SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just so everyone knows. I'm not a huge drinker. I like my beer every now and then and have gone out with my co workers a couple of times a year. Never gone out and gotten drunk without the wife and never spoken to women I didn't work with. I was kind of shocked when they approached me. I thought I was giving off a I want to be left alone vibe, not a hey I want to cheat on my wife one. Guess I'm gonna have to work on that. I'm definitely not planning on going out again.

I was kind of shocked when they approached me. I thought I was giving off a I want to be left alone vibe, not a hey I want to cheat on my wife one.

Lol, *blood in the water*. You're wounded. You've just met the female versions of Knights In Shining Armor and predators. It will happen again.

" What your wife doesn't know won't hurt her."

Is this the first time you've been an instructor? Anytime training/instruction takes place over an hour from home, the low boundary folks seem to take advantage of the *What happens here stays here" meme.

To tell you the truth that really pissed me off. I said "maybe she wouldn't know. But I would. "

Damn, you make me proud to be a man. WTG bro.

Strength

Sorry for the continuous posts. Just frustrated and can't sleep. I forgot to comment on moving out. To be honest I don't want to leave my home. I didn't cheat and crap on my marriage. She did. I wouldn't throw her out. She can take the kids and stay with her parents. Not ideal I know. I would rather the kids stay home but with me working that is difficult. WW hasn't had to work since we were married. I know being a SAHM is a job, but it doesn't require making arrangements for child care.

OKnow your absolutely right. This mess has ruined my marriage and changed me greatly. I'm not so sure WW is going to like the new me or what needs to happen for a new marriage.

5454. No not the first time instructing or away from home. In the past I would just stay in the hotel and call home. This time I'm kind of doing a modified 180. Not calling home and telling WW every detail of my day. Just calling to talk to the kids. WW gets I'll call tommorrow, going out with the guys. Let her sweat a little bit. If she caves and does something stupid, oh well she was warned.

My FWH doesn't like the new me; too independent and not in the least submissive. I put him on a pedestal before the affair but I pulled away after; started building protective walls I suppose. All I know is I won't be that vunerable again.

I think your wife hinted why she was unfaithful when she admitted the sex was good and fulfilled hidden needs. She was hit on by the OM and tempted by the idea of a short, exciting sexual affair. Ramped up some temporary anger/resentment to make it easier to cheat, then went for it, never intending for you to find out.

She probably would have continued the affair for a few weeks to milk every drop of sexual interest, then ended it. She would then turn off the resentment and start being nice to you again. Back to being a respectable married woman with three young children. An exercise in selfishness, but not uncommon given the present day temptations of Facebook, Ashley Madison etc.

The affair would also settle past grudges she has with you; pretty common in most marriages. She got to 'balance' things, so as to speak and you would never know about it. Very convenient revenge without any pain on both sides.

Just didn't work out the way she planned; now she has a nightmare to deal with.

I think your wife hinted why she was unfaithful when she admitted the sex was good and fulfilled hidden needs. She was hit on by the OM and tempted by the idea of a short, exciting sexual affair. Ramped up some temporary anger/resentment to make it easier to cheat, then went for it, never intending for you to find out.

She probably would have continued the affair for a few weeks to milk every drop of sexual interest, then ended it. She would then turn off the resentment and start being nice to you again. Back to being a respectable married woman with three young children. An exercise in selfishness, but not uncommon given the present day temptations of Facebook, Ashley Madison etc.

The affair would also settle past grudges she has with you; pretty common in most marriages. She got to 'balance' things, so as to speak and you would never know about it. Very convenient revenge without any pain on both sides.

Just didn't work out the way she planned; now she has a nightmare to deal with.

I believe this theory, also. Your WW may not even grasp this yet, but I would not be surprised if she "gets it" real soon...if not already.

And that is where she has to focus---on everything that led up to the affair: the sexual curiosity; the allowed flattery and moves by the OM; her interest in the OM, and her perceived resentment towards you. She has plenty of work ahead of herself. But, if she does put in the effort, I would be surprised if you didn't find yourself starting to feel a little more "normal".

It is all part of the rebuilding process.

Swat, do you think your wife could have set up those women to hit on you?

(not implying that they wouldn't otherwise, but...with all the other conscience attempts from WW to play this A outcome)

A bunch of gorgeous 20/30-somethings, most of whom were wearing rings, completely aggressive and even that stupid "what you wife won't know" line. So, most of them committed, gorgeous, and looking for an A. Am I reading that right? Totally possible, but I'm a suspicious person.

I'm sure it's what 5454 said though, blood in the water.

But well I thought I'd give you the benefit of my devious mind and wild imagination and throw that out there. I gotta admit I've had more than one gf suggest something similar to catch a guy cheating.

Swat, do you think your wife could have set up those women to hit on you?

... or your favorite best friend OM ?

Unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past a scumbag like that.

Most likely, you ended up in a bar with people that have fallen for the miserable Hollywood version of marriage being sold to the masses. Decency, honor, commitment, and self respect are relics it seems.

[This message edited by twisted at 8:40 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]

SWAT,

You ask what we reading your situation think about your WW and whether she “gets it”.

Well… I think she’s showing positive signs.

SWAT – I guess my view on how to deal with situations like yours are not necessarily in line with what many suggest. That’s OK – there is no black and white here and nobody should (nor could) claim to have the perfect solution.

I think one of the main reasons we are so mixed up after discovering infidelity is because we aren’t expecting it… We can’t prepare (and maybe we shouldn’t). So try substituting infidelity with another trauma, one we might be better able to relate to.

Imagine you wake up and your house is on fire… (I think I used this simile in my first post to you but bear with me…)

You can’t just lie there looking at the flames and mutter how unjust the situation is. You can’t tell yourself that since it was your wife that left the stove on and thereby caused the fire then she should call 911. You can’t save one child and then expect the wife to save the other. You can’t get half your valuables out and then sit down and pout while your wife tries to get the other half…

What you can do is evaluate whether the fire destroys the foundations of your house or whether you can rebuild.

I am one of those that think infidelity DEMANDS we act. It DEMANDS we decide. Just like the fire demands we wake up, get everyone out, get help, extinguish the flames and save what valuables we can… The tricky part is evaluating what decisions are reversible and what decisions aren’t.

I think the big issue is evaluating what we need and what we want and is attainable and then acting to reach a goal. OK – I can understand that you aren’t clear on what you want. But then you have to think: Is my indecisiveness good for me and those that depend on me? (In your case your children). Are my actions today helping in moving out of infidelity?

OK – I want to be very clear on one issue: IMHO infidelity can only end in two “positive” ways. Divorce or reconciliation. Unfortunately the third path is the one most chosen: a situation where the underlying issues aren’t dealt with and both partners learn to live with the big elephant being dragged around in the marriage.

SWAT – If you truly feel that you can’t learn to live with the fact your WW cheated and will always see her as an adulteress… Then there is no way you can ever regain or recreate a true marriage. File.

If however you think you COULD get pass these issues and IF you are willing to try… Then start reconciliation. Personally I think this is where you are at. And frankly I am not sure shunning her, ignoring her, not responding to her, an unclear and undefined separation… none of those are beneficial for reconciliation.

In an older post you say (when told OM had been in touch) that you told your wife:

My reply was this is your mess. You fix it.

SWAT – IMHO that would ONLY apply if you have already checked out of the marriage.

The mind-boggling, ground-shattering fact about reconciliation is that you are reconciling with the CAUSE of your issues.

The “mess” your wife dropped you into – as long as you are married and plan on reconciling – that is the marriages mess and thereby YOUR mess. YOU and WIFE need to handle OM being in contact IF you are still in the marriage.

And SWAT – Like I have already said there are many different suggestions on how to deal with infidelity – but I don’t think it’s your prerogative or role to dish out punishment to your wife. To start off with: What the hell is appropriate punishment for infidelity? I can’t think of any.

SWAT – Maybe the only time I was ever in a law-enforcement situation I felt I didn’t control was when I had a short-term partner that allowed a situation to escalate. He had a couple of years’ experience on me and therefore the lead-officer in dealing with some amphetamine-cooked gang members. I saw he was dealing wrongly with them and a tense situation was escalating into what could turn into a physically dangerous situation. When he had lost complete control and a couple of the guys more or less cornered him up against a wall I didn’t say “this is your mess. You fix it”. I stepped in, defused the situation and solved the problem. That SWAT is what your marriage needs.

This site was founded by a couple that reconciled after infidelity. Some of the admins and moderators are reconciled as BS or WS. I think all of them wanted their WS to suffer but I also venture that none of them really saw or had any benefit from it. I would hope that every now and then a reconciled BS looks at his/her spouse and thinks “thank God I managed to get over my initial reactions and work things out”. I would hope a reconciled WS looks at his/her spouse and thinks “Thank God we managed to put the work into being where we are and I hope I can someday forgive myself for my affair”.

And SWAT – I don’t see your wife as a super-manipulative, Machiavellian sex fiend. I see her as a super-confused and worried woman who does not have the benefit of a sounding board like SI…

Her anger and worried after your day away… Well SWAT; you are in a profession with a higher than average suicide rate, a macho society where your manhood might be seen as having been subject to shame, a society where guns are aplenty (and yes SWAT – I sucked my barrel and thought about it…). She is probably just as confused as you are, possibly even more so.

I won’t EVER excuse her affair and it will ALWAYS be her fault – her decision. But it really sounds as if OM saw a crack and pounced on it. Should she have allowed it? NO WAY.

I want to leave you with this one task; one exercise:

Sit down and THINK. Do I want to be married to this woman?

Don’t think “do I want this marriage” or “can I forgive her”. Only think “Do I want to be married with this woman”.

Whatever “marriage” comes out of R will be a completely new one IF YOU RECONCILE.

If however you come to the conclusion that you don’t want to be married to her… well… tell her so. And then start work on emotionally, physically and financially separating.

Come on...I sure hope no one put those women up to it. Massive blow to the ego. I don't believe that is possible. I've never been to the place before, it's fairly new. Retired cop opened it last summer and I was still in no condition to go out after my surgery. The bar is about an hour from where I live so not a likely place for me to go, besides I'm not really one to go out without the wife. Work functions sometimes, but wife would get an invite and was usually home within an hour.

Bigger...Thank you for your post. Everyone is different and they deal with problems differently. I've always been the fixer, you have a problem. I'll do my best to fix it. I've been the strong one for many of my friends, family and co workers. But I can't fix this and that hurts me. It just seems the biggest challenge of my life and I'm failing. To answer your question or really MY question....yes I want to be married to my wife. I just don't know if I can. Does that make any sense? I love her more than anything and she has done so much improving. I think she is either on this site or one like it. WW is trying and I know she is getting IC and wants us to start MC. I see this and love her for it, but then "slap" I remember. I don't even get angry just sad. I know I'm better than this. I know I'm better than OM. I just can't remember that all of the time. I'm hoping I can get to the point where I can. Because I don't want to hurt my wife or my family. I get some people feel I'm punishing her and maybe deep down I am.

I have an IC appointment tommorrow so maybe we can figure some things out.

I know I'm better than this. I know I'm better than OM.

Damn right bro.

I am going to follow up on Bigger's last post. I strongly agree with what he has told you. Look at the (limited) history I have posted and you will see I have been thru all of this a long time ago. Doesn't necessarily make me wise, but it gives me the perspective of that time can provide. From that perspective I want to offer a few thoughts.

Moving out of the house AT THIS POINT is a mistake. Maybe 3 or 6 months from now things will have deteriorated to where it makes sense. But right now it can only be detrimental. I say that because: Bigger is correct that your W is showing many positive signs. She seems to be truly remorseful; to really "get it" as to the devastation she has caused; to be committed to do anything and everything possible to help you and the marriage heal; and, perhaps most important, to truly love you. OK, so maybe she is able to fake all of that and none of it is true. The only way you are going to know is to observe her actions and to interact with her on a daily basis. To see if they remain constant and consistent. If she has the staying power and determination that can only come from her words being honest. You can't see that; feel it; sense it in your gut; if you live separately. If you live separately the paranoia, anger, bitterness and sadness will be able to take hold and, potentially, blind you to making a realistic assessment of her efforts and her sincerity.

True, living at home will have its own burdens, seeing her all evening can trigger emotions too. But IF you think you might want to R, you are going to have to learn how to start dealing with those emotions and triggers that proximity to her brings.

Bigger is correct that if you KNOW - for a fact, for sure - that this has been a dealbreaker, then separate and begin building your new life. But if you are thinking you still would like to try to rebuild -- that can best be done by being at home. By watching and evaluating her efforts. By starting the process of learning how to handle your emotions. And by allowing her efforts to heal you into your heart.

The brutal truth is that R may be the hardest task you will ever undertake. There truly is a roller coaster ride in it and the coaster will make some trips down thru hell as well as to the mountain top before you can get off. I have ridden it. I Learned a lot along the way. About life. About my W. About myself. I learned that the world is not the black and white, a person is either good or bad that I assumed before her A. I learned that I am not perfect and that I am stronger than I thought. I learned that she is not perfect (duh!) like I had believed. But also that she is not evil. I learned how screwed up she became in her thinking and how selfish in her approach to life and how that led to the A. And I have seen how deeply she now grieves for the damage and pain she caused. And I have seen and felt her love now. And I have seen and felt and learned so much more.

And the point?? The point is it took time. A lot of time. And a lot of patience. And strength. That is what it will take for you.

You said you are by nature a "fixer". So am I. So you will get frustrated. That healing doesn't happen over a week or a month or even a year. That there will be set backs here and there. In your healing. In her actions. Because we are human and we get tired or discouraged sometimes. But over time, if she stays true to her assertions of wanting to do everything right and if you really want to R, over time you will find real closeness, real love returning.

Some truths/warnings to answer some questions you are asking yourself. Will you ever be able to forget. No. But you will learn how to make it just an unhappy past memory that can be shunted aside while you move along with living your life with your kids and your W. If you have a horrible accident with bad injuries but you recover --- you won't forget the accident but you won't let it control the rest of your life.

Will you, even in the future have a bad hour or afternoon or day every once in a while? Maybe. Look, the truth is that this has changed you and changed your life forever. So there will always be a fleeting thought here and there. But I can tell you that it is possible to get your life back; your marriage and your family life. I did. Yeah, it was hard and took a lot of work and time. But I always loved my W and now we are closing in on retirement -- together. With kids that grew up in an intact house and, now, grandkids.

Sorry if this is rambling but I wanted you to know that there truly is such a thing as R and that it truly is possible to emerge on the other side of the shitstorm you are in now. But to get there you have to be prepared to give it a chance; to give your W a chance to prove to you that she can and will do everything possible to make your life happy again.

If you ever want to talk or just vent, PM me.

Good luck. I hope you find peace.

[This message edited by 1985 at 11:54 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]

1985 and Bigger

Thank you both. Actually thank you everyone. I'm speechless right now.

Come on...I sure hope no one put those women up to it. Massive blow to the ego

So sorry Swat!! That's not what I meant.

I'll be honest, I am in the camp of having little trust in your WW. So consider me on the dark side in my opinions?? I admit I'm one jaded girl at the moment, and it pours into my view of everything, sorry.

For what it's worth, my exWH sent his lay-of-the-month to try to come on to my current husband when we first started dating. yeah, ex cheated on me, and then didn't want me moving on. Luckily for current husband he told me about the encounter, and long story short by description, timing, her car, a few things my ex had said, etc it was clear who it was and what was going on. As crazy as that sounds, it was typical of my ex's manipulation.

People are such jerks,

And, to be honest, it made me really sad that those women wearing rings were out affair fishing, probably while some poor guy was waiting at home. A part of me wanted to convince myself that people aren't just that terrible, all the time, everywhere it seems. But they are.

Best of luck Swat.

SWAT

You a fixer? I can understand that. I guess I’m one too. I’m the guy that goes and gets the owed pay for my brother’s daughter when her sleazy coffee-house boss stiffed her. I’m the guy that people call when they have an issue they need dealt with. Heck – for years I have volunteered in a program that helps young recovering addicts get back on their feet. As a past-time I call banks and negotiate payment plans… So I get the fixer mentality. I have it.

I have this theory and both my personal experience and what I have heard others say sort of supports the theory: When faced with an extremely dire and hard choice you feel a sense of relief and purpose once you reach a decision. It’s like a feeling of inevitability that also fills you with a sense of purpose. I once listened to that guy who got caught under a boulder in Utah and had to saw off his hand. He described the very same feeling; once he decided and committed to sawing off his hand he felt fine with the idea. I felt the same when I walked in on my fiancé. I knew right away that I did not want to reconcile. I was totally comfortable with that idea.

Research shows that the majority of people that divorce regret the decision 12 months later and/or acknowledge that they could have solved their problems. I just don’t want you in that statistical group. I just have this feeling based on what I have read from you that you would want to reconcile – but you just don’t have a clue how to do so – how to control it – how to fix it.

Let me suggest this beginning: Try to view your wife as two different people: W and WW. The WW is the one that had the affair. She’s the one that is going to “explain” why she had to have the affair and give all the reasons and excuses. Then there is the W. She’s the one you want. Exorcise the WW out of your W.

Don’t see this as an argument or competition.

Tell your wife that you want to reconcile. But also tell her about your doubts and worries. Be totally open and honest about how you wonder if she has the ability to work on this and if she really gets the extend of the damage done. Reach a compromise where she commits to patience and transparency for the next 2-3 weeks and you commit to calming down, not doing anything stoopid and not committing to a divorce.

That’s it. Buy some time to simply not have to worry. Time to calm down, find a good MC, get back into routine and gather strength to deal with the marathon ahead.

Finally: I totally get what OutoftheDeep is saying. As a LEO SWAT has probably encountered that nice person that turns out to be a back-stabbing maniac. So yes – there is always a chance that WW surpasses W and that WW eventually becomes your wife’s dominating personality.

I'm pretty sure you will end up reconciling, but I put a lot more stress on the why she cheated. You yourself have a lot to offer as a husband. You are honest, moral, a great father and you have kept yourself fit and more than presentable. If you don't mind me saying, a heck of a catch.

You have stated that you could never cheat on your wife, but she did; BJ's, penetrative sex the lot. Also it is possible a condom was not used. Whats the difference between you and her? Why do you hold fidelity as precious and she doesn't?

Since you are a first-rate husband and your wife had no intention of ever permanently swapping you for the OM, why the hell did she cheat? Because she is selfish, and obsessed with her own needs. This is not going to go away when you reconcile, neither is the loss of respect for her. You will have to accept that your wife is flawed in a really unpleasant way; sort of, fuck you I come first philosophy. This is part of her personality and will predispose her to adultery given her obsession with her own needs.

Thats why you have to make this turmoil in your marriage really painful for her as well as you. Either that or you are always going to wonder what she's doing when you are away on business. Will the OM get to enjoy your wife again? Right now I don't think you could guarantee that he won't, or a least some other guy. It like a virginity lost. She has cheated once [maybe more than once]; there is less of a bridge to cross doing it a second time.

She screwed up your marriage and all she can think about is avoiding the consequences. Some posters are virtually advocating letting her off easy. That would be a mistake.

I want to do a brief follow up. You still love your W. You still want to be married to her. That was me also.

You say you just want to "fix" the situation but you don't know how. And what is going unsaid is that you have this sense of despair that if you can't figure out how to fix it -- then there is no hope and you might as well give up. I have been there. As have about every Betrayed Spouse on SI.

The truth is you can't "fix it" in the way you are used to fixing things. Where you come up with a solution that you then activate and which makes the problem disappear.

That kind of "fix" here would look like what? That you learn that there really was never any physical contact; and that she really couldn't stand OM and never said nice things to him; and that it all is just a big misunderstanding. That would be a fix. But you know that won't happen and so you feel hopeless/helpless because how do you fix that your W had sex with another man while you were out working? That she ---- as you put it, let another man be inside of her. And gave away what was supposed to be special between just the two of you. SWAT, I have BTDT as so many others here have.

The key is coming to the realization that YOU cannot, by yourself, fix this. You can't. And so long as you view it in terms of "I can't fix this so my marriage is over" you will never be able to move towards R. You have to accept that fixing requires tremendous effort from both you and your W. And in fact, your W has to pull the true laboring oar. SHE has to be the fixer. And she has to demonstrate to you every day that she is dedicated, determined and dead serious about fixing it no matter how much effort it takes. And you? You have to give her the chance to show you and prove to you. You have to be prepared, after a while and when she has shown you enough to develop credibility, to open your heart back up. To take the risk of committing yourself back to the marriage. To show her that you do still love her despite what she has put you through. That is your part of fixing. But it comes down the road a ways. She has to be the fixer first.

I have followed you from the start. It sounds like she is trying to be the fixer that she needs to be. So step back and watch. See if your intellect and your gut can, over time, believe her; trust her at least a reasonable amount. And don't obsess over your need to immediately fix. This takes time to get to the point where you will feel safe enough to let her back in to your heart. And it circles me back to my first post. Separating at this point will seriously impair the process.

I know you mentioned that maybe subconsciously separating was a form of punishment to her. I get it. We all have had, at different times, the urge to punish. The need to make her feel at least a small fraction of the pain we have. And certainly it would be deserved. The problem is that IF you want to R, punishment does not help the process and in fact probably delays it. One thing you will see in the postings of many Betrayed Spouses is anguish over the feeling of unfairness. The lack of justice or consequences for the cheater. And it is true that if you choose to R, there is some fundamental unfairness there. So, I mentioned that your life has changed forever. Part of the change is that you have to learn to accept that unfairness has occurred and will just be a part of your history. Life can be unfair. Yours has been. And the sad fact is that you just have to accept it, swallow it, and move ahead if you want to R. In the long course of the rest of your life, if your W becomes again the woman you believed her to be at your wedding, the joy you will experience will way surpass the unfairness.

Again, I hope you find peace.

The fixer thing...

This is an interesting and valid perspective going on here. But one I totally don't see through my eyes.

The marriage was killed, murdered, by your WW. It's dead. Nothing dead can be fixed. The only thing that can be done with a dead thing, is to grieve it properly, and accept that it is gone. A new marriage must be created.

Fixing I don't get. Solutions and problem solving and creation, I understand. I also, am one of those people who can deal beautifully with someone else's crisis. I'm a rock, I'm clear, I'm invigorated by the honor of the responsibility, and I am relentless in applying my intelligence to finding a way through whatever is going on. Funny though, I've never thought of it as "fixing". My own problems, however? It's totally different for me. I'm emotional, I'm unclear, I doubt myself, I'm fearful.

Of course, a new marriage would be built out of the same two people. With old memories, and familiarities and habits. So there would be remnants of the old marriage. But to resurrect a marriage destroyed in such a fashion as this....this just isn't how I see things.

This is not a disagreement, but rather a different perspective for you.

There's also the point brought up of the character codes of two people being completely incompatible. This is intriguing, and has caused me some thought toward my own situation. What is the outcome if it is simply that: the WS code of character and honor is simply not as important to them as it is to the BS, or their code is even nonexistent?

ETA: I'm not attempting to threadjack with these observations and questions. If they don't apply to YOU, Swat, don't get distracted by them

[This message edited by OutoftheDeep at 2:09 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)]

I would do what feels most comfortable to you in regards to a separation situation (you moving out vs WW moving out)...

But protect yourself and your kids legally if you decide to be the one to move out, even if it is a temporary separation..

And know that with the passage of enough time you will be a lot more clear on whether you will want R or D...I promise you..

The issue that a lot of people contend with is that once they know what they want, especially if it is a D, they have a lot of difficulty in implementing the decision if they haven't an exit plan in place...

So while you are still in a limbo or holding pattern which may last a long time, get your legal and financial ducks in a row and continue to focus on your own growth/ strength and that of your kiddos...

IMHO, having your ducks exactly where you want them will buy you time..The time you need to let life unfold while watching the consistency of your wife's actions..

I think this is excellent, diva nails it, and at the same time, you get to 'keep busy'

The issue that a lot of people contend with is that once they know what they want, especially if it is a D, they have a lot of difficulty in implementing the decision if they haven't an exit plan in place...

So while you are still in a limbo or holding pattern which may last a long time, get your legal and financial ducks in a row and continue to focus on your own growth/ strength and that of your kiddos...

IMHO, having your ducks exactly where you want them will buy you time..The time you need to let life unfold while watching the consistency of your wife's actions..