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WW took a deep breath and looked me in the eyes. She said her and OM went on less than ten dates and had barely started a sexual relationship. WW said they had "made out" and had sex one time before I returned home. WW stated OM was very aggressive and seemed to like "causing her discomfort and some pain". She did not like this at the time and ended it with OM. Less than a week later I asked her out and the rest is history. WW said that at he time she was so happy that I seemed to want her and I treated her so well. WW stated that over time she began to feel like she did not deserve being treated well. She could not pin point exactly what made her feel this way but said it happened after our second child was born. WW said the feeling kept getting worse and then she got pregnant again with our third child. While he is loved and a blessing, he was not planned. I was supposed to get some...ah hum surgery, but there was a family planning accident and you all can guess. WW had not gotten back her figure and this may have added to her depression.

Fast forward to affair time. WW was angry and depressed. When OM played his little game she did not really fight it to hard. WW admitted she was curious and felt she wanted to be "punished" so OM was the logical choice on her mind. WW said while she regrets what happened she can not blame anyone but herself. WW said she was upset with me over the extra OT and me spending most of my free time with the family and not her. I took exception to this as she is the one always asking it there was OT for me to work. (Just like everyone else money is tight) Cops don't do the job to get rich. WW said she knew that and in her mind understood it, but still resented it. WW said the affair ended the day I was hospitalized. I believe her since the text messages and emails I read back this up. WW admitted she went to OM voluntarily and feels she deserves my anger. WW asked me to forgive her and wanted to know if we could ever possibly stay married. I told her I did forgive her but I just didn't know if I could get past the cheating. WW told me she has sent OM a NC letter, which she sent without me asking and showed me a copy of the letter. No feeling or sappy words. Just "You where once a friend of my family and deaf husband. You made it possible to destroy the best thing that ever happened to me, my marriage to the best man I ever knew. I will never speak to you again do not contact me in anyway. Any further contact from you will result in me contacting the police." I have to say I ...

Your wife minimized her relationship with OM. You have known her for this long and never knew she had a relationship with this guy. Her first statements to you about the 'revenge affair' are contradicted in what she says here.

Her NC letter was good, glad she kept a copy for you to read because it made you feel so good (her intent). Are you sure she sent it?

What OK now said prior to this post is spot on to how I feel..

Accomplishing R that is healthy for both of you is very difficult..

You will have massive resentment towards your WW to deal with and overcome..How are you gonna know her true motives..Does she want R because she is afraid to give up stability and the comforts of home? All questions that need honest answers..

For some the resentment in the affair aftermath is a deal breaker..Especially if one has had a difficult marriage prior to D day happening..

Do lots of soul searching, talk to a GOOD counselor or impartial friend..Don't be surprised is you find that blood is thicker than water as time goes on..

Sending you strength...

Bigger, I got the same speech eons ago when I was a rookie as well. I have since relayed the same information as well. maybe with a little more colorful language. I also always likes the saying there are three sides to every story, he said, she said and the truth

I agree with everyone who says WW is lying about this, she choose to do this and use the excuse that she believed him. I told her that is not true, she wanted to F him and she did. Of course she originally tried to deny it. But when confronted with the fact she never told me she had a prior relationship with someone who was one of my best friends. I am hurt and angry at WW, what she did, what she has done to my plans, what she has done to our family. WW says she understands and wants to do what ever she can to fix this.

WW has her entire family, while they do love me and support me they are her family first, I'm the interloper there. I have no brothers or sisters, parents and grandparents are gone. Aunts, uncles and cousins are hours away. I do speak with IC through EAP and it helps. IC has asked me if I want to stay in the marriage for love or am I afraid the be alone at this point in my life. The sad part is, I'm not sure. I do love my WW and my family, but she has done something that is the polar opposite of my beliefs and character. I've made mistakes in my marriage, I've screwed up a bunch of times. When I noticed she was depressed some times, I should have pushed harder to find out the problems. When she would ignore me, I should have tried harder to get her to talk. I know the affair isn't my fault. She choose to do this, I had no part in her decision.

I never intentionally hurt my wife and was always faithful. I waited a long time to get married, I wanted to do it right. I tried to be the best husband I could be, to bad it wasn't enough for WW.

I just realized something, part of my problem is I have no control. I've always had control. Dealing with people on the street, I take control. I had not control of what WW did, and maybe I just don't know how to deal with that.

I'm not a control freak by any means, I'm just saying I can usually control what is going on around me and in my life. I've done what I can to take care of myself, I'm eating alright and working out like a maniac. Lost some weight, didn't have a whole lot to lose, but hey it happens and now I fit in all of my older clothes and uniforms.

I just realized something, part of my problem is I have no control. I've always had control.

We "thought" we had control until we realized we never really had it. I, too, thought I had control until D-day opened my eyes. I then realized that we don't truly have control over anyone's actions. If they want to up and leave, they can. It's quite eye-opening to say the least.

Sorry that you're here, Swat. This site is a godsend! Keep coming back here for support.

(((HUG)))

I told her that is not true, she wanted to F him and she did.

Chances are that‘s not correct.

As a rule affairs tend to be about power and validation. For men getting a woman to accept sex tends to be the affirmation of power. For a woman sex tends to be the price for the validation the man offers in exchange for sex.

Sort of “I must be hot because he’s offering me all this attention. That attention feels good… I want more of that… Oh No! He’s losing interest… Better offer some sex…”

And about control… You have more control than you think buddy.

If nothing else then grasp the issues you can control the impact on and act on them.

Bigger, I understand what you are saying. I guess what I meant to say was, she didn't want MY attention or interest anymore. WW wanted his so she went for it.

I'm working on me and spending as much time as I can with my kids right now, that I can control. I want to thank you, you've pointed out something to me. I'm being too trusting of WW, I'm believing what she says. I do think she is remorseful, I do believe she loves me. While her actions showed she was selfish and wanted to hurt me. I'm a "fixer", I want to fix this and it is causing me to accept things that can't be proved yet. Another thing that goes against my nature.

I guess I'll just have to see what the next several months bring and how she acts. WW did start IC, I'm not sure if I mentioned that before. I guess only time will tell whether or not this can be salvaged.

The reason your WW is coming up with these varied excuses about why she decided to cheat is to avoid the bald and naked truth. She did it because she wanted to. Little to do with you, except for not respecting you and taking you for granted; more a case of wanting an affair for the sheer attention and excitement. The validation turned her on. Desired and f*cked by two men.

If she was honest and told you this, then from her perspective you would never trust her again. What about the next guy and his sweet, tempting validation? Also if she capriciously acts on her desires why can't you?

Hence her refusal to tell you she cheated because she felt like it. She must trot out an excuse[s] to avoid the horrifying conclusion, that she is a wife that can never be trusted because she screws guys she fancies and therefore she can't complain if you do likewise. Loyal, faithful soul mates don't coldly and casually f*ck other men because they just plain want to. She needs to project an image of a caring, family oriented wife and will fabricate any excuse that fits that image.

I guess what I meant to say was, she didn't want MY attention or interest anymore

Disagree. Your attention and interest were taken for granted. No longer had any value to her. Up to her to determine why that is.

I do think she is remorseful, I do believe she loves me.

Remorse can only be shown through time and actions. My FWW gave me the *snot bubbling, mascara running "I'm sorries"* immediately after D-Day. True remorse, 8 months later.

Did you go to a debriefing? Little concerned for you.

Strength

I'm actually doing alright. I saw IC today and we talked about everything under the sun. I kinda feel like she's the rock star of IC.

I had written a fairly lengthy post, go figure. I erased it because I can sum up how I feel right now in one sentence. "I really don't give a flying f@ck right now." WW can go f@ck off right now.

I guess I'm and angry elf this very early morning. But will probably change my mind two hours from now. I apologize to everyone for being all I've the place. Hopefully I can really stick to the 180, while teaching the next couple of weeks. I'll be a few hours away so no commute. My plane is to face time with the kids and try to stick with the 180 with WW.

The 180 is not as easy as it sounds. I look at my wife and see the woman I fell in love with. But that woman would not have done this, right? What did WW do with the woman I fell in love with?

She lost sight of her, and you and her family.

I hope she can find herself soon before she actually loses you for good.

Keep strong

(((Hugs)))

Never apologize about being all over the place emotionally at this point. This is still too raw, and the mind racing at 150MPH is completely normal.

The 180 can be a challenge, but stick to it. It will help keep you grounded. It was a source of freedom for me.

Just to add a couple of things.

Your statement that your WW wanted to f... the OM, so she did---is in my opinion, correct.

Bigger's statement that she didn't necessarily want to f... him, but sought out the validation, in my opinion, is also correct.

The truth is, she sought attention, and KNEW that sex was a very high possibility...and yet still pursued such. Only your WW can really answer if she pursued the sex, or just the validation.

I look at my wife and see the woman I fell in love with. But that woman would not have done this, right? What did WW do with the woman I fell in love with?

This is the tough part to accept: no matter how much pain that we have incurred, we as betrayed spouses do not understand how much they have betrayed themselves.

Think about it---she debased herself for someone else. How will she ever explain that to her children? How could she have gone so low, that she was to damage her soul? She doesn't get a do-over; she has to go on, and try to be the best person that she can be. But no matter how well she adjusts in the future, this dark time will always be a part of her life--a dirty fling that compromised everything that was good in her life. That is a heavy burden to wear.

By no means am I sympathizing with your WW. I am just reminding you to look at her this way, when you know that she is trying hard to better herself.

SWAT,

I am very goal oriented. See my tagline? I truly believe in it;

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."

OK – So you didn’t chose to have your WW have an affair. I get that. You don’t chose to be all mixed up about it. I also get that. But in my life – when I encounter traumatic moments – I tend to evaluate my options, decide and implement. I’m totally unafraid to reevaluate and change my decision, but I try to keep on a steady, constant path out of the shithole I have been dropped in.

It’s sort of like if you imagine being on a boat that sinks in the middle of a large lake. You can tread water and drown or you can swim east because you evaluate that’s the shortest route to land. Swimming half a mile east, then one mile west, then one mile east… that’s not going to get you anywhere positive. It’s OK to head north because you see a reef that’s closer than shore. It’s OK to stop swimming to rest for a minute. But you constantly evaluate, decide and implement.

I also think we know when a marriage is over. I think one experiences a feeling of acceptance. Frankly I’m not sure you are there yet…

So my advice is going to be based on how to reconcile with your wife…

About your wife… I’ve referred a bit to our LEO training and background. Like me you must have arrested a bunch of people. You know you have basically two groups; the group that doesn’t give a shit, are totally unafraid, feel no remorse or shame… and then the group of frightened, ashamed people. As a rule you see the former several times over the years, the later tend to be one-time criminals.

And you tend to treat these people in as neutral and professional way as you can. It’s not our job to judge or carry out punishment so you listen to their excuses, gather their stories and do the report. So even if I do have a feeling OM saw a weakness and pursued it then I am not in any way diminishing the simple fact she had an affair.

I see most WS in the latter group. That’s where I would place your wife; a one-time criminal who might learn from this experience and change her ways. Granted if your examination of your children’s paternity shows differently I would change my mind but based on what you have posted so far I think this is a one off event.

The 180 is a mantra here on SI and it’s an extremely good and useful tool.

But…

It’s not necessarily the best tool if you have a spouse that wants to reconcile…

So I’m going to suggest you use parts of it but do some other things that are not necessarily in line with the 180…

OK – First of all. I’m all for mission statements. I believe in the spoken word and in clear and direct commands. I think it’s to everyone’s benefit that the goal is clear. So I would start by letting your wife know that she is totally free to do whatever she wants… but not as your wife.

So if she wants “freedom”, external validation, unlimited sex-life, more exciting dates, taller guys, and shorter guys… whatever… then she is totally free to go out and do whatever she wants. But if she is going to do ANYTHING that is outside the perceived definition of “marriage”… then by doing any of those things she’s telling you she does not want to be married.

You also tell her that until and unless she clearly tells you she wants the marriage then you simply assume she doesn’t want the marriage and will behave accordingly.

No threats, no screaming. No talk about throwing her out or not being able to afford divorce. It’s really simple: if she isn’t willing to accept with a free will to be in a marriage the only logical option left is ending the marriage. How to do that is simply a task.

BUT… IF she tells you she wants the marriage…. Then you two have to decide the next steps.

It’s OK for you to tell her that you are having a hard time accepting reconciliation. It’s OK to tell her that this will take months or even years. It’s OK to tell her that you are totally messed up about feeling desire, wanting solace and seeking warmth and support from the very person that placed you in this emotional hell-hole.

You two then discuss HOW you can progress. Some suggestions:

How can she assure you and show you with actions that it’s over. How can she be accountable?

Both commit to IC

MC with an MC that has experience with infidelity and is pro-marriage.

Total honesty. Find a way to communicate without anger and repercussion where she can tell you all you need to know.

Talk about how it’s OK to feel anger and sadness towards each other.

Date nights? IF she commits to the marriage then consider creating days or evenings where you two spend time together with no reference to the infidelity. It will feel strained at first and it does not have to be the classic dinner and a movie. Just time you two spend in each other’s company doing something other than talk and think about the affair.

SWAT – Trying to reestablish love and a relationship with your wife is not a sign of weakness. Nor is it a sign of condoning the affair. No matter how your relationship develops it’s more or less inevitable that the affair will always be seen in a negative light. But IMHO the most common way of “recovery” from infidelity is also the absolute worst form of recovery: That’s where the issues are ignored and after a couple of weeks of sleeping on the couch the couple find a way to coexist WITHOUT dealing with the issues. Please don’t fall into that trap.

I know what you mean about the no control thing..

You hit the nail squarely on the head..No one has control over whether or not a person near and dear to him her is gonna make the choice to lie/cheat..

It sucks to be the person who is suffering the loss ..After some sympathy is expressed, the people who aren't our true friends avoid us like the plague.

These superficial people tend to treat us like we are contagious..The reason why is because they have a fear of being triggered into sadness.. They don't want to be reminded that someday they will go thru a tough time of some sort..NO ONE has complete control over when bad things will happen to him or her...

Infidelity is one of those extremely traumatic life changing events that we have no control over..

We don't have control over how another person chooses to cope with life...

Influence maybe, control no.....

Some people cope with life by overworking, overeating, drinking too much alcohol, doing drugs, having affairs..

IMHO all we can do is trust ourselves in how we will react to the evil stuff that the world dishes out to us.....We can learn to enjoy our own company... Cultivate the ability and desire to make new friends as often as we want..Enjoying our own company and our friends company won't make us immune from any evil that comes our way, but it sure serves as a good buffer..

Focus on who you were before you assumed the role of husband..Was there a part of yourself that you were asked to sacrifice in order to make your marriage smooth sailing ? For instance did you give up touring in a band, or training for olympic swimming? Maybe it is time to pick up some of the things you used to like doing but gave up...

Having your own life in art, music or athletics is a solace in distraction whenever you need it..

A good way to cope and to survive the bad things that we have no control over is to reach out.. Reaching out to others will help us to learn or relearn the things that we need to know to heal and thrive..

I am glad that you are reaching out to us.....

Putting the focus on you and your healing will serve you well whether R or D..

You don't have to make any commitments to stay M or to D at this point unless you feel that you are ready to..

As long as you are PROTECTED legally and financially, you may have the luxury of letting time unfold to give you greater clarity into your own feelings and your wife's behavior (remorse, truthfulness) over the long term..

If your wife is remorseful she won't demand any commitment from you to stay or go .. She will understand and accept being in limbo for the foreseeable future.. She will patiently wait for you to move forward in one way or another..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 7:04 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

^^^what Bigger said.

I should read Bigger weekly, like a refresher course.

Swat

Bigger is right on the money.

But I will reiterate one crucial pint.

Your wife needs a good shrink.

She lied.

She cheated.

And she lied before she married you.....

Think about that.

And while I am pro reconciliation it was right of you to give her Divorce papers.

She needed the wakeup call those papers bring.

I tried to be the best husband I could be, to bad it wasn't enough for WW.

Your emotions are all over the place and you know it. This is normal.

When your emotions calm down you are going to realize something very important.

Your wife's infidelity is no reflection on you as a man or husband.

She chose to cheat. She chose to lie. She chose to believe the words of a liar.

That is telling. It tells you what kind of person she really is. And it kills you because you love and trusted her.

But maybe, just maybe she truly wants to be the woman you thought she was.

So Swat man how much do you love her?

Do you love her enough to hold her feet to the fire? To have her prove just how much she loves you and your family?

Do you love her enough to give her the time to figure out who she is and why she made such crappy decisions?

Think about it. Time is on your side.

Keep fighting the good fight my friend. You are in good hands here.

HM

It is a healthy human response to step back and distance ourselves from those who have hurt us..

A betrayal of the magnitude of adultery calls for cutting the adulterer out of your life....Society in general and all of the major religions stand behind this..

You don't have to carry on with married life or family life as if nothing happened if you decide to give your WW time to figure things out..

Trying to pretend for your family and friends that everything is okay in the M is like trying to do a marathon or walkathon on a newly fractured leg..

It might be better for these people to know that you have an event in your life that is causing you to limp or struggle for the time being..

Your WW knew what she stood to lose when she made her decisions to cheat..

Don't accept anything less than undying gratitude from your WW for the very fact that you are even speaking to her..

ANY impatience or arrogance on your WW's part for the way you are processing things is inappropriate..

You are the one who gets to decide if there is an R..You are also the one who gets to decide what R looks like..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:14 AM, April 4th (Friday)]

I had more I was going to say, but Bigger got that covered.

I will add this, talk is cheap. She is saying a lot of things right now, but you have to look at what she says in the context of what she does.

Your background gives you a solid foundation with this part.

Control in the cotnext of infidelity is a really odd thing. One thing that got pointed out to me early on in this ride was that any control I thought I may have had over my W wasn't really there to be gin with. IF she wants to do X, y or Z she will.

Bigger's comment is spot on with the "free will" comments. If she works on the M because it is what she thinks she ought to do, it won't last. Either of you can leave the M at any time, really for any reason. What she needs to focus on is, why would you want to stay ?

Lying is something that can be changed. Not communicating is something that can be fixed and being immature in dealing with adult emotions can also be addressed. However if all of these things are done to "just stay married," that is a weak foundation to build Reconciliation on.

Remorse and forgiveness are things that are a lot more complex and a lot more varied that most people will admit. You can't think of them as either black or white. They take many forms and once you see a newer version of it, you realize what you saw before wasn't real "remorse."

So just to illustrate the paternity example cited above:

Your W with regret would say, " Yes you can check. I have nothing to hide."

Your W with deep and true remorse would say," Based on my actions, I understand why that concerns you. I know for a fact that they are all your children. However, if this is something you are worried about, I will get a kit and let you collect and submit the samples. I don't want you to be concerned about this anymore and I am sorry my actions have destroyed your trust in me."

Regret is passive. Remorse is very active and takes into account your feeling.

Take care man. Sorry you have to be here, but glad you found us.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 10:56 AM, April 4th (Friday)]