SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Was someone posting for the very first time really forcing their opinion on you?

No, in fact that was quite clearly directed to IceCold, who said

Some people need to realize marriage is a agreement between two people.

not the person who posted in JFO about being in an open M. And yes, I did take that as a bit of "I need to see" open marriage is okay just because some other people see it as okay.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 4:32 PM, April 11th (Friday)]

Some people need to realize marriage is a agreement between two people.

That is pretty close to the webster definition of marriage.

a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage

agreement = contractual relationship

I do not see where Icecold said anything offensive.

I do not see where Icecold said anything offensive.

I was not "hugely offended" though I don't "need to see" anything since I still have my own perspective of what marriage is based on having attended lots of weddings, hearing what was stated in their vows, etc. regardless of Webster's definition. I do respect your opinion and also IceCold's but I don't "need to see" anything.

We inflicted our opinions on what we thought about how open marriages are in our minds/moral/values.

My very first post that I did was about how I found out my husband cheated on me while we were dating and many people placed their opinions on how it shouldn't matter because we weren't married and the commitment started when we got married.

I valued what our relationship was as us dating but I didn't expect people to fight over their opinions that his cheating didn't matter because we weren't married.

I have seen many open marriages and none have worked out. It comes out that one spouse wants to have this open relationship and the other doesn't but goes into it because they want to keep the other spouse happy.

I won't bring my religious views into this because it doesn't matter but many people here are religious and stated how they felt about open marriages. I got many private messages from people saying that they agreed with me that inviting someone into their relationship is asking for trouble.

Some people here can be helpful and some aren't but we shouldn't bash each other because we have different reasoning's than others. I did state that maybe she should go to the I can relate forum and talk to someone who's in her position.

Also...

Now if you want to debate open marriage, go ahead and do it here. Have at it - it doesn't bother me at all

It seems like when I posted my view, it did bother you after all. Sorry about that.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 4:54 PM, April 11th (Friday)]

It seems like when I posted my view, it did bother you after all. Sorry about that.

No need to be sorry to me. It didn't bother me at all. The only thing that bothered me were the posts on JFO. You are welcome to your opinion. I just think on JFO only words of encouragement and support should be given to first time posters. The first posts on the open marriage JFO were not encouraging or supportive. They were expressing opinions on open marriage and blaming the victim.

The idea and philosophy behind an open M I really really lie and respect. It's all about honesty, transparency, and doing something that makes your bond stronger.

However in the reality of the situation too many people use this philosophy a a sugar coating of their own Fd need to not be manogamous and be dishonest.

The truly open ad strong M's I have seen will make it they have it right. I have attended a party or two that has a mostly swinger population and I can tell pretty much right off the bat the M's that are in trouble and the ones that aren't. Just like I can in a crowd of my "vanilla" friends. Once you have been through this shitstorm we call SI, you can be quite enlightened and see thing much more clearly.

We inflicted our opinions on what we thought about how open marriages are in our minds/moral/values

Please read page 2 of the thread in question. The administrator indicates this is what you are not supposed to do. This is the point I am trying to make.

Great thread. Thanks to the OP for starting it.

There are many models for a successful marriage. Not all of those models are monogamous. They all do require honesty and respect and mutual consent, however. The betrayal occurs when those principles are violated.

I see no great need to debate monogamous vs. non-monogamous mutually consensual relationships. To me, that'd be about as productive as debating Christianity vs. Islam. Discuss and compare, sure. But debate? Include me out of that.

That's why I backed tract and said that I wasn't going to bring MY religious view into this.

But I stated that I seen many open marriages not work out. That in reality only one person wants to be in the open relationship and the other one doesn't.

The girl who posted it herself said she knew how her Husband was, you can tell she's not into being in an open marriage but is doing it to still be with him. She even comes up with the excuse because he can't control himself around other women.

How can others say on other post "oh girl you need to get an attorney and leave." But we can't say we don't believe your relationship won't last when you bring in another person into your marriage?

I didn't post on her thread.

You can tell by her own words she did not truly desire the "open marriage" arrangement which is so typical. So she did it to hold on to her husband but she lost him anyway.

I really cannot imagine the humiliation.

Open marriages swinging, etc are truly vile and go against a woman's nature. There is no doubt in my mind that backstabbing and infidelity are way higher in those groups. I'm not buying all their propaganda about how it makes them closer. How much time do these people spend sitting around discussing rules and boundaries? Do they have any time left?

And I have NO sympathy for a woman who gets cheated on in an open relationship. She sets up "rules" where it's ok for her husband to have sex with other women, so long as he has no feelings for them etc and basically just treats them like blow-up dolls. Isn't that nice? What kind of a woman actually co-signs on something like that just so she can keep such a *gem* of a man? And then he decides he has real feelings for some woman and starts up something secret?

Well boo-hoo.

The whole thing is making a deal with the devil from go.

This is what I don't understand - this forum is about surviving infidelity. It's focus is not about lying, addiction, stealing, physical abuse, etc although all of those may accompany infidelity.

Marriages end for many reasons often when no infidelity is present. And many marriages may continue for decades even with sexual infidelity if the partner are okay with it.

A partner can betray their spouse horrible and never once be physically unfaithful. And that is not okay.

In an open marriage where one or both partners have permission to have sex outside the marriage it seems to me that unlike many who come here shell shocked that their spouse had sex with another person it's not the sex they are objecting to. It's the lying and betrayal, etc.

So what I think I am saying is that this forum seems to be for people who are trying to deal with the sexual infidelity.

I don't think I would come to surviving infidelity if my marriage issue was not sexual infidelity - i.e if it were mental or physical abuse, emotional betrayal, etc.

I am certainly not trying to be an arbiter of who can post here. But don't complain too much if this isn't the best fit. There are tons of support forums.

I totally disagree oftencheated.

This site is about surviving infidelity. The secrets the lies the pain of it. I would even venture to say those of us who have dealt with both the emotional and physical would say the emotional part is much harder to deal with. Deal with the lies the deception the excuses. That is much harder than accepting the fact that our partners chose to screw someone else. At least with the swingers it's not really about creating some fantasy Lurrrve relationship. It is more about the act and knowing their partner is enjoying themselves. It brings them pleasure to know their partners are being pleasured.

So I do feel it's for anyone on any level to come and post gay straight swinger vanilla we all are looking for the same thing emotional support in navigating this mess

I would even venture to say those of us who have dealt with both the emotional and physical would say the emotional part is much harder to deal with. Deal with the lies the deception the excuses. That is much harder than accepting the fact that our partners chose to screw someone else.

Every case is different. My current H had an EA (no sex) and my XH frequented prostitutes. While I cannot compare the hurt (it was awful in both cases) I do find I am more compatible with a man who had an EA but is not promiscuous, and has learned from his mistake, than I am with my XH. I was able to forgive and R with my current H, but not with my X.

This post is obviously about my thread. I would like to thank you all. Most responses were comforting. Those that were not I ignored. I know most people will not understand my Hs and mine relationship. But for those who understood my pain and took a moment to let me know I am not alone thank you.

I do not see where Icecold said anything offensive.

I was not "hugely offended" though I don't "need to see" anything since I still have my own perspective of what marriage is based on having attended lots of weddings, hearing what was stated in their vows, etc. regardless of Webster's definition. I do respect your opinion and also IceCold's but I don't "need to see" anything.

I wasn't just stating my opinion, but I was also stating the definition of how legally marriage is viewed in most western countries. Even if you don't agree with that definition, it doesn't make it any less the definition in the western society we live in. You don't have to stand by it, but I will use that definition as the official term for western relationships like most people.

I guess the wording could be seen up for interpretation if you equate "need to realize" to "need to see". I used need to realize in more of a concrete physical "this is the way it logically works in the western world. Anything within the boundary of those two people that have been recognized by the state make it a marriage. Not "need to see" as in you need to change your view to mine. So please dont make my words into something they aren't.

This might be better though:

Some people need to respect marriage as an agreement between two people.

Someones marriage might offend you. You don't have to like it, you don't even have to agree, but that is what it is. If you are one of the people who are offended by a certain relationship, then I think the polite thing to do would be not to engage.

I recognize all different relationships. One of my Indian friends was married in a arrange marriage. She barely knew the man. I know of a polygamous muslim couple. I know of gay, straight, bi, couples. How I intrinsically define my marriage, even with recognizing those are legal and real marriages that fit into those peoples worlds and life views, is personal, like how we see people on here differently define infidelity (porn?), forgiveness (is it fake if it's instant, with no work put to right the wrong?), acceptance, etc. Me having a different view from others doesn't make their or your views any less real.

I cannot agree that just because two people *agree* on something, if one person goes back on it well then *gasp* betrayal.

Some commitments are just impossible to keep. Some people feel coerced into "agreeing" to stuff for fear of losing their mate. These agreements are worthless from jump.

Look, if I agreed to my husband from before we were married that I would never use birth control, we would have 10 kids, have dinner twice a week with his parents, and I would be in charge of all the household chores...oh also hold down a job so I could split the bills... Would anybody have sympathy for him because I broke our agreement?

An agreement that is entirely untenable? An agreement that is laughable?

I see no betrayal in the OP situation. I see two people playing with their "marriage" like it's the craps table in Vegas and one of them is crying over losing. He played that situation like a pimp, no shock there, he obviously has zero respect for women. He was taking his own wife to the titty bar, which she was ok with!

And I'm sure the drug addicted stripper will make sure to get something out of the situation too. So am I supposed to feel sad for the one person who engaged in adultery but failed to look out for her own best interests?

I do not agree that you can just slap the term "marriage" on any old thing and call it good. An open marriage is not a marriage.

I need to make this clear. I am attracted to women. I had no problem with it. My h did not force me into anything. I went in eyes wide open. I wanted this too. I know my husband we discussed all of this before marriage he knew how I felt about secrets. I never wanted him to be anyone other than who he is.

Men and women look at sex or making love very differently. This is my view please excuse the graphic language. Fucking or sex can be done with anyone. A stranger the person you love a group if thats what you like. Its fun its exciting. Its orgasms. Making love is different that is between 2 people who have bared their souls to each other. Two people who have given and accepted expectations. Two people who took off the masks made themselves vulnerable to each other.

I made a vow to be honest and love him unconditionally until death do us part. He made the same vows to me and broke everyone. It may not be the relationship you wanted but it was mine and I was happy. I was beyond happy. He was every love song cliche to me. He was Ryan Gosling in The Notebook. He was the Edward to my Bella. He was my Prince Charming my Knight in shining armor.

My parents had an open marriage. I was not aware of this until I was in my twenties. The were married for 25 yrs together for 27. I never knew they invited other people into their bed. They were in love until the day my dad died 10 years ago. My mom has been with no one since man or woman. She said with out her partner and they love that they shared was once in a lifetime she could never duplicate.

I judge no one's relationship. I just know you have to love people for who they are not who we wish them to be. I know my H is a man whore. He loves women and they love him. I know that. I love sex I like to experiment and try new things.

I just wanted to put that out there. Tjat I knew what I was opening myself up to. If you read the original thread I did give the full story. If you interested it might clear it up where my issues come in.

I thought I inveted a women into my marriage. It turned out my H and the OW invited me to join their affair. Again tahnks for listening.

I judge no one's relationship. I just know you have to love people for who they are not who we wish them to be. I know my H is a man whore. He loves women and they love him. I know that. I love sex I like to experiment and try new things

I can see how your marriage was doomed. Can you?

I can plainly see that your man does not love women he is actually misogynistic. Fucking a stripper in her car behind his wife's back is not loving women. Maybe he loves to fuck women.

I can also see right here on these forums your lack of boundaries. This thread was started to keep this subject *off* your thread so your thread could be about you. But that's fine.

I find your referencing fictional characters and fairy tales to be very revealing.

Like most women in these kind of relationships you adore your husband in a way that is highly idealistic and I am sure is not in keeping with reality. Edward to your Bella? But when he cheats on you the best he can do is a heroin addicted stripper.

Again, I have no problems with any of it. I just see it being the logical outcome. This is how things were going to turn out. Your husband has likely had numerous affairs. I hope the stripper finds help for her substance abuse issues. This is not your post in JFO and I'm not going to mince words.

Ryan Gosling in The Notebook? I've only seen that movie once...and thought it was awful because of the infidelity storyline..but IIRC..Ryan is the OM?

Edward Cullen...slightly embarrassed(ok..very ) to admit I liked these books(not the movies) when they came out. Edward is a controlling..no..let me change that..he is the very definition of a controlling boyfriend. And that relationship was extremely unhealthy. Prince Charming..and KISA? Yeah..we see a lot of WH around here who have a strong need to play KISA.

The open marriage thing? It's not for ME..but that doesn't mean it's not for YOU. What I do in my marriage has no affect on you..and what you do in yours has no affect on me. iIt's like people getting upset over gay marriage...if you're not gay then it doesn't affect your marriage...KWIM?

BUT.

I did feel the need to point out the unhealthy examples you compared him too...Edward..Ryan...KISA.

You absolutely belong here. Im sorry if anyone made you feel unwelcome. Mine is not the typical story on here either..and I have never been made to feel like I didn't belong or hadn't been betrayed. FTN. My WH cheated and he lied...and so did yours.

Please stay. There is a ton of great advice, support, and wisdom here. You won't find a more compassionate, understanding, kind group of people.

Welcome to SI.

[This message edited by confused615 at 4:49 AM, April 12th (Saturday)]