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She text me a load of emotional blackmail along the lines of worrying about our son/should she (and he) come home last night, etc etc. All designed to make me reply.

If there was ever a time for the 180 for anyone on this entire board it is you, right now.

You are now looking at your future.

A future of constant bickering, bad moods from her, her wondering what she ever wants to do. And to be very honest, a future for you waiting for her to have her next affair.

This is number 2, and neither of them have ever been discussed. She has ignored and rugswept 2 affairs now. Never once giving you a why as to why she had 2 affairs.

No IC. No changing her phone number. No remorse, and no R.

Your future.

She cancelled due to her bad mood and our lack of finances, but mainly her mood.

I have seen this before...a bad mood because the OM cancelled.

She tells you not to come home, after she was going to go out all night and party.

She isn't growing up at all. Your future.

And WHY does she know you are calling your lawyer?

She shouldn't know these things. She is going to beat you to the punch and talk to a lawyer and you will be behind again.

You are not getting out in front of this at all.

At one point she claimed she couldn't see a future for us as she couldn't see how she could trust ME!!

Your future of blame shifting by her.

You are to blame for her affairs and you are to blame for the rain and you are to blame for the finances and you are to blame for everything...while she sits on fences.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 8:40 AM, May 31st (Saturday)]

Detach detach detach.

Do not engage her. You can not reason with her and all its do I get when you do is make you weaker mentally.

Seriously. Every time you start to grow a pair you try to reason and then you are lost. Go back and reread the last 5 pages. We get it it is scary and hurts like hell. You know what's worse? Doing this for the next 20 years.

You are smart, strong, and capable. Start tapping into that.

And - weirdly - my WW seems very disturbed at the idea of me going to a solicitor.

180. None of her business right now. You can tell her if she asks, but I wouldn’t actually volunteer any information. You are moving on with your own life and that will involve seeing a lawyer and drawing up you divorce petition. She’ll know when she gets the legal letter and has to respond.

I AM prepared to get D started but I confess to some holes in my knowledge - when do I get charged? How, in increments? What is the first thing that happens after I instruct the solicitor? It seems I didn't get all my answers, after all.

The basic costs are all there on the government website. Also here:

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/paying-divorce-costs

This could be useful too:

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/paying-divorce-costs

Be prepared to pay upfront for the first consultation if it runs over the initial “free” 30 or 60 mins. I don’t know, maybe where you live they don’t offer that free consultation. Where I live (Derbyshire) one practice offers free family law advice once a week. That’s in addition to the CAB. Ask around, look in local papers and freebie lifestyle magazines, online, etc. Thereafter, once your engage a solicitor to take your case, you can pay in the usual way – credit/debit card. They may allow you to pay by instalments. Ask. Do as much of the work yourself as you can and cut the costs. (see above site)

But in the meantime, she's undeniably treating me with incredible cruelty and lack of remorse, and I'm sitting here taking it.

The answer is to D.E.T.A.C.H and simply move on with divorce. I know it will cost several hundred just to get the process going, but you cannot sit around just waiting. Do NOT stay married just because of the cost – you are merely prolonging the heartache. And she will continue to walk all over you.

She text me a load of emotional blackmail along the lines of worrying about our son/should she (and he) come home last night, etc etc. All designed to make me reply.

Ignore. Ignore. Ignore. If you feel you have to reply, say something along the lines of “I’m sure you’ll cope”

At one point she claimed she couldn't see a future for us as she couldn't see how she could trust ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blameshifiting. Normal from a WS. As is the wondering what advice you are receiving or what investigations you are doing with regard to your situation. She sees that you are showing an element of control and she doesn’t like it.

She cancelled due to her bad mood and our lack of finances, but mainly her mood.

I have seen this before...a bad mood because the OM cancelled.

Agree. Absolutely.

Get that CAB/solicitor's appt. Go into the CAB and get a list of divorce solicitors, ring around and get the ball rolling. Help is out there. Much of it for free. Do it. Please.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:23 PM, May 31st (Saturday)]

Saveus, why do you consistently in your posts equate filing for divorce with actually getting divorced? They are not even close to the same thing.

Fair point MC_Jack and well made. I knew that but you've somehow helped it sink in.

I'm getting the message by the way - D E T A C H...

UKgirl, please don't think I haven't already been to one solicitor (30 mins free consultation). Oh, and that second link you gave me is the same as the first. I can assure you I would not stay married just because of the cost of divorcing - that's what I suspect my WW thinks...

Saveus

Think a minute. Your WW told you she did not go out with friends because of finances. Well, if that is true when you file for D her finances will get a hell of a lot worse. However, I did not believe she would have ever annex to go out with the girls if she could not afford a beer or two. She did not go out because Of some other reason that had to do with some man other than you. She could have had a Coke or Pepsi for chump change and been with her girlfriends. She certainly did not stay home for an enjoyable evening with you.

There are now 30 pages on this thread. Unfortunately you are getting the crap beat out of you be her for 99% of the thread.

Each time you get to the point of stepping up, it's one thing after the other stopping you.

If you can't pull the trigger soon your health will deteriorate from all the anxiety and that will certainly not do your so. Any good. He will be fine!!! Show him his Dad is not a punching bag and how important respect is .

Sorry saveus - in haste and made an error. Try this:

http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/downloads/documents/publications/Using-a-divorce-lawyer-ten-helpful-tips.pdf

Just keep on moving, step by step, down the divorce road. She can stop this. If you incur costs, that is because she isn't fully committed. And isn't it better to know now? Really? Do you want someone who is making do because you are suffering from inertia? You HAVE to knock her off the fence. She will jump one side or the other.

Thanks you two. Badhurt, I didn't say my WW gave finances as her reason for not going out. I just know that face she pulls when we are hard up.

Re the rest, I really AM listening.

We know you are starting to get it and that you are responding even if slowly, too slowly for those who are concerned for your agony.

Hopefully, we will all be cheering soon when you deliver your punch

I didn't say my WW gave finances as her reason for not going out. I just know that face she pulls when we are hard up.

I've come into £750 unexpectedly this morning - not quite a life changing sum but the universe does work in mysterious ways).

Take the £750 and FILE for divorce, which (as MC_Jack correctly points out) is different than a final divorce decree. If you don't file, then hand the £750 over to a parent or trusted friend with specific instructions that this money is earmarked for D and not to be returned to you or WW for other purposes.

In the meantime, stop the meaningless conversations. Come up with a short reply to any of her hoovering, for example: "I need you to respect me and our marriage vows. Until you change your mobile number and XYZ, I am detaching with love." (or detaching to protect myself) Or whatever.

The crazy stops when you disengage. Change begins when you change.

Saveus - You re having a hard time deciding what to do. Not to mention spending all of that money to file for a divorce, in the back of your mind, you really don't think will ever happen anyway.

So money is tight, why waste the money? And you are thinking she will change.

She will ONLY change when she wants to. She will only change when she is ready. And that is common with a WW that has mental issues. Whatever those issues are. Be it drugs, alcohol, childhood abuse or a number of others.

And your wife most certainly has some kind of issue considering this is her 2nd affair. That is not normal.

She needs to be ready to change right now, otherwise your future is exactly what you have today.

Do you think your wife is suddenly going to change...no, she will not because at this time, she refuses to believe SHE has any kind of problem and also she refuses to go to any kind of IC.

MC would be a constant fight, she already blames you for everything, she is already saying things like HOW can she ever trust YOU.

How can you ever get over this.

Those two phrases out of her mouth are defeatist already. She acts like she doesn't want things to be better, because her words are already showing defeat.

Maybe she just wants to be single, at least that way she wont have to answer to you or anyone else. She seems to like that.

Right now, you need to write her that letter of yours...a new one. And this time, no emotion at all.

You lay out what you expect of her.

1) Change her phone number right now, there is just no excuse for this OM to be able to contact her. There is no reason in this world, you as her husband have to be subjected to that kind of crap from some other guy.

2) She explains once and for all why two affairs in three years.

3) She take 100% blame for her affairs. They were her choice and you had nothing to do with it.

4) She goes to IC. She needs to understand what the hell she has done this year alone. Spending the night with some OM. Leaving you and going over there, etc, etc.

And I am sure you can think of other conditions.

You need an end point here. And you need 100% information, you need to know when she is talking to the OM. When she is seeing him. And you need concrete legal advice right now. I don't know the laws of your country, but your wife should be on the hook for half of the bills including house payments.

If your wife shows no indication she wants to move forward and grow up, than this is your future.

Your future with her as she currently is, is more affairs, more games, more OM, more blaming you, and more drama queen.

Cheers Badhurt. I will get there, wherever 'there' turns out to be...

@IWantDoOver: That £750 is long gone, I'm afraid, in part on this month's mortgage.

@craig2001: I have just re-read the letter I wrote and realised I won't be giving it to my WW. There is nothing in there she doesn't already know. She knows what my boundaries are and - as recently as ten minutes ago - was telling me there's no way she's ever speaking to a counsellor. I know how my future is currently looking and I WILL be taking advice (at the very least) this week.

Hi.

So sorry to hear what you've been going through, I hope it will soon take a turn for the better.

How is your boy doing? Have you considered trying to find free/subsidized counselling for him to help him deal with all the tension etc.? Or finding a support/self-help group for you for parents who deal with similar issues?

Best wishes!

No therapy can mean she doesn't care, or doesn't think she has a problem or is afraid to hear the truth.

So far, she has not heard the truth from anyone she cares to listen to. And certainly not a professional in mental issues.

I guess than the 180 is what is needed. I think you can do that now, since you already realize there is nothing to talk to her about and everything she says is only said to provoke a negative response from you.

Have you been checking up on her phone, texts and looking everywhere. For someone who has ended the affair, she is acting strange.

I do think affairs are normal behavior for her, otherwise she would at least act sorry for two affairs.

If I were you, I would most certainly be snooping in every possible way...for a different OM.

It sort of seems to me your wife is continually looking for an exit affair. Yet she can't find the right OM. This could continue for years unless she goes to IC. And I could be wrong, I don't know much about exit affairs.

Has she even read anything about affairs, especially books like Not Just Friends? If not, give her that book to read.

@HobbesTheTiger: Thank you so much. The idea of some form of therapy for my DS has come up though I confess, as a Brit, I feel uneasy about the idea. Goodness knows why; I've been to counselling myself and will be going back. I guess I stupidly think I'm/we're doing a good enough job of protecting him from everything. Then again, I just read a bit from SWAT70's thread about his kids talking to a professional and it quite choked me up. I see the point, I guess I just worry it'll mess him up rather than do him some good. I will consider this, I promise.

@craig2001: I think my WW's refusal to see anyone means (a) she is very, very good at boxing up the bad things she's done and just moving on (from my point of view, guilt-free), (b) she doesn't want to look in the mirror and face up to the hurt she's caused others, (c) she thinks it's all about apportioning blame (on her), and (d) she thinks things from her distant past will get dragged up, which she refuses to open up about.

I have only snooped lately at her more recent text messages, but I take your point. I'm more concerned there were other As in the past than that she may yet look for another (though of course if the first is true the second will surely follow).

I will try to 180 this week. I've had a bit of a relapse lately I admit.

I have thought about getting her Not Just Friends but I seriously doubt she'd read it. She'd probably laugh at it and/or be offended, like she has nothing to learn. I may yet get it for her though.

I told her this morning that there could be no R until she faces up to what she's done and tries to figure out why these As happened. Her response was (not for the first time), 'you're asking me to come up with answers and I don't have any'. When really pushed I might get 'I wasn't happy' (neither was I), 'our marriage was over' (it wasn't and, in any case, what is she doing here then??) or 'well I wasn't getting it at home!' (if she wasn't then I certainly wasn't either!!!). ALL the above have come out of her mouth this weekend

(d) she thinks things from her distant past will get dragged up, which she refuses to open up about.

Do you know of any distant past issues with her?

Sure sounds like she has some. And without IC, she will continue to act this way because of her past issues.

What is needed is IC to fix what happened to her in the past because what happened is what is causing the current. If she doesnt face up to the past, she will just continue acting things out with OM...most likely.

'you're asking me to come up with answers and I don't have any'.

Answers like that always annoyed me until I finally told me wife she damn well better get some answers.

It wasnt until she was finally honest with herself she finally got the answers. Not having any answers usually means not wanting to look inside oneself to get the answers.

'well I wasn't getting it at home!'

As a reason for going out with OM. If my wife had said that to me, it most likely would have been a divorce. Statements like that are never gotten over. No matter how they were said in anger.

The more your wife talks, the more she is distancing herself from you. She seems to either not think at all when she talks or she does want to be distanced from you.

Being distanced from you, gives her more inner-excuses to have affairs.

It is hard to say if she had any other affairs, it should not surprise you though at this point. You are starting to see how she can never be honest with herself and the past issues.

Saveus my man. You need to re read the info on 180. You are engaging with her waaaaaaayyyyyy too much. She is weakening you and fucking up your resolve.

Call the solicitor and go dark. Waaaaaaayyyyyy dark on her.

She doesn't and she won't until she has serious scary consequences. I'm not sure she will even then. But you deserve much more.

Get strong, quit listening to her .

'you're asking me to come up with answers and I don't have any'. When really pushed I might get 'I wasn't happy' (neither was I), 'our marriage was over' (it wasn't and, in any case, what is she doing here then??) or 'well I wasn't getting it at home!' (if she wasn't then I certainly wasn't either!!!).

Contempt is the word. Funnily enough I used it myself

I spent much of those years sleeping in the second bedroom.

I do actually love her, is proving an enormous challenge and the legacy of years of taking each other for granted.

What exactly are you trying to save here? You can love someone, or something, that is not good for you.

After an affair, there are 3 entities that need to heal from the trauma of betrayal:

1. BS

2. WS

3. Marriage

Work on your own issues. Look for another job that gives you and your son financial security.

Turn your back on the contempt and work on your own happiness.

Hey Saveus, How's it going friend?