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I WANT HER TO GET WHAT THIS IS DOING TO ME!!! I WANT HER TO CARE AND BREAK DOWN IN SOBS, SHOW ME THAT THERE IS SOME REMORSE IN THERE!!!

I wanted that too. I had to accept that I had no control over that after dday #1 when my (now ex) WW took things underground too. Your WW has done the same.

You have to accept you can't control her choices.

You can't get her to feel anything.

Those texts are highly inappropriate. They constitute your newest dday. That is a gut punch I know quite well.

I'm not saying you need to D. I'm saying you need to accept who your WW is and that she refuses to be any different. Her solution is to try to hide her actions better. This falls into the category of someone who things keeping a lie well hidden is equal to telling the truth.

2/14/14 7:01 PM

WW: I lay back and take it like a bitch

2/14/14 7:02 PM

'FRIEND': Nice!!! [saveus] likes the easy pickings....

That was a conversation with WHO? Was that with a 17 year old.

Come on. There is no need to talk to her. There is nothing more to say to her. She never has anything to say.

If I were you, I would print out that conversation and leave it on the table. And thats that.

She says she lays back and takes it like a bitch.

There is NO talking to her. Not now, not tomorrow, never. She refuses to get therapy, so there is nothing you can do.

She is telling a 17 year old boy about how she has sex with you now.

As for that conversation, I only see the guys side after her comment.

Anyway, there is nothing to talk to her about. She does not give a damn what she has done to you and what she is doing to you. She doesnt care.

She has an excuse for every wrong she does.

You know what you have to do. If you can ever have any feelings for her after her comment about laying there, than I really dont know what to say.

If you have want to have a real life again, you know what needs doing right now. And that is divorce.

I forgot to add, don't threaten her with anything like there's the door. What is the point. The only thing that would ever make your wife grow up, change and respect you is for you to file divorce papers.

Right now, she doesn't even think you have it in you to file and have her served.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 12:09 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]

I WANT HER TO GET WHAT THIS IS DOING TO ME!!! I WANT HER TO CARE AND BREAK DOWN IN SOBS, SHOW ME THAT THERE IS SOME REMORSE IN THERE!!!

Of course you do, Saveus. So did I. So did all of us. It's what separates you from her: empathy. If she were capable of it--feeling pain from seeing your pain--remorse would follow. But she isn't capable. She keeps showing you, as mine did me, but you are in the agonizing throes of trying to understand why another person can't see or care about the obvious.

I was even reduced to explaining to my XW what empathy is, how remorse differs from regret, and begged her outright to stop hurting me and to please try to imagine if the situation were reversed. Blank stare. It was horrifying.

The pain will continue for you, Saveus. I'm so sorry. I do advocate at this time divorce. She is gone and and she does not love you. I hate to type these words, but these are the words I had to tell myself when I was in your exact same limbo. Divorcing will be a new chapter of hell, but it will be NEW. Know what I mean? You will extricate yourself from this particular torture--the torture of inertia--and be in motion, forward. It won't be a glorious new beginning--not for a long long time--but your tormented soul will breathe as you take control of the situation.

You are dying inside. I know you are. Toward the end, I was sure that I would go to sleep one night and my body would simply shut down. That scared me. Finally, I just made up my mind--not my emotions, which were my enemy, deluding me into believing with every crumb of hope XW tossed my way that she would "get it"--to end the pain.

It has to be done, Saveus. No more of this pain for you and your son. Enough, OK? Walk off the cliff into what appears to be an even scarier abyss. But it's not. It's just fear. There is a shallow bottom to the abyss of fear. But the abyss you are in now? It's endless if you stay.

Strength. You can do this.

Listen to AAbandodad he is now a wise man that once walked in your shoes. He struggled he felt the pain. And he lived in the soul ducking limbo as you are. Don't let it destroy you and your self esteem like it had so many other people here.

she does not love you

She does not love herself or anyone else either. She might not even know what love is.

She needs therapy and she refused that as well. She likes her life the way it is at this time.

Saveus, I have followed your sorry story from the beginning and my heart goes out to you for what you're currently going through. There's really not much I can add to what has already been said by others.

It's taken me 5 months of emotional agony to realise that I needed to take control of my situation as, like you currently are, I was hopelessly in denial. I've finally woken up to my total dependency on my relationship with WW despite the way she has treated me and our marriage.

There comes a point where you must take control of your own destiny (and that of your son) and detach because if you don't you and your son will both end up more psychologically and emotionally damaged.

I also dearly want my WW to get what she is doing to me. I want her to care and break down in sobs, show me that there is some remorse in there. But I now accept that this is never going to happen because she does not have it in her to be able to do that. Your WW's total lack of empathy towards you is horrendous to witness.

I sincerely hope that you emerge from your denial fog sooner than later for your own sake and that of your beloved son.

Nothing anyone says on here seems to have sunk in with you. Sorry for the 2x4 but you're like the Vicky Pollard character..'yeah but, no but, yeah but'.

Don't be delusional Saveus! Please try and take a really deep look within your own heart and ask yourself what is best for you and your family. It's so difficult for you to take in at the moment but there will be a future without your WW.

Abbondad is spot on imho.

Now do the right thing!

All the best Saveus.

Saveus,

You have two choices. Two. That is all. Believe me when I say there are NO other choices.

1) Divorce

2) Stay married and accept that your wife has many sexual partners, doesn't love you and couldn't give a shit about your feelings.

You will never see remorse. It's not something that her core personality ever had.

I speak from experience. I can't think of a single example on SI where a WW shows true remorse unless it was ONS scenario. Can anyone tell me otherwise?

I hope you opt for number 1 but I predict you won't

Saveus, the hardest part about reaching this point in our own hellish path of infidelity is finally seeing the real spouse apart from the one we thought we knew. It's very difficult to come to those terms, even more so to let go of any hope that perhaps our spouse may change, finally see the error of their ways, feel the pain and finally understand what they put us and our families through. Unfortunately, people like your WW will have to hit absolute rock bottom before realizing her destruction. Rock bottom is losing you, your son, and everyone around her that had any meaning to her.

This will get worse. She's already trying to start up another A with a potential new OM at the new club. You're about to get hit with another shit storm. History is repeating. You KNOW what the results will be.

I can't think of a single example on SI where a WW shows true remorse unless it was ONS scenario.

Allatsea, there are a few regular posters in WS who show that remorse. It is in reading their thoughts, their experiences giving us the insight to see that saveus WW doesn't have anything close to remorse.

Brandon,

I stand corrected.

t/j

I can't recall of any WS that show remorse except when the betrayal was under the briefest of affair or one night stand scenarios.

I can see how people get into a situation where they could have a momentary brain fart and enter into a ONS or short fling but then suddenly realise what they've done and show contrition and true remorse but conversely, people who instigate a nasty and long term affair where the wellbeing of the BS and their family is utterly thrown under the bus, and then doubly abuse after the affair is exposed, are simply NEVER capable of true remorse because if they were they wouldn't have continued to behave abominably after discovery.

I must have missed the reconciliation threads where WS's who have done the latter are truly remorseful. I shall look harder.

t/j

I can't recall of any WS that show remorse except when the betrayal was under the briefest of affair or one night stand scenarios.

There are many WW's on here that have shown real remorse after LTA. There is more than one reason for a LTA or multiple affairs.

But I do know of many WWs on there that have shown true remorse after something more than just ONS. Some of these WWs that I am talking about have been on here a long time.

T/j - Brandon, I agree with Craig. Some of the FWS I admire and respect the most had either multiple A or a LTA or both. Their remorse is Palpable.

My wife had 2 ONS, 1 LTA, and was sexting about a dozen guys. I can't say ... yet ... that her remorse is genuine. But in the wayward forum there are many that have had more than "just" a ONS and do have remorse, are working towards R, and are trying to fix themselves.

They work their asses off there to better themselves and to support their bs. Please don't tar all with one brush.

Stick to saveus and his particular situation.

[This message edited by william at 5:36 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

You have two choices. Two. That is all. Believe me when I say there are NO other choices.

1) Divorce

2) Stay married and accept that your wife has many sexual partners, doesn't love you and couldn't give a shit about your feelings.

Yes. I think the latest examples lead to this conclusion as well.

She is a very, very immature woman. She doesn't see marriage as we do.

If you're OK sharing her with the flavor of the month, by all means, share away. But it's obvious that this is getting to you, and, given the violence we've seen, that can only escalate.

Hey saveus, I just read your latest update. Good Lord mate, she is certainly putting you through hell. We have all gone through some form of this hell, but an unremorseful spouse really takes the cake.

Mate, I cannot fathom the sheer stupidity amd cruelty inherent in your wife. Sexting with a 17 year old? Really?!?! She truly has learned nothing and I can only posit that she is determined to self-destruct. Her 'I lie back and take it like a bitch' description of your sex life is disrespect personified.

I am so glad your son is doing well, but this needs to stop, for his sake. I am also glad to hear you are taking time to do things by yourself....you certainly have some big decisions to make about things.

How are things going now mate? Have you confronted her?

Thanks everyone.

Monday was our 7th wedding anniversary. I didn't mark it at all. Only acknowledged it in the evening when my WW asked if her mum had text me - I replied saying, 'no, why would she?', before realising the significance of WW's question. The cards people sent are still sitting, unopened, in the kitchen.

Always more to say but nothing particularly new or revelatory. Nothing's changed. WW is still showing no remorse or empathy and is put out when I want to discuss anything. Any 'honesty' that existed a few weeks from D-Day 1 has completely dried up. Yet she hates being ignored. We barely speak most of the time. We've been in different bedrooms for well over a month now.

DS must be noticing, in fact what am I saying, of course I know he is. We don't argue much, least of all in front of him, and still do things as a family. But there's an atmosphere.

No, I haven't confronted her about the most recent texts. Learning to sit on knowledge rather than blurt it out through sheer frustration. Am not not dealing with things (as it looks to you), just doing it in my own way/time.

[This message edited by saveus at 1:24 AM, July 30th (Wednesday)]

Glad to hear you haven't gone insane.

What are you waiting for? Is there something else you are looking for?

Did you at least call your friend to find out why he is calling your wife.

Saveus,

Brother, my heart truly goes out to you. I was where you are in my first M. She was semi diagnosed w/borderline personality disorder. The beatdowns I was willing to accept in hindsight were horrendous. I was well trained by her.

But.....

DS must be noticing, in fact what am I saying, of course I know he is. We don't argue much, least of all in front of him, and still do things as a family. But there's an atmosphere.

when I saw the damage occurring to DS, I had to act. All my KISA tendencies transferred to him. I had to save HIM. The only way to have a chance to do that was to divorce her. Note...I still didn't do it because of the way she was whoring around or treating ME, but for him.

Is he worth saving? I know your answer, I too delayed in hopes of the miracle change. Won't happen.

Sending strength. You'll get there brother.

Said with extreme sarcasm. ...This new normal is such a wonderful atmosphere to raise a child in and you are showing him how to be a strong man that accepts nothing but the respect and love and person would deserve.

Seriously. ...You can stay or you can go that's your choice but this is setting a horrible example of what marriage is and should be and even though your son is young it will become part of his frame of reference. And he will be much more likely to repeat this cycle than you realize.

I hope you find your strength soon and end this soul suckling relationship sooner than later.

At work so no time to answer each of you just now.

But to tushnurse, if I thought I were willing or ABLE to live in this 'new normal' indefinitely, you'd be 100% right. I never called this the 'new normal'. Nothing about this is 'normal'. Nor is it healthy for my beautiful boy. But, aged 5, nor would a (possibly messy) divorce. I get it - look 20/30 years ahead (I am very good at this in life where my WW never has been) but I have to say I do NOT entirely get the clamouring for divorce around here; the 'kids get over divorce all the time'; hell, even 'you can't stay together for the kids'. This last one holds the most sway for me and I generally believe it to be true. But - contrary to your perspective, maybe - I put my DS ahead of myself in all this. His mum will always be his mum, whether or not she ever deals with her demons. I am yet to be convinced that divorcing his mother is the best thing for him. And I'm slightly sick of being told what a poor role model I am for him. I have always - ALWAYS - tried to be the best person I can be (not always successfully) and am honest to a fault. Yes I'm a doormat. 'Too nice', as I've heard more times than I care to remember. Yes, this is what I get to show for it. But sticking around right now is NOT necessarily a sign of my weakness. I will stick around until I am ABSOLUTELY, CATEGORICALLY, 1000% CONVINCED that there is nothing left - no straws to clutch, I'll admit it - that I can do to save our family. I WILL look my grown-up son in the eye one day and KNOW I could have done no more. I WILL. And he WILL respect me for the person I am because I AM strong. I'm also loving, loyal, trustworthy, honest, hardworking, independent... I have my flaws too but I am honest about them and prepared to look at myself.

I know you - and others - mean well but my self-esteem has taken more of a battering SINCE finding out my wife has been sleeping around. It's a good job I AM stronger than you seem to think.

Sorry for the defensiveness, but I needed to get this off my chest.

Saveus, your last post is awesome! Thank you for writing that.

I am in the camp that you do whatever you can for however long you need in order to convince yourself there is NO other option. You have the added detail of a wonderful son to consider.

I waited years - YEARS - being a doormat, trying everything then trying things one more time to be sure. And that was without having children with X. I waited until I was ready then I pulled that rusty trigger that had been staring me in the face. It still wasn't easy.

Years ago on this site I don't remember people being so quick to throw out the "Leave Now" statements. i'm not sure what caused the shift but I think you are doing the right thing. You and you alone have to live with yourself and with the decisions you make. Hugs.