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IU Hoosier

So what has actually happened so far now that you have seen everything. Was it just kissing or did it get to PA?? Also, the other women on this trip, what did they know? It seems impossible that a group of girls can go on this trip and at least two of them carrying on with other men that none of the others noticed or knew what was going on? If you know any of them I would try to find out if the stories match.How are you going to have access to her work phone??? And if she is not living with you for weeks how can you confirm transparency.

Not sure if the moving out thing is good or bad. You have to be judge of that. Now that everything is exposed, or you think it is, I think it is time to communicate, not separate, but you know best on that one. And I am assuming that if you decide to R, that girls only trips anywhere are out of the question for now, especially until you know if any of the others on the trip were friends or enemies of your marraige.

Lastly, I still think you should call the toxics husband, so that you can know if he will contact you if they try to get together again behind your back, and if you are friends with any of the other husbands I would let them know that they need to be careful about sending their wives on any more girls only trips.

I guess what I am saying is the old, stay on guard and if you stay together try to build some trust but VERIFY. Dont be blinded by trying to R and get blindsided.

You did a great job, as others have said. Keep us posted.

Not really sure if I agree with the whole hotel thing. It seems you have just given her a pass and plan on footing the bill for it to. Something just doesn't sound right.I might rethink that arraignment. Just my opinion. I know if my husband first had me wait 24 hours for an answer on if he wanted to be together. Then request a separation of at least a week or so after he said yes, would have put me on high alert about the plans he was making and with who over the last 24 hours. Once again just my new jaded opinion.

Not really sure if I agree with the whole hotel thing. It seems you have just given her a pass and plan on footing the bill for it to. Something just doesn't sound right.I might rethink that arraignment. Just my opinion. I know if my husband first had me wait 24 hours for an answer on if he wanted to be together. Then request a separation of at least a week or so after he said yes, would have put me on high alert about the plans he was making and with who over the last 24 hours. Once again just my new jaded opinion.

^^THIS^^

This all sounds a little too convenient. She's basically agreed to everything you asked, but also wants to separate for a few weeks to get her head straight??? Be careful. Call me skeptical, but she very well could have taken 24 hours to get her PLANS straight, get a burner phone, and this "separation" will allow her to go ahead with her plans with the OM.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like gaslighting to me. Please be careful in how much you trust her right now. We've seen this a LOT here over the years, and it very well could be that she's taking this 2 weeks to eat cake.

It's all just a little too coincidental to me. There's a saying around here to "trust, but verify". Your WW hasn't earned any trust yet, and running away to a hotel is NOT the best way to start earning it.

Sorry Hoosier, but I think there is still more to this story.

The more I think about this and the more coffee...I don't agree with the separation. Too easy for her to carry on what could be an affair and escalate it.

Also, she seems to take a lot of time deciding something. It bothers me that her wanting to move out to get her head on straight is another delaying tactic.

And I don't think her moving out, her taking all of this time to get her head straight is fair to you.

IMO, moving out sounds like she wants to be married and play single.

You are handling this really well, IUHoosier. Hang in there and stay strong!

In the book "how to help your spouse heal from your affair", it is highly recommended that the WS only move out if it is what the BS wants. My WS asked our MC if he really needed to abide by that!!!! (read: he wanted to eat cake and not be forced to make a choice ). You are extremely lucky and smart to have found SI at the very beginning. I would have done better had I had all these wise people to advise me in the beginning!!!!

Her wanting to leave for a week or two does not pass the smell test for me. Do you have a spare room she can sleep in? Or a friend of the marriage that she can stay with ? Give this some thought ....

I don't like the moving out things either.

First, she could be 'testing the waters' with OM, so to speak, in order to gauge whether there's a chance of a "real" relationship there. She's basically allowing herself to see what it would be like if she were single and had the choice between two dudes.

Fuck that.

You're not 'some dude', you're her husband. She took vows to you. She either keeps them , or she doesn't.

Second, if you do agree to let her move out: plant a VAR somewhere in the hotel room. That way if she calls OM or (god forbid) invites him over, you will know, and you will have your answer.

If she moves out, you need to be 100% clear with her: Any contact whatsoever is grounds for divorce. Not a text, not a facebook message or comment.

We do have a few extra bedrooms and she has been sleeping in the guest room the last couple days.

Moving out was her therapist's idea. My wife says she is suffering from some severe codependent issues and is going to a support group this Saturday to see if she likes it. It's this codependency issue that her IC thinks would be best solved with a week or two isolated.

I don't know. This is something she "has" to do from her perspective and I won't be able to change her mind. I know I'm going to have to figure a way to "know" that she has really ended with the guy and friend. Not sure if that's possible though if we are not under the same roof. I just don't think there's anything else I can do. Going to have to wait and see how this plays out. It's heartbreaking, but at easy I have prepared myself (with the help of this board) for the potential D.

The problem I have with the move out for a couple of weeks is that it completely ignores that Trust has been destroyed. The biggest issue your w needs to work on is the fact that she has caused you a ton of pain.

Frankly her suggestion makes it sound like she doesn't get what she has done at all.

It is not fair to you.

I don't like the temporary separation is that it brings into play a bunch of magical thinking.

She does not need to sit in a hotel room to go through a rational thought process.

If she is going to stay by herself to judge whether to stay in the M by her *feelings* while away from you - how much she misses or does not miss you - the M will likely end up with the short end of the stick. A feelings competition while she is in an EA is a no win situation.

I just don't think there's anything else I can do.

Sure there is. Have you begun the 180? Work on you for a while. Eff her. Who are you outside of her? Yep, I understand that you want the M. Desperately. That takes two to tango and she's not ready to dance, so what are you going to do?

Hobbies? Friends? Who are you independent of her?

Strength brother

What's the 180?

The 180 is basically where you detach from your spouse and focus on you so if you reconcile or divorce you are okay either way.

Someone will leave a link.

The 180 is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

And more 180 info under the target thread here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

yop

The 180 is a way of detaching from the environment she's creating and finding the strength and space you need to heal. It's # 11 in the BS FAQ's in the healing library. Here's the link

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

Read and implement. It's a fantastic tool.

I agree with everyone else it was strange for the therapist to suggest this.

Well if you are comfortable with this okay but I would randomly check in on her.

Just saying.

Ok so when I first read your post this morning I was conflicted, as I too like all the others have said felt weird, and "Not quite right" about her moving out.

Now with the information that her IC recommended it, I can at least understand where it's coming from. I also thing the IC is off base on this.

Your wife has single handedly broken your trust, and almost destroyed your M, giving her room to learn to be independent right now just doesn't make sense to me.

I get that she may have chosen to stay, because she is afraid to be alone. I get that she wants to make it work, and in fact would have bet lunch that she would have said I'm staying to work it out. There are ways to work on breaking Codependent behaviors, habits, and thought processes without moving out.

See I feel that her being alone at a time when she knows what she has done, and is probably going to really start gripping the implications of it is not smart. The temptation to reach out to someone other than you, and being encouraged to become less codependent from the IC at the same time is a recipe for contacting the OM, or even someone new.

She made the choices she made because she broken, and before she can cure her codependency issues she needs to figure out the why of her choices thus far.

I would give her some work to do if she does move out temporarily. Reading Not just friends, and a few other books would be the top of the list.

If it were me, I would consider a different IC therapist. I mean honestly. A therapist coming up with issues that requires a wife separate from her husband at the time of a possible affair.

Something about all of this sounds off.

Are you sure that your wife's therapist did actually suggest this, or could it be something your wife is only telling you so she can separate?

Can you talk to the therapist about this yourself and get some kind of clarification.

Her ic has not had experience or is not qualified to deal with infidelity.

You should have a talk with him/her.

Just my opinion.

I believe you are getting some fantastic advice with regards to the separation. I for one also completely disagree with this. Trust has been shattered and the only way it will even begin to return is if she can consistently show you where she is at literally at all times, can't do that so well from the hotel can she? Who she is maintaining NC with, can't do that so well from a work phone can she? It all sounds FAR too convenient and textbook advice the WS playbook would dole out. In addition, the current plan will likely leave you with major doubts and questions that quite frankly will be nearly impossible to ever answer and trust... Did she actually go NC, did she see the Canadians, {fill in the blank with any one of thousands more doubts}.

In the end this is about YOU and YOUR needs and simply stated, I do not see how this plan accomplishes that even in the slightest. It is still about her, and while none of us will ever fully understand toxic wayward thinking, I'd imagine however that if I had 24 hours to figure out how to keep the bakery open, my plan would look eerily similar to this.

In my situation I had kicked my wayward out (who is also codependent, more to follow later) and by the next afternoon I realized that the doubt left on what she was doing, who she was with, who she was texting etc would be far and away the single most damaging piece to any future attempts at R. I demanded she move back in, and quite honestly that is the only reason we're still trudging along. I do not regret for a moment my decision to verify then trust. This was probably the the most critical decision which I found the strength to make early on.

WRT the advice from the counselor about codependency being the driver and the need for temporary out of house separation at this critical juncture is completely wrong for this situation (if she even actually gave this advice which I would HIGHLY doubt). Would you tell an alcoholic that running away to the mountains for a few weeks to be isolated would best solve their issues? Would you tell a sex addict to chain themselves to a chair would make them no longer wish to go to strip clubs? The advice the counselor "gave" is merely white knuckling and assuming it will go away which as we all know is not how you solve issues. I do not claim to be an expert or even really that knowledgeable about codependency but the parallels between all 12 step meetings (AA, SLAA, CoDA, etc.) is remarkable and they are worked on via a similar process. The advice completely and utterly falls outside the lines of these processes.

Stay strong brother, you are handling this with FAR more strength than most of us did.

IU Hoosier

Huge alarm bells are going off for me about her moving to a hotel.

Many BSs need some space from the WS after Dday (myself included) & we ask the WS to leave because we can't even look at them after what they have done to us , & we can't imagine how we can possibly go back with a person who would disregard & disrespect us like that.

And you can read threads on the Wayward Forum where the WS agonizes in anguish about being asked to leave after what they have done, & they are just praying they will be allowed to return home & be given the gift of R.

But in all the time I have been on SI, & all the stories I have read, when the WS says they want to separate "to think about things", it ALWAYS means they want to see what it would be like to be single & check out the relationship with OM.

Sorry to say, but there is no way she would even be thinking of leaving if she has really picked you.

I think she is taking it underground. She probably already has a secret phone, & has already given OM the heads up to disregard the NC message she sent with you watching.

You say the IC told her to separate because she is co-dependent? How do you know the IC said that, because your WW said she did? You can't believe a word a cheater says at this point.

OK, codependency is a serious issue that takes a lot of time to work on (I know because I have it).

But right now, the #1 priority is for your WW to do whatever you need to help you heal from what she has done.

Why is the focus on what she needs right now? You are the victim here. The focus should be on the damage she has done.

There will be plenty of time in the coming months to work on the codependency, & your WW can do it while living in the house with you---let her stay in the spare bedroom.

Does her IC know anything about infidelity? That is not good advice, if IC really did say that, IMO.

I don't believe the IC told her that. I don't buy it---I think your WW is just telling you what she thinks you want to hear.

I know you want to save your marriage, but you have to draw a line in the sand right now about what you need in order to R, because if you don't, she may go deeper into the relationship with OM,

&/or if you do end up Reconciling, you will not get what you truly need to heal (the latter is what happened to me, because I wanted the marriage to work so badly that I did not stand up for myself strongly enough from the beginning.)

You have been doing a great job IU Hoosier. Keep it up. Imagine us all standing behind you.

You know we are just trying to help you avoid the mistakes that we all made.

Its really something how these WSs all behave the same way----it truly is almost like there is a Cheater's Handbook.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 10:33 AM, May 16th (Friday)]