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Considering the past, I would seriously wonder about a child protective services visit, at the very least. What she did is likely considered a felony. If you go that route, I would also consult an attorney for your culpability for what happened while you were married.

Please let that sink in. What she has done is likely a FELONY. Time in prison.

[This message edited by wonderpets at 7:21 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]

Naturegirl, I came out of an abusive marriage and I'm also a child sexual abuse survivor, no person who sexually abuses or participates should be commended.

AD says he stopped right away, contacted authorities etc. However his first post said until she orgasmsed. That is not immediately stopping. I would also like to know what authorities he contacted. These children are in very serious danger from both parents.

I came out of an abusive marriage and I'm also a child sexual abuse survivor

Same for me on both counts. If it's okay with you, I'll offer support in my own way.

Is there anyway to get sole custody or an emergency order to get them away from this pos train wreck ex and her loser bf?

Abbondad - I feel that one of your big issues in all this, is that you were complicit, groomed, but complicit. Has your solicitor/counsellor talked to you about what would happen if you/they had to report something she did...and then she brought all of this up? Is this one of your fears about getting CPS involved?

NG- I forget, how did the CPS thing work for you?

And BTW, we all know that no-one can work on something until they admit it. We also know that co-dependency can gradually lead us into a place where we are doing things that we would never have dreamed of. Abbondad has had the guts not only to face those things with a counsellor AND take the quite considerable risk of getting his children into counselling themselves (not something an abuser would be comfortable with)due to what they may say. He's also now taking the step of telling others. All of this smacks of true remorse and true change. None of that makes what happened ok. But Abbondad knows that.

Thankfully, The Arse is not an child abuser. My own co-dependency led to my accepting The Arse's passive aggressive emotional abuse & gaslighting of me, to such an extent, that I believed that I was the one causing all the problems. That when he said completely unreasonable things in a reasonable way, I didn't question it. And I'm still struggling with this,a year after he left. So much so, that I want separate rooms for mediation. It has taken a long time to realise this. I can't imagine how hard it is to admit,process and start to deal with what NG and Abbondad have/are.

[This message edited by Softcentre at 1:20 AM, May 19th, 2014 (Monday)]

Is this one of your fears about getting CPS involved?

My fear is not what she would say specifically with regard to these incidents. I am certain she does not remember; these are not abnormal actions to her. They have no significance for her. My fear is what she would fabricate completely. I do not over-dramatize: I have witnessed a complete psychotic break in front of me; she demonstrates magical thinking; has expressed suicidal ideation numerous times over the years; and has a history of mental illness.

What I will broach to my attorney is what we did consider in the past, and then abandoned--court-ordered psychiatric evaluations for both of us. Foolish in hindsight that we did abandon it.

My therapist (again, she has worked closely with CPS services for many years) was very disturbed when I related these incidents but agrees with my attorney (they have communicated) that at this time I do not have a strong case for sole custody. Both recommend that I remain vigilant and continue to document and stay in communication with the children's psychologist.

DS came to me last night "sad," expressing "I don't think I love Mommy as much as I used to." My heart broke. XW then emailed me that he had texted her saying he was "sad" and asked for details. I am so upset that I could not tell her anything but the usual generic platitudes for fear of her vicious blame shifting. She has an appointment with the kids' psychologist this morning. Maybe he will get her to understand how her and her boyfriend's actions are affecting our children, but I doubt it.

Thank you so much for your understanding and support.

I had a full-on parenting evaluation done as part of my divorce, including extensive psychological testing for both me & my ex. This was crucial in protecting my children from his deviant sexuality. It was also extremely expensive.

The parenting eval is what cut through my ex's lies and exposed him as the personality disordered individual that he is. I know another divorcing mom who had a parenting evaluation done. It, too, exposed her deviant husband for the sick, personality disordered person he is.

It may be the case that you need to have this done in order to save your children. As you've probably gathered by now, the family court system can and will do nothing to prevent child abuse. It will only react after the damage is done. The best tool out there for those of us who are dealing with actual sick people is the parenting evaluation that includes full-on psychological testing, multiple interview, witness testimonies, and so forth.

Please talk about this with your attorney. It may be time.

Jesus Pete AD, This just blows.

It's not enough all the shit you have been through and dealt with, now this Batshit Crazy Biatch has to F with your kids mental well being.

I am honestly furious for you, and it's a good thing that I don't know her name, and where she lives, because when I come down to FL in July I would be very tempted to seek her out, and ask her on a one way fishing trip.

You are doing this right. You have allowed your son to give this info to his therapist first. This protects you from he said she said. You have placed his needs first and formost.

As a mom of two, who is not ashamed of her body, and has a very open door policy in the house, it sucks that you are going to have to be sure you NEVER do anything that could be misconstrued as inappropriate, that includes snuggle time without a shirt on. Which if it were me would really take some thought and practice.

Oh and this douchebag that is verbally abusing your kids, yah he needs a good old fashioned whooping. How dare he speak to them in such a way. Make sure that you are documenting all of this, and see if the kids therapist will engage them in a line of questioning that will allow documentation of the level of verbal abuse they are being subjected to.

Keep putting them first and foremost in your thoughts and deeds and it will eventually all work.

(((and strength))))

forced my fingers into her vagina in their presence until she orgasmed.

What I am hearing here is you not taking responsibility for performing a sexual act in front of your children, blanket or no blanket. You say she "forced" you to do it "until she orgasmed". But that you then immediately contacted someone. My concern is that you are placing the blame for that incident wholly on her. It disturbs me that so many people seem to be praising you for "working on this issue". I think perhaps you need to do MUCH more work, for the sake of those kids. You need to accept full responsibility for your part in exposing your kids to inappropriate sexual actions. And I don't hear that from you...just blaming the other person.

Now, it sounds like she clearly does more of it than you. But you DID take part in it at one point. You have admitted it. Now own it, at least in counseling, so that you can receive the proper help. Your own boundaries seem so fluid, based on the story you've related here on SI. Shore them up. Be better.

The reason I'm trying to support Abd is because I know that working on a problem as big & horrible as this is a process. Even understanding the scope of the problem is a process. It takes many passes around it before you can understand what's actually happened, and even then more details will emerge as your mind's ability to accept what's happened increases.

I am still coming to terms with what happened to me & the children during my marriage. It is a process. New details come to light and the process starts all over again. No progress could be made if I didn't start somewhere. I believe this is what Abd is doing with the confessions in this thread. He's starting somewhere.

I am still having memories surface after all these years and after all the hundreds of hours of counseling & group therapy. Memories of events & conversations that my mind buried deep. When these memories break through into my consciousness it is a process to unpack them. What happened, what was said, what was the impact, how do I feel about it now, what do I do with this information, what do I need to change in order to go forward as a better, healthier person? It isn't easy. It starts with acknowledging there's a problem, that something happened.

So yes, what Abd did is disgusting. It's horrible. I am willing to trust the process, though. I'm willing to bet he's trying to understand WTF happened and come to terms with it. I'm willing to bet that he needs to and will fully work through the revulsion & shame & guilt without me heaping more coals on his head. But it's going to take time. He may not use words here which make sense to others, he may not sound like he's taking responsibility the way we think he should. But I bet it's happening in his own way. He's admitted the problem. He's working on understanding it. He's taking steps to get help for his children. He's doing what he can to legally prevent additional damage. That's actually a lot of progress. So I'm giving the man some credit.

[This message edited by Nature_Girl at 2:40 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

I'm with NG here. He is taking responsibility. He refused to do it again, realized he was uncomfortable with it and that it was inappropriate, got the kids into IC, got himself into IC, and has D'd his XW. Just because he isn't here on a forum stating it in words that you want to hear doesn't mean he isn't working on it.

Anyone that is abused in anyway, sexually, physically, emotionally, etc., may look back at things they did and be horrified by them. That doesn't make them deviant. When someone has been abused they are conditioned to do things in a certain way to make things to temper the response of the abuser. It's why battered women don't leave. It looks logical to others...hey, he hit you, leave! It isn't so easy after years of being conditioned. Once they do leave and look back, they can see how twisted things are/were.

AD has been taking huge strides, for himself, and for his children this past year. He's going in the right direction, and he's going to make sure his kids and him get everything they need. If he were afraid for his actions, he would hide all of it. He's not.

I hope you have enough documentation soon AD to have the kids with her less and less. Her and her OM are both sick.

Well said, NG. Well said.

Hang in there AD. We're here for you.

^^What NG said, absolutely. Throwing stones isn't going to help AD or his kids.

Sending strength to you AD.

***As a member***

In the almost 12 years of participating on this site, I have yet to see anything close to as nauseating as this.

For those of you that have suffered through such horrible abuse...thank you for your patience and support to AD.

However, don't condemn those of us that find this beyond shocking and disgusting. As NG stated several times...it takes time to process. That processing also goes for us trying to wrap our heads around how someone can stand by and watch this unfold and do nothing until the damage is already done.

I'm sorry for AD and all that he's gone through, but my heart aches with sadness knowing what those children have witnessed without protection from the very people that should have stood in a line of fire to make sure nothing so horrible like this ever would have happened in the first place.

What a horribly sad and tragic situation for an entire family

As a Member,

I too am struggling a great deal with this thread. Not saying something, not adding my voice to this thread in fear of making people angry or being judged as harsh or unsupportive makes me feel complicit in the whole thing. It isn't ok.

AD, I am glad you are getting help now. I hope you are. I hope the conversations with the therapists are genuine and offer full disclosure. I can't lie though, I find it ironic that we are defending the healing process of grown adults so vehemently in this thread. Grown adults who know how to get themselves help, have choices, and access to resources. These children don't. So I pray that they are truly getting the help they will need. And I won't be made to feel bad about that. They are the only ones here who had NO choice.

I have to say thank you to the mods who have posted as members.

I could possibly begin to somewhat support him if he had admitted to what he's done and sought help for HiS part. But I have yet to read where he has gotten help for what he has done. Has he been honest with therapist about his involvement? Because as mandated reporters I can't imagine them just turning their heads. I have been praying for these kids since I read all this. I just can't believe the reactions.

It's not like AD is showing remorse for what he has done. He is minimizing his part in hurting his children!

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad. I'm just trying to explain what it's like to have to face & deal with abuse that goes into the realm of abomination. I'm also trying to explain why I'm trying to encourage Abd in what seems like his efforts to get help, both for himself and his children. If there is to be ANY hope whatsoever for these children, then it is in their best interest to have a father who can get his shit together & assist in the process of bringing them to safety. Hopefully those of us who have truly been to the depths of sexually-deviant hell can offer experience or support that can help him.

FTR, I think being disgusted & horrified is the most natural response to what's been shared here.

DS, you said it better than I could. I don't know if the "throwing stones" comment was directed at me. I was in no way throwing stones. I was commenting that I don't see him taking responsibility for his own actions. Yes, healing is a process, but like meta said, he is an adult. Who made a choice. The children were not given a choice. I'm just astonished that so many people are letting this ride. As a mandated reporter myself, if this was related to me in a conversation IRL, there is no question it would be reported. Especially when I hear the blame place squarely and bitterly on someone else.

I am a little concerned about this comment - Anyone that is abused in anyway, sexually, physically, emotionally, etc., may look back at things they did and be horrified by them. That doesn't make them deviant. Perhaps that was mis-stated? Anyone that is abused may look back on what THEY did and be horrified? I was sexually molested over several years as a very small child. I didn't do anything that horrified me. Then or now. I was child, being abused.

Perhaps being a victim of abuse makes me feel more for these children, because I know what it's like to have no one speak for you, because they are fighting other battles? I think not...I think I would feel the same had I never been a victim of abuse. Because I am a human being, and a parent, who knows right from wrong.

I do not know AD. I know we only see here what each person chooses to post about themselves or their situation. None of us can have the full story. So I commented on what *I* saw..someone who used language to convey that they were placing blame on someone else for their OWN actions. And that terrifies me for those children. That's why I said I hope he is "owning it" in therapy. His language indicated that he is not there yet. "Minimizing" as hummingbird said.

Yes, we are here to support each other. But last time I looked, we also call each other out on things when necessary. I fully support anyone trying to improve their life. I fully support the honesty, too. But the honesty shown here does not seem to show a true understanding of his own involvement in exposing those kids to inappropriate sexual behavior.

I'm also surprised that anyone would support that statement AD made about his own actions, because it looks like (to them) that he may be trying to improve the lives of his children NOW. Yes, bravo to that (seriously). But the damage HE brought down on them....HIM....does not just go away because he's trying to change. And I commented on the posting because he does not seem to have taken responsibility for his part in that damage....he seems to want to deflect ALL of it onto his XWW.

I learned long ago, in a very sad way, that someone needs to speak for children. That it is very hard for them to truly have a voice. The first step is in noticing that there is a problem. He himself admitted the problem here, and then pointed to someone else. I could not rest easy tonight if I didn't say something, for the sake of those kids.

Finally, it may be that AD did not phrase his statement well. That perhaps he DOES own his part in damaging the kids. Maybe he is working on it in therapy. I can only speak to what I read. None of us can know for sure what really goes on in each other's lives, so I ask that we not bash EACH OTHER for commenting on what a member has posted about him/herself. Hope that makes sense.

AD, I have to say that the activity you described and your recounting of it is a bit *suspect*. I can see your WW grabbing your hand and placing it on her 'girl bits'.....bit O's don't happen *just* from a laying on of the hand. It takes time and manipulation. That was not something that you had done *to* you.....you participated.

Having said that......I have also dealt with a spouse who is *fucked-up* in the head and I understand how that spouse's behavior can *make* you do things that a 'rational' person wouldn't do. BTDT and will (most likely) NEVER tell the tale.

Having an abusive-type spouse is a mind-fuck that is ONLY *see-able* from the rear-view mirror.....

I am trying to wrap my head around the whole "in front of the kids, she made me finger her until she orgasmed, but it was under a blanket" explanation.

I am also trying to find a way to give AD the benefit of the doubt.

If the genders of this story were reversed, would it be less disturbing to readers of this thread?

If Abbonmom said "in front of the kids, he made me stroke him with my hand until he orgasmed but it was under a blanket" - wouldn't it sound like he was abusing both her and the kids?

Is it hard to accept that a wife would sexually abuse/groom her husband and her kids? Because she's a woman? Because since he's a man he could "just say no and stop?"