SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It might take me a while to get through this. This is the first post I've made about myself. It hurts so badly. Guess I'm testing the waters with SI though I've been lurking for months.

I've read all about the "fog". I just don't buy it. It sounds like people are arguing that bc the WS is "broken" and in a "fog", we should try to put on our big girl pants and work with this broken person. Bc we are stronger and better than them? I just don't like the way this fog is presented as an excuse or reason.

Here's the crux of where I really need help. My WH had a EA and PA and says that he broke up with her, but that he still had tickets to a concert that he really wanted to go to, and they agreed to go only as friends (hundreds of texts and hours of talking after breaking up - and god knows what else). That night before he left for the concert, I called him and poured my heart out to him on the phone. Acknowledged that I thought our relationship was stressed but I was working so hard on it and loved him to death and couldn't wait til he got home because I was going to do this and that to his gorgeous body etc. He expressed similar feelings to me, but still chose to go to the concert with her. Well, I waited and waited at home for him, texted and called him, and he never showed up. Literally, never came home. It wasn't the first time he didn't come home, but it was the first time we had made plans to hang out after he went out with his friends. The bottom line is I caught him at her house. He had fallen asleep after going to the concert with her and f*cking her that night. After they "broke up".

The kicker is, not even 10 hours later, he tells me it's over with her, he's devoted to me, etc etc. How can he 180 like that? So quickly? How can he have me waiting at home for him, but choose her and only when he was literally caught in the act say that he wants me? How is this "the fog" he needed to come out of? How do you come out of the fog so quickly? I don't buy it.

Do you all think it's a sham? Does the fog go away in a poof of a second?

Love to you all, my new, broken hearted friends.

Awwwww! I feel your pain. Agree that your husband sounds like he was in a moronic fog more then anything else. I think the "fog" refers to people who aren't thinking straight because they think they are in love or what ever other delusion they are suffering from with this other person. I think a person can lift that fog in a single moment of clarity absolutely. I think he clearly saw the moment where he was going to lose you and it lifted the fog for him instantly. The sad part is that if he had this moment sooner it could have saved you the heartbreak. But...I guess that's why we're all here.

Big hugs!

Hey there.

It sounds like people are arguing that bc the WS is "broken" and in a "fog", we should try to put on our big girl pants and work with this broken person.

While some might advocate that, I think that you'll find that the VAST majority of us don't excuse a foggy WS one bit. Yeah, they may be living in lala land, but you don't baby them along and pretend that the Emperor isn't necked and hope that they agree.

You snap their asses out of it. Fire hose of cold reality blasted into the middle of them.

Take your WH. IF he was truly remorseful AND wanted to be only with you, he never would have even considered going to that concert with his AP. You cannot be "just friends" with a person that you have conspired with, to murder your marriage and stab your spouse in the back with. Instead of, and I apologize for the really blunt words, doing the Pick Me Pick Me dance by telling him what a wonderful time YOU were going to give HIM, when he dragged himself back from having fun with his AP, you should have told him that this was unacceptable behavior to you and that if he chose to go, there would be consequences. Personally, he would have come back to find his clothing on the lawn of the AP and new locks installed on the doors. Instead of hitting him with cold reality, you essentially bought into his fantasy by agreeing that this was OK and that you would gladly be waiting for him at home while he disrespected you.

And disrespect you he did. His fantasy was never even challenged, so he went ahead and screwed his AP, knowing that you would still be waiting up for him whenever he got home.

Affairs are like cockroaches. They thrive and breed in silence, darkness, and secrecy. But turn on the light, and they go running for the corners to hide. You cannot "nice" your WH back. It will not work. It simply will not. The only thing it will do is to show him that you are willing to take 3rd place (or lower) in your marriage/relationship. Your WH is getting to eat all of the cake he wants in the bakery. Shut that right down. His words mean nothing his actions are telling you exactly what you need to know. That's he's doing the minimum necessary to make sure that you are on the back burner for him, while he does whatever he wants.

You are worth far more than that. Don't settle for anything other than what you deserve! (((hugs)))

God, Thanks to you both for responding. I've been so lonely and feeling crazy.

I think I wasn't clear... the night he went to the concert, I still didn't know he was having an affair. I was very, very, very suspicious, but never dreamed he was going there with that homewrecker. (talk about denial) Maybe he figured I did know.

I'm trying to believe he came out of the fog so quickly and it helps to hear that it might be possible, but the pain is confusing me.

The fog is not an excuse. It is just an explanation of what is going on in a waywards head.

Hell, we all have fogs sometimes. Those feel good chemicals, I got them from running and sparring.

The fog is, IMO, very much self induced, though. It is like a child wanting something not good for him and convincing himself it is good. He will tell himself whatever lie is necessary in justifying wanting something that isn't healthy.

Can the child reason, definitely or he wouldn't be able to come up with BS reasons to justify.

Honey, what are his consequences?

Telling a WS right after he cheated how wonderful his body is and what you want to do to it is not a consequence.

Begging him does not come from a standpoint of strength.

You cannot control his behavior or actions no matter what you say or do. However, you can control your actions, and you can control his consequences.

If you continue with this codependent behavior, you not only enable him, but you let him know that you don't think that you deserve better.

I say this from my own experiences.

I was so pathetic the first few days. True I kicked him out, but then I begged him not to go.

I rewarded him by playing the "pick me" dance.

Honey, I got what I asked for and told him I deserved. He BARELY took his A underground.

We did reconcile, but it was mostly rugsweeping. Just before I joined SI I was finally strong enough to make my demands and stand by them. He is a coward and refused to do anything but expect more rugsweeping. I was done,

I truly hope your H doesn't behave like the coward mine did, but only you can decide what you will put up with.

Hugs and strength being sent your way. This shit is so heartbreaking.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 3:12 PM, May 25th (Sunday)]

I hate words like the "fog" and descriptions such as "broken". In my opinion, it's just selfishness.

Shattered,

My advice is to pick up a copy of "Not Just Friends" and keep reading here. I don't know your situation, or your husband. I don't know if he is truly remorseful, or just finding a way to take the affair underground. The question you are asking us really has no answer. But, I can say this -- will many, many waywards drop their APs like a hot potato when they are found out, never to look back? Yes. Can they still be foggy? Yes. My H thought he loved the AP. It took him a couple weeks to realize that was wrong, and about 2 months to fully see the breadth of the damage he caused. Heck, he is still recognizing it, in different ways, at 11 months out.

So, watch, wait, read and have him read NJF. It is going to take a lot of work and talking and help to get through this.

I am sorry you find yourself here - but you will be ok. I promise.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 5:10 PM, May 24th (Saturday)]

It sounds like people are arguing that bc the WS is "broken" and in a "fog", we should try to put on our big girl pants and work with this broken person.

I think the terms 'fog' and 'broken' generally just describe the WS. They mean, among other things:

Don't expect good thinking from the WS, even if the WS is committed to R.

Do expect outrageous and/or stupid statements, even if the WS is committed to R.

Do expect over-entitlement and hard-to-believe selfishness, especially from unremorseful WSes.

Do expect that a foggy, broken WS who shows remorse may be a good candidate for R, if you're considering R.

Do expect that a foggy, broken WS who doesn't show remorse is not a good candidate for R, so don't consider R at this time.

Etc.

I haven't seen writers advising that WSes should be given slack because they're broken or foggy, but I could have missed them.

I agree with you, though - if someone told me to work with my W because she's broken, I'd probably be angry myself. I thought my W was broken; I chose to work with her because she committed to fixing herself.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:20 PM, May 24th (Saturday)]

Shatterd, read the thread "I don't believe in wayward's fog" in General. Many valid, although sometimes conflicting, opinions. For my money, bionicgal nails it.

From what you're describing, I'd classify your WH's behavior as lying and cake-eating, not foggy. Based solely on this one single post, I'm skeptical that he ended anything.

I encourage you to tell your story in Just Found Out, even if you actually found out months ago. IMO you should be shopping for bitch boots, not big girl pants, and the ladies up in JFO can help you find a really nice pair.

Whoops

[This message edited by wonderpets at 12:42 AM, May 25th (Sunday)]

before marriage, my h had an affair and said"I love her so much" to me. I'll never forget how much that hurt my heart .

Within a month grew told me that gfs was trying to hurt me with his words and that he felt the need to justify the not so earth shattering sex.

Absolutely selfish. he wasn't thinking like a committed partner. I think we use the word fog to indicate the ridiculous brain excuses WS give themselves in order to justify their selfishness.

I've read all about the "fog". I just don't buy it. It sounds like people are arguing that bc the WS is "broken" and in a "fog", we should try to put on our big girl pants and work with this broken person. Bc we are stronger and better than them? I just don't like the way this fog is presented as an excuse or reason.

I really don't understand where people get this impression.

People act like assholes and deny extant reality in order to feed their fantasies. This isn't even something that is particular to infidelity. People convince themselves of increasingly ridiculous bullshit about all sorts of things so they can justify the damage they do to themselves and others.

That doesn't mean they aren't aware of what they're doing or somehow lack agency and therefore responsibility. At best it just means they're being petty. At worst they are willfully excluding the wants and emotions - and pain - of people close to them. Think about intentionally ignoring someone writhing in pain because it's just easier and more comfortable than moving your boot from their neck while you get some cookies from the pantry.

As for whether or not you buy it, that's for you to decide. I sure wouldn't believe he did a complete turnaround right there. Actions need to accompany those words, and he has to spend however long it takes proving what he says and earning back your trust - if you want to give him that chance. You're not obligated to do that. Well, maybe you are, I dunno your obligations. I didn't feel obligated to give my wife the chance to prove she meant what she said, but I did want to.

My WH talked about being in that fog and caught up in the sin...I just wonder when the WS first hears about this if it's a good crutch to lean on - the perfect "excuse". I'm getting kind of sick of hearing it and not even sure how much I believe it... KWIM?

IMO, WSes are in a fog while cheating. You can't R with someone unless she's out of the fog and remorseful.

Key indicators of being out of the fog and remorseful are going and keeping NC, IC, MC, answering questions honestly when you ask, listening to you vent with getting defensive ... generally owning their shit and changing.

A WS who says something like, 'I did that because I was in a fog' while doing the work of R is probably describing her experience and not making excuses.

A WS who's asking you to cut her some slack because she was in a fog is probably just making excuses, still unremorseful.

Your H seems very self-absorbed. And to me, it seems you might be giving him complete control over your being. I don't know your story, I would assume you are a 'young' person. You possibly have not had experience, through relationships, to know when you have lost yourself to someone. Whether you remain with your H, or not, you will be more stable in life if you don't give the inner-core of who you are to someone else to manipulate.

His concert excuses, to still go, were absurd. There is no fog on his part. He clearly knew beforehand what might develop afterward. The only fog is the fog he wanted to create in your mind to be OK with it. If it smells fishy, it's probably fish. I give you much credit for questioning. Stay with your gut to decide your fate with him.

I do believe, once caught in an affair, it can jar a person to consider their life without their spouse. For some, it could be life altering to change. For others, it is just an alert to change their tactics of the affair. There should never be a reason for him not to come home at a reasonable hour, on any night that he goes out. Only you can decide if your H actions are a sham. I believe the concert going was a sham. In regard to his remorse 10 hours later, watch and see. And, I do mean watch. If there are any other con-jobs that he explains for doing things with 'friends', please don't live life that way. Don't live through a man, live for the good life through yourself. And always - peace.

Never believe this statement:

I just couldn't help myself. If a person literally cannot help screwing another person then they are no better than an animal.

Do not engage in bestiality. If a person is no more than an animal them remove that animal from your life.

It's better to rescue a dog from the shelter than to try to rescue a person who is nothing but an asshole at the core.

Shattered~

I'm so sorry, this is the most the heartbreaking, gut wrenching experience. You are strong and you will survive.

My suggestion is this; don't believe a thing he says right now. Watch what he does.

Does he read (NJF, How to Help your Spouse Heal etc)? Is he in IC? Did he willingly send a NC letter that you read?

Big hugs to you, you are not alone.

Oops, double post.

[This message edited by Morhurt at 12:15 PM, May 26th (Monday)]

hmmm...well...I kind of have a reputation for being angry and firm. My response is that your husband is a prick. He is not foggy...he is disgusting. He is violating both you and his whore. Do you believe he is worth this dishonor? Do you work outside the home? Perhaps go to school or own a business? I think you should spend time making yourself happy and forget this creatures is even on the planet.

and warm hugs...I know it hurts like a son of a bitch. That is why I am so firm in my believes. They cause terrible pain and suffering then beg and cry and promise. They knew all along it would hurt, but they thought they were so smart they would not be revealed. The clown you are married to absolutely did not care if he revealed his cheating to you. Kick his ass out of the house TODAY!....and then start a new business or buy a new kitten....take a vacation or eat a bowl of icecream. Do something productive that makes YOU FEEL GOOD! He is a loser.

The fog is their own fantasy land...however, does not imply they are not responsible for their actions. I know when my WS was in the fog, but he is still just as accountable and culpable in or out of it. I think as BS we sometimes put up with it because we love our spouses/partner's so much and don't know how to pull the rug out from under them at that point in time. It took me 4 months to get the emotional strength to stay enough is enough. So in some ways, I was in my own fog.

In regards to your question, can they come out quickly...yep. About the time the A implodes on them...however, I have also found they can slip back into it too....just going underground.

I advise to take things slowly. Take care of yourself. Get some individual counseling for yourself and decide what you want to do. In the meantime, your WS will show you what you need to know. Will he be there to help you heal or will he go underground. That will help you make future decisions. I would recommend deciding boundaries and consequences now before he breaks them. Such as "if he texts her...the consequence is...XXX; if he calls her...the consequence is XXX; if he opens a private email account...the consequence is XXX. I wish I would have done that when I was considering R. It would have made things easier.

We are here for you.