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Which basically means that you have given the green light for her to have a ONS and you will stay. There are a lot of unspoken things that are happening here in your M. She knows that you will stay if she finds the right opportunity for this to happen. She isn't looking for it, but if it shows up, she won't turn it down.

So again, I ask, is that the M you want? If it is, then stay.

I think maybe what were seeing is that her attitude is so flippant towards an A. Most people would have a " no way" attitude. Whereas her is "sure, if it came up". The mere fact that she said ' oh f that's how you feel I wouldn't' just makes me think she's trying to appease you.

You obviously know her. You are privy to the nuances within the conversation and we can only go by what you're telling us.

But I ask... If you thought there was no problem.. Indeed why are you here? I think the fact that you came here. And then posted maybe there is something your just not ready to admit just yet.

It's a crappy place to be... Were all just trying to help you avoid it.

Sadmamma

You're right, if I was happy with her having a ONS, I wouldn't have bothered posting at all. But I don't see it as black and white as many people seem to. If it was a question of any cheating, then M over, I also probably wouldn't have bothered posting as the path fwd would have been clear. I'm think maybe it's advice on how to cope with my feelings if it happens, and I think the chances are less than when I started the posts. Bottom line is no way a D if just a ONS. Maybe it's just me but I know of friend's M's where they say M over if any straying. But these same people live with the effects of alcoholism and verbal and physical abuse on their M. Again, don't get that either

Am I the only one (I read first two pages) who wonders why you are courting trouble? Your wife, to your knowledge, has not cheated on you. You go on trips--including a bachelor party-- without her; you say you haven´t cheated. Why are you assuming that she may cheat on this trip?

Edited to add: Maybe there is something pertinent to your fears that we just are not privy to, but I think you sort of condemning her before she has even committed a wrong. This might be more about your insecurities than her predilections.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 8:55 AM, June 19th (Thursday)]

Just be prepared. Most of us did not know what our reaction would really be until we experienced this nightmare.

Prior to my H's affairs - if I had been asked it would have been a deal breaker. Yet here I am 7 yrs out, R'd & happy.

So you may change your mind if it actually happens. But telling her there will be no consequences gives her a green light to do whatever she damn well pleases, and that's not really a healthy relationship.

Having an EA is not much of risk IMO as she is able to separate sex from emotion far easier than I can.

That makes it even easier for a woman to have a PA.

Just remember this

Just be prepared. Most of us did not know what our reaction would really be until we experienced this nightmare.

It is far different than just thinking about it. Once it happens, there is no going back to the way it was.

Yikes norwichman. This still makes me as nervous as hell for you. I have been following and each time I read this I get butterflies in my stomach like something bad is going to happen. Seeing the car crash before it happens and you are powerless to stop it. Like Sadmumma states, it's that flippant attitude make me nervous.

It is far different than just thinking about it. Once it happens, there is no going back to the way it was.

I concur. Be prepared.

On a side note, in a healthy M, if my wife showed me this much concern and anxiety over me going away, I just wouldn't do it. Because I love my wife and I wouldn't want her to feel like that.

yop

You say she keeps her word. Didn't your M ceremony have something about forsaking all others? Wasn't monogamy at least implied? How does ONS fit with that? And if she's at a resort for several days, how likely is a hookup to be just one night?

I think you're doing a job on yourself. What's really going on with you over this?

BTW, if you have to post in JFO after her vacation (and I sincerely hope you don't), you may get some advice to kick her out, but I suspect the majority of the advice will be to figure out what you want and go for that. One size does not fit all, and the vast majority of SIers know that.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:19 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]

Not much more to report since last post. Not going to keep on at W about it, she's got the message and has been rather quiet recently. The vacation starts next Wed when they fly out and she's promised to tell me of any approaches she gets from guys. She always has in the past, where even guys we've both known have made clumsy approaches to her when they've had a few.

As suggested, if anything happens guess I need to close this one off and open under JFO. But my fears are less than when I started this post which I know some of you will think is wishful thinking on my part

You're talking to people here that got burned, BURNED real bad. Some of us perhaps thought like you. We trusted with our eyes closed. There's a reason why we're all here now.

Raising my hand...because that describes my sitch to a "T". Once bitten, twice shy. I'll never trust like that again.

And my wife never openly expressed the belief that ONS and infidelity in general were OK like yours has.

Seriously man, stop the vacation and get yourselves into MC.

Your fear seems completely rational under the circumstances. And the pain is much worse and deeper than you can imagine. If you are not a BS, I recommend you take all reasonable steps to avoid becoming one. If not you will lose years of your life dealing with this.

She needs to get her head on straight, now.

She always has in the past,

I don't remember you saying she told you about the handyman until the other night when you brought up this subject.

So beware of her words as well.

I just hope you are not overly concerned when she gets back. I hope you do not let an overactive imagination get the best of you.

Because unless you have her followed for the entire vacation, you will never know for sure.

Make up your mind now, to trust her.

She said she couldn’t guarantee she wouldn’t, providing the circumstances were right. Meaning the guy would have to be of similar mind, just looking for no-strings-attached fun. Also he would need to be extremely hot, not just an average guy with smooth charm. I asked “Why, is there a problem with our sex life?” She said no, rather than this was a “sex with stranger” fantasy that lots of women have, but that said she could see herself living out. She also said it’s the excitement of the chase, sex with a new man and the thrill of the forbidden. Also the more unexpected the opportunity, the more the excitement.

First - no, lots of women do NOT have this fantasy. Women can have sex with a stranger any day we feel like it. Why fantasize about it? As far as 'I have no intentions of cheating on holiday' - she's saying part of the thrill is that it's unexpected. Therefore, if it happens it would never have been planned. That's not her fantasy.

She also said she would confess and that because of my non jealous nature that I’d shown to date, I would understand.

Gently, she's saying she knows she could do it, and you wouldn't do a thing. That's a HUGE lack of respect imo.

However, she said she’s never strayed before, but came near last year when she fancied a guy doing some building work for us. She confessed that had he made a pass, she would have found a way to spend a few hours with him. I recall her flirting with him, but he didn’t respond at all, so nothing happened.

How lucky for you huh? If the handyman had taken the bait, she'd have cheated. How nice.

I realize you find your wife incredibly attractive, and that's very nice, but a majority of women get hit on a lot. Men are the ones seeking this 'sex with a stranger' nonsense. The handyman was able to resist her charms, luckily for you. What happens when someone decides a roll in the hay sounds nice?

I'm sorry - but your wife is showing tremendous disregard for you or your feelings. Her comments, basically saying "I know I could cheat and you wouldn't do a damned thing" is really disrespectful.

I hope she doesn't cheat, but my money is on her cheating, either on holiday or at some other point - and don't think her friends are going to let you in on it. They won't. Thinking you'll find out because of them isn't reality.

I do not see this as a good ending, in any way. She's going to do what she wants. Why she even got married is a mystery since clearly she has no problem at wanting sex with strangers.

I think she should see an IC, and possibly you both should go to MC.

You assume that your wife will have an ONS and that will be the end of it. What if the lovemaking really turns her on; the encounter is exceptional? Well, she will keep on going back for more obviously, whether she becomes emotionally involved or not.

If she meets a hot guy in Ibiza and things really sizzle, then she'll spend the rest of the holiday screwing him. The return to hubby and the predictable sex will be quite anticlimactic. Better hope there's a shortage of hot guys in Ibiza. I can only repeat; you have the power to stop this; you would be wise to do so.

Can't see how I can stop her going on this trip at this late stage.

After having had conversations with her when she has promised not to cheat, it would send a strong message that I don't trust her. All it would do would just store up possible problems for another day. For the moment, I feel that it has to be based around trust on my part

I agree that you really can't stop your wife going on this trip without a nasty confrontation. So she is going.

So what do we know about this situation.

1] If the building guy had responded she would have had a brief affair last year. She did not tell you of her mind set at that time.

2] She will not guarantee that she won't have an affair if it is the right guy [hot male and willing].

3] You have said that you will forgive her for any brief affair she might have.

4] Also that you would get over the issue and move on; as long as it was just sex and emotions were not evolved.

5] She sees cheating as relatively harmless as long as emotions are not involved. She thinks you agree.

Considering the above I would say your wife will cheat at some time and will do so in Ibiza as long as the right guy is available. Again its consequences. All you have done is express concern and not consequences. She will tell you of her betrayal and broken promises after it has occurred, but also tell you she could not stop the sex, her feelings were too strong at the time, she lost self-control and it happened.

She intends to get her own way and cheat. She will make it up to you afterwards with hot sex. Maybe she will even claim the infidelity has increased her desire for you; a shot in the arm for your lovemaking. Lucky you.

After having had conversations with her when she has promised not to cheat, it would send a strong message that I don't trust her.

So? That's just the message you should be sending. She thinks casual encounters outside the marriage are ok. You'd be crazy to trust someone who has openly expressed that belief.

Trust can be rebuilt and earned over time, but she is far from that point. In my unprofessional opinion she needs a lot of therapy to get to the heart of her destructive and immature thought processes.

I'll repeat something I said earlier: you should take all steps possible to avoid becoming a betrayed spouse. Your betrayal, if it happens, may not have the shock factor that mine had, but trust me man this is no way to live. It's hell on earth.

"Honney. Based on our conversation and your view on infidelity, I can not let you go and be OK. If you need a vacation I will take you anywhere in the world for as long as you'd like. You going away with a bunch of horney girls who only want to fuck does not sit well with me. You are scaring me with your talk of fucking other people. I need you to get yourself into counseling and find out why you would be willing to do this to me. Truth is I would not be able to handle sharing you with another man. I will pay for the trip if a replacement can not be found. I've never shown you this side of me but I'm so fuckin scared. Please stay home with me. I have a list of councelors and would like if you made an appointment and thought this through. "

Say something. Don't become one of us. It's worse than death.

I wish I had that chance.

I hear what you are saying, and yes, I'm going to suggest counselling. But, believe me, trying to stop her going on this trip is not going to happen.

Also, I think she's going to be doing her own thing more. She's made contact with a couple we know who've set up a retreat in Ibiza, not far from the villa. So she's going to be visiting them a few times for swimming, yoga and watching the rest of the World Cup, so less opportunity to meet guys.

But as I said before, I now feel there is more of a risk from a repeat of the handyman scenario than this holiday.

I now feel there is more of a risk from a repeat of the handyman scenario

That is something you will have to address when she gets back. And hopefully there wont be anymore issues when she gets back.

She flew out today and has got to the villa. We'll keep in touch and hopefully all will be OK. Just before they flew out, one of the other girls remarked that they would keep an eye on her. Joke, maybe, can't be sure