SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Why are you scared to be honest with your wife?

I think what we find distressing is that you have something we never had; a chance to prevent this adultery, and you're not appreciating this gift.

Women are attracted to men who are confident, bold and decisive; men who can protect and provide; men who can confront adversity and conquer. Your description of yourself as meek and non-confrontational needs to go and now you have an opportunity to do just that, by telling your wife why her cheating would be such a bad idea!

As other SI members have commented, its regrettably quite common for wives to jet off to somewhere like Vegas for some gambling and fun; which includes raunchy sex with young guys waiting near the tables and slot machines. They justify this fun by saying they have been good dutiful wives, kept their hubbies sexually happy, good mothers, sacrificed for the family and now they deserve something special for all their dedication. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Since your marriage has apparently not reached that state of disillusionment and cynicism, make the effort to keep it 'clean'

I’m going to take a slightly different pov on this issue.

Some time ago you went on a comparable trip with your friends for the stag-party. At that time did you ever worry that your wife might have concerns about your fidelity?

Did you ever have doubts about your ability to be faithful?

Did you take any steps to assure your wife that you didn’t do anything unbecoming?

Since you felt it was OK for you to do this then why do you assume your wife will cheat?

Yes – I get the comments. I get the conversation, but I venture that the vast majority of infidelities you find here on SI were done by spouses that would never have acknowledged that an ONS was “OK” like your wife seems to be saying. But there can be immense difference in arguments used in conversation and then reality. Your W comments do not make it an inevitability that she will have sex simply because you aren’t there.

Personally I wouldn’t want to be in a marriage where trust is an eternal ongoing issue.

Yes – I know. This is an infidelity site and trust is the first thing that goes on d-day. But you haven’t had a d-day. And we BS… we have to work towards trust if we decide to reconcile. But then… trust is easily misunderstood. I trust my wife but I don’t do so blindly. I trust her because our borders and requirements are quite clear and we are very open with each other. I have access to her phone, e-mails, accounts, social pages and so on as does she with mine. It’s not blind trust but trust and verify.

It sounds as if your wife is open for communications and I would utilize that. Have a frank and open conversation where you state your concerns. Make it clear that in your world then infidelity is never allowed and that you have concerns because of the views she expressed previously. It sounds like you have an open and good relationship with her so this sort of talk shouldn’t be too hard. It will clearly establish the boundaries you expect.

How to enforce them? Well… that’s totally another story. But if she decides to cheat knowing already your views on the subject then you will find out one way or another.

Sorry, significant others do not get into situations such as this nor even consider going to a resort with three uninhibited girls. Three girls talking conquests of sex at a resort and your wife is glad to go? This my friend is not normal behavior. If she were going with other married women from the book club would I not worry. The sorority attitude here is astonishing.

I bet the gf whose bf said its not ok to go respects him more than your wife will respect you for allowing her to go.

I would want my husband to say no way and if you want a getaway lets go away together. I would not have respect for a man that thinks it's ok for me to do whatever, including cheating on him. I would think he has no self esteem.

Also we see on this site time and time again after someone has already been betrayed the betrayer continues treating them like crap and ramps it up as long as the BS begs, pleads, and tries to win them over. It's only when they take a stand that the WS has respect for them.

If your wife has no fear of losing you she will treat you like dirt.

There is another poster in General by the nameof Gregg and he lives in the Washington DC area. His wife told him she was interested in her running partner and he seemed ok with this and potentially ok with the potentila sex. Once it occurred , he knew she was seeing him and even allowed her to spend a weekend with him when his wife was out of town. The thing is, it almost did him in. He was leaving VAR's and set up to tape an encounter they had at his home while he was gone. He would watch it and listen to it daily. He is still here and posted about three - four months ago. He is doing better. The thing is. once she cheated , he was not sure if he was okay that it was just sex. I think he wishes that he had put his foot down. This is almost like falling out of a three story building. You think it will not be that bad becasue it does not look to be that far. Once you land and have a broken leg. You realize - D*** that hurt.

I almost believe you gave your wife a free pass to do as she pleases. If you had known this activity was frowned on by the BF of the original woman that was going and she declined as a result why would you not see it the same way with your wife? Why would your wife not see it and say, "Thanks but no thanks. Not for me. I would much rather spend time with my H." To me, I would think your wife is seeing this as something that does not particularly bother you and if such an occurrence would happen you would get over it. After all, you sent her on the trip without issue...originally anyway. As much as we all like to believe nothing will happen and more than likely not to many have heard the usual, "I was drunk. It just happened. I got lost in the moment."

Personally I would handle as such. Tell her after much thought and the fact that the original lady going bowed out after her BF raised a red flag you to have also raised some concerns. As hummingbird stated...this original lady that planned to go has shown much respect to her BF concerns and decided not to go. In my book...she is gets my vote for being understanding and caring for her BF feelings and thoughts.

Spoke to W again last night, as many of you have advised, using the other girl pulling out as a start point. I explained my boundaries and said that NO sex was OK with me outside marriage, and said I was still concerned about her reasons and attitudes to sex and ONS generally, so I asked her outright if there was any scenario where she would be prepared to stray, and indeed asked her to confess anything that had already happened. I used her friend’s example of her staying away in a hotel on business, meeting a guy she fancied and him asking her to bed. Would she go, like her friend did? She said she couldn’t guarantee she wouldn’t, providing the circumstances were right. Meaning the guy would have to be of similar mind, just looking for no-strings-attached fun. Also he would need to be extremely hot, not just an average guy with smooth charm. I asked “Why, is there a problem with our sex life?” She said no, rather than this was a “sex with stranger” fantasy that lots of women have, but that said she could see herself living out. She also said it’s the excitement of the chase, sex with a new man and the thrill of the forbidden. Also the more unexpected the opportunity, the more the excitement. Which I guess explains why she finds her friends ONS fun, yet remains indifferent to scenarios where guys are expected to come on to her, such as clubs, holidays (and probably Vegas as well). She insists she has never acted on these thoughts and may never do so. I asked her how long had she had these thoughts and she said a couple of years, during which her libido has increased (which is true). She also said she would confess and that because of my non jealous nature that I’d shown to date, I would understand. However, she said she’s never strayed before, but came near last year when she fancied a guy doing some building work for us. She confessed that had he made a pass, she would have found a way to spend a few hours with him. I recall her flirting with him, but he didn’t respond at all, so nothing happened.

To answer Bigger’s point, she never once questioned my intentions on my lad’s trips and as I never had any intentions, I didn’t consider how she might feel, which in hindsight is probably wrong. However, she asked about how did I feel about my own position, and could I stray in a similar situation with a hot babe. Before she answered, she told me she wouldn’t mind I if I did. I said I didn’t feel the same and wasn’t comfortable with her thoughts and actions, especially the close call with the builder, and stressed that if she did have a ONS it would hurt me greatly even though it wouldn’t lead to a D if she didn’t contact him again. She seemed to accept that and said that these thoughts didn’t occupy her mind that often and that our M is more important, therefore she won’t stray

I believe her in terms of the holiday, but still have this nagging doubt about the future. Being so attractive, she’s going to get approached and maybe one day she won’t resist. But I feel that trust is the key thing, so that’s where we go from here, and I know some of you might think I’m still being soft.

I think you are decent and honorable...and soft.

You are giving your wife a free pass to cheat by stating that you would be hurt, but would forgive and not end the marriage.

I feel she will now cheat claiming the guy was too hot to resist and rely on her sexuality to bring you around and eliminate the hurt you would be feeling.

Tell her if she cheats:

1] You will see it as OK to cheat yourself and where does this all end? How many more episodes of betrayal? {It may not mean you will do this, but its part of the ammunition you need].

2] Its going to suck the romance out of your marriage. That particular thrill of being exclusive lovers will be gone forever.

3] She will need to stop sexual relations with you for a few months while she gets tested for STD's and possible pregnancy.

4] No longer a faithful wife. Maybe a term thats falling into disuse.

5] it will change your relationship forever. You won't look at the marriage the same way.

5] You will think of her lover everytime you have sex. He will be the ghost in your bed; someone you will compare yourself with - after all you know the experience with the OM was better than married sex with you. Was he bigger, better lover?

6] When the kids are grown and off the college you may not hang around. Might be off to search for new life experiences, or hotter sex.

7] The trust will be gone on both sides; it will erode the marriage. If she goes away on business you will be wondering has she met that special guy again?

8] She could develop feelings for the guy; EA as well as a PA.

A friend of mine had a wife who cheated on him earlier in the marriage. He was devastated but they reconciled. Thirty years later, when he was a fit guy in his late 50's and she was a cellulite momma with saggy features, he started to cheat with escorts. Young, firm 18 year old girls who put on a good show for him. His wife's infidelity came back to bite her in her pimply ass.

Try printing out what I have written and show your wife. Then you won't have to say a thing about how cheating is so destructive to a marriage.

[This message edited by OK now at 8:13 PM, June 16th (Monday)]

and stressed that if she did have a ONS it would hurt me greatly even though it wouldn’t lead to a D if she didn’t contact him again.

What bothers me about this is that now you have said your peace, she might think twice about confessing to you, whether or not your not a jealous guy.

Fantasies are one thing, actually pursuing them is another. And she already did with the handyman. Except it did not pan out this time.

Tell her if she cheats:

1] You will see it as OK to cheat yourself and where does this all end?

Why would he do this? She has already said she would not have a problem with him cheating.

A better idea might be for you to go back to your wife and tell her that there is no guarantee on your end that if she did cheat that you would stay with her. After all, you have no idea how you are going to feel when or if it actually happens. Your wife has just informed you that she has no issues given the right set of circumstances of sleeping with another man. Maybe you should be reevaluating your M at this point. You are not going to change her. Do you want to live like this?

Tell her if she cheats:

1] You will see it as OK to cheat yourself and where does this all end?

I think his wife was referring to him cheating just once maybe, with a particular hot , irresistible honey.

I'm betting that the cheating will escalate until they have an open marriage and unhappiness on both sides. Whats to stop the escalation? Cheating is exciting exhilarating, and hard to stop.

I agree with TG (which isn't unusual).

Based on these conversations with your wife, it's time for a re-evaluation of your life.

I, personally, feel that married is married and no interlopers are to be allowed. I couldn't remain in a marriage with a person who saw being with other people as an *option*. When Monster (my stbx) made it very clear to me that cheating was *optional* (and he chose to exercise that option time and time again), I initiated D proceedings.

But I know that there are many other people who have different ideas of what marriage *looks* like to them.

Your wife has flat-out told you that her cheating is a possibility and *could* happen. Are you okay with that? Is that the type of marriage you want? Would you be okay with her hooking up with some guy who meets her requirements so long as she comes home to you every night? Because <-- that seems to be what your future holds.

You BOTH have to be on the same wavelength in regards to the level of commitment and fidelity in your marriage. If you BOTH agree that it's okay to have no-strings-attached sex with other people, then fine, so long as it is mutual and there are ground rules. But if your value systems in regards to this issue are different, then there is a huge problem. And it seems as if you all have that huge problem here because the two of you are on different wavelengths when it comes to commitment/fidelity .

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 8:53 PM, June 16th (Monday)]

Ummm, she has said she doesn't care. He has said he doesn't want to. I do not believe he has any intention on cheating. Her on the other hand will. Until she believes she can't or they D.

I agree. His wife has virtually stated that when the right guy comes along she will have sex with him. Its going to happen. It nearly did a few months ago.

However, its a bit preemptive to divorce based on NM's wife remark. At least he should try and get her to change her mind; convince her of the stupidity of her inclination to cheat. The divorce should come after, given the ruthless, cold-blooded nature of her intentions. Even if she doesn't cheat, its definitely sad to be married to someone who wants to make love to other men. Does wonders for your self-esteem.

I might add another important thing. We all know that one of the most likely consequences of an affair with someone you are very physically attracted to is emotional involvement. It really is very common.

Now your wife is perfectly OK with you having affairs in response to her cheating. Then she must be OK with the strong risk that you will become emotionally close to your affair partner and possibly end your marriage. From that I reason she puts very little value on you as a husband; you're someone who can be replaced without too much heartbreak.

You can see her inclinations say a lot about how she values your relationship. She seems to be content with the possibility of losing you and is willing to take huge risks for the sake of non-marital sexual pleasure. Honestly norwichman your wife has opened a can of worms with her statements. Just how much do you really mean to her if she is willing to play Russian roulette with your marriage?

Maybe my last post was badly worded, but I did make the point to W very strongly about how I would feel. Mainly along the lines of the first point (5) from Ok now. She did accept that and I have to at least trust her for the moment that she will not cheat. However I sense from your replies that I’ve given her free reign to cheat and that’s just not the case. Despite her attitudes towards sex, she’s basically a very straight person who keeps her word. Unlike some of her married friends who have similar thoughts but who wouldn’t dream of discussing them with their husbands. Having an EA is not much of risk IMO as she is able to separate sex from emotion far easier than I can.

I can’t comment on how I would feel if she did have a ONS as it’s not happened to me like it has to many of you and maybe I’m guilty of underestimating what my reaction would be. I’d be gutted for sure, but I’m not a knee jerk reaction guy and can’t see it leading to D. Anything more though, and then yes, maybe. The way I see it is that she spends a few hours with a new guy, tells me, I throw her out, or I leave, whatever. It leads to D and I’m pleased I’ve taken the macho-male response that society expects. Fast fwd a year or two and we’ve both found new partners. I see the kids at weekends and another man is also being “dad” to my kids. I don’t think so somehow. Anyhow, her holiday’s coming up in 2 weeks and she’s looking fwd to chilling. She was looking forward to a good atmosphere in the resort, but feels the locals might be a bit down in the dumps after the events of yesterday

Ok I think the thing we're all seeing that youre not is that

She said she couldn’t guarantee she wouldn’t, providing the circumstances were right. Meaning the guy would have to be of similar mind, just looking for no-strings-attached fun. Also he would need to be extremely hot, not just an average guy with smooth charm.

and thats the kicker. Ask many more people and they'll probably tell you that yes, they have fantasies but theres NO WAY theyd act on them. Thats the difference. In her mind, its already a possibility. She has loose boundaries. If that worker had flirted back who knows where that would have gone. Do you want to live like that?

Make a stand. Dont tell her 'its ok if its a one night stand I wont divorce you'.

Yes, I get all that, but these comments were made before I said I didn't find them acceptable. Once I did, her tone changed and she said she understood my views and would not stray. I've not discussed D with her in the event of a ONS, but if I threatened D in the event, she would have seen right through me.