SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The wedding ring, to her, was always quite symbolic, as it showed the world my commitment to our marriage. As for me, I don't really like jewelry, it bugs me. Since retirement, I don't even wear a watch. But, realizing that her feelings on this are strong, I've gone back to wearing it. She has commented many times since, that it means a lot to her that I've done this. So, it was a good move. Should have done it all along.

The letter from Joseph, my word, is right on! I love the analogy of the puzzle. And, am glad it was suggested, as I will incorporate it in my next, and likely last, conversation to her on this subject.

If she cannot give me the whole truth, or at least convince me that I have the whole truth, then she cannot have my whole heart. There will always be an empty space in it caused by this. I don't mean to sound melodramatic, but it is the truth.

As for an earlier question about whether she has ever been curious about my past relationships; the answer is surprising no. I wonder why. Would asking me open her up to discussing hers... more? Opinions.

The problem with being retired?

You never get a day off!

I had to remove my wedding ring due to huge pre dialysis water weight gain. Still looking for it .......

As for an earlier question about whether she has ever been curious about my past relationships; the answer is surprising no. I wonder why.

Because her being curious about your past and asking about it would open up the conversation about her past.

I've never thought about too much, but now that I am, seems logical that one would definitely lead to the other. I just thought, before, that she didn't want to know because it happened before we were together and didn't matter as such.

I'm just curious....

Those 2 competitive girls you slept with back in grad school - do you remember their names?

I graduated college 27 years ago. As much as I don't like to think about it, I had many ONS over the course of 4 years and I can only remember the names of 2 of them. And that is only because they tried to connect with me on Facebook. I had to PM my roomate to ask who they were and she reminded me...

eta: There was always lots of alcohol involved with my ONS. Is it possible your wife was intoxicated as well? They did leave a club where I assume alcohol was served and back then the drinking age would have been 18 (at least it was when I was in college)

[This message edited by Chicky at 9:25 PM, June 28th (Saturday)]

You're right about that; drinking age back then was 18 or older (she was 20) and they were all drinking, but driving, too, so only " a little buzzed." It was the 80s though.

Yes, I do remember the names of the two girls and how they looked as well. Both had long black hair, No. 1 had green eyes and No. 2 had brown eyes. I say this, not to disprove your point, as I agree in principle that names could be forgotten- it would not be impossible. But, in my case, when you put it all together, it doesn't add up. I am "trusting my gut" on this.

I'm impressed that you remember.

I only asked because you seem adamant that she should remember, which is your right.

Now, here is an odd twist or rather a bomb that I have prayed for years wouldn't detonate...

One of my ONS was a bit older than I and our encounter happened at the beginning of my Freshman year. My H left college (he attended another college) to go into the military. He was just my best friend at that time. After a year he came home and we got engaged when I was a Junior but I stayed behind to finish college and the ONS graduated. You tell me, what are the odds that they would both end up stationed in Europe, in the SAME unit, and be roomates in the SAME barracks?

Yes, it happened!!! I was on pins and needles for 18 months scared to death that one night of drunken indescretion would come back and bite me in the ass. For reasons know only to him, he never said a word (THANK GOD). My H and I were not dating in any sense of the word at the time but still...KWIM?

I shudder to think about it but I try to do so very infrequently.

eta: And my H is a lot like you in that if he even had the slightest hint of any kind of (fill in the blank) with another man, he would NOT let it go until he had every gory detail.

[This message edited by Chicky at 11:57 PM, June 28th (Saturday)]

Wow! Again, wow! I not sure anyone can top that story. But, it makes you wonder. As pointed out by many others, your mind can create all types of scenarios until you're exhausted.

Maybe you can give me your opinion on this, from a woman's POV: She is now very reluctant to engage in any conversation about either the PA (before marriage) or the EA (married) as she cites we've been through that conversation many times (4?)already and I should just forgive and let it go. This could be a genuine concern, you know to move on. However, I feel that I should be the one that decides when to let it go as I suffered the injury. It seems that reluctance may be an avoidance strategy so as to not trip up on conflicting information or give new information (unwittingly)attesting to the fact she did not give full disclosure during the times before. Its a don't play with fire-don't get burned attitude. True is, she doesn't and can't know how this feels to me, this nagging emptiness, the constant re-visiting that time in my mind to scour for clues, etc., because she has never been cheated on.

oldsoul

as she cites we've been through that conversation many times (4?)already and I should just forgive and let it go.

Try this:

"Honey, I have been faithful to you since the day we met. I have never cheated on you nor lied to you.

You cannot say the same.

I love you. But you are asking me to forgive you for something that happened over 30 years ago that to me feels like it happened just yesterday.

So the answer is no. I just cannot forget it. I want the truth. The whole truth.

I deserve the truth.

I have forgiven you in the past. I will forgive you again.

But I deserve to know what I am forgiving you for......"

The next word should be hers.

And I get that your wife made a conscious decision and chose you. But she had to sample the merchandise in order to make that decision.

Sadly or maybe happily you did not!

Do not settle for her TT. It is insulting.

HM

Old Soul. I have read your story in its duration catching up when I can and while I fully understand how you feel I worry that you might be heading down a very horrible road that you are not prepared to be on. I understand your want, your Need to know the truth no matter how much it is going to hurt, but what if you open a kettle of fish that will end your marriage? Have you thought about that outcome. Is this really worth ending your marriage for? You must be prepared for the worst. I hope that at some point, IF there is more to the story that your wife tells you. I am sure she wishes she had never, ever brought it up. I am just very concerned that you might be damaging your marriage in ways that will not be repairable. Is there a chance that it was how she says it was? That is was just a drunken ONS and she was embarrassed, ashamed and distraught after it happened. Possibly it was the catalyst that made her decide that it was YOU she loved. It was YOU she wanted. Sometimes, the past is best left in the past. I hope you are prepared for this because your constant pressure in finding out if you "know it all" might be the beginning of the end for you guys, especially if old feelings are brought back to light and your wife realizes that you will never feel the same about her ever again.

Please take care deciding about this because it might lead to things you haven't even considered. I hope I am wrong, but sometimes some things are best left in the past. I do sympathize with you and believe that you should have been told it all right at the beginning, but you weren't and your marriage was good. You were happy before all of this. I just hope you can be happy again after all this too.

Good luck.

There is no letting this go.

It has already been introduced into your life, and no matter what path you take, there will always be an outcome to what has happened. What that outcome will be, has yet to be determined.

Right now, the fact that she may have told you the truth is secondary. She is (1) disregarding your feelings, and (2) becoming irritated and defensive about it. That is not how you treat your partner in life, is it? All that this attitude has done, is to spin your mind in a thousand directions.

If I was to give you advice, it would be to accept her ACTIONS as fact. You have tried very lovingly and compassionately to get your point across(did you give her Joseph's Letter?). You have read information, and tried to gain much understanding about the way that not only you feel, but the way that she may be thinking. In my opinion, this is not about attrition...and wearing her down to make a confession.

Take what she has showed you, and act accordingly from this. If you want to remain married, then you can attempt to do so, but most likely with a guarded and partially empty heart. Trust will diminish to a very low point, then have to be attempted to build back up over time. More than likely, a small level of resentment will plant its seed, and grow to a certain level over time. You will not see her in quite the same light that you used to before, and perhaps even a little bit less as each day passes by.

What I am trying to say, it that the genie can't be put back into the bottle. It will never be "let go of" in the fact that it is in the open now. It will continue to eat at you. Again, this is my opinion, and I could be off base, but I don't think so.

The question that I am screaming out loud is why isn't she trying to ease your pain? If she is being 100% honest, why does it not bother her that she sees her husband in pain, when he has the total truth, and is not helping him? Why is she only protecting herself?

Can you go on like this the rest of your life, OldSoul? Can you accept what she has told you as fact, and put it behind you?

Truth given or not, you are going to have a lot of work to do, to get yourself back into a good mental place. I sure hope that your wife steps up to the plate to help you through this.

through that conversation many times (4?)already and I should just forgive and let it go.

Is something bothering your gut feelings?

Many times a gut feeling can be triggered by something you have no clue. She brought up the past a year ago and now again you're wondering.

Do you think your wife has had another affair more recently?

Why do you think she ever brought up 30 years ago in the first place.

Guilt is a funny thing which is why I wonder why she brought it up again.

Sooner or later this has to be taken care of. You cannot continue to wonder. You have to be careful not to push your wife over the edge either...since this is not like dealing with a current affair.

And it isnt like you just found out either.

Tell her it is really bothering you that she suddenly brought this up a year ago. And the key here is that it is bothering you.

A question for you about your current feelings... Do you feel something is not right now, today with your wife. Or is this ALL about the past.

Instead of all the wondering and asking her, since she could not actually remember the guys names, she could take a polygraph and end of story.

She is now very reluctant to engage in any conversation about either the PA (before marriage) or the EA (married) as she cites we've been through that conversation many times (4?)already and I should just forgive and let it go.

I think in her mind it's old history and/or water under the bridge and you should just let it go. Unfortunately, I think the more you ask, the more she's going to dig her heels in and stick with the same story.

However, I feel that I should be the one that decides when to let it go as I suffered the injury.

I agree.

It seems that reluctance may be an avoidance strategy so as to not trip up on conflicting information or give new information (unwittingly)attesting to the fact she did not give full disclosure during the times before. Its a don't play with fire-don't get burned attitude.

Nail on the head! Especially if the story is full of half truths or outright lies. Do you know how hard it is to consciously remember a lie? Add to that, every lieyou tell needs yet another to support it.

I don't know that I would go the polygraph route because if she said no to taking it, what then?

I do wish you luck in your quest to get the facts and as has been said before, I truly hope you don't find out devastating information that you cannot get past. Good luck.

Hi OS:

I am so astounded at the amount of SI members telling you to "let it go". It so goes against SI philosophy in general. I do NOT feel that the fact that you had not yet married somehow gives her a free pass.

Yes, you risk the truth ending your M. But IMO not knowing is going to eat you up. When she says "let it go or let me go"...wow, just wow. She is essentially already threatening divorce. She is determined not to tell you more. If she were me, and I really didn't remember, I would be screaming "I REALLY DON'T REMEMBER!" but I would not be threatening divorce.

My only advice would be counseling, I just wanted to add my voice to the very wise Holly-Isis and others who think you deserve to know the truth.

I thought I would update.

In the late winter of 1984, she and I went on our first weekend outing to a ski resort in North Carolina. From that weekend, there are several pictures (if you've followed by thread, the irony of using pictures is delicious) and one is my favorite of her wearing her skiing outfit, holding skis and looking directly at me with the most loving gaze.

I've been thinking that I will never find out what I want to know by using coercive and tricky means, so I have devised a plan to enter her mind through her heart as this is the only way most people would divulge secrets, etc.

I have made the picture mentioned above the desktop picture on my Iphone. And waited for the right moment, for her to see it.

Earlier, I had the whole story typed out, went to preview/edit and lost it. So, for that reason, I will submit several small posts, so that can't happen again.

To be continued...

When she got home from work yesterday, I proceeded to be romantic. Okay, there was a ravishing. This was not in connection with the "plan", just happened, but conveniently led up to the plan being implemented.

I got the phone to check emails, and noticed that she had noticed the picture. Here's how the conversation went, to the best of my memory...

Me: Do you remember this?

Her: Yes, that was a long time ago.

Me: Yes, 1984, our first weekend date. It was a sleepover....

Her: (laughing) Yes.

Me: I remember driving through all of those small towns where the stoplights seemed to stay red forever, thought we'd never get there. It was dark when we finally did.

Her: Yes, what I remember is cuddling by the fireplace all night.

Me; So that's what you're calling it now (laughing)- you have a good memory (anyone catch the irony in that statement?).

To be continued...

Me: (Looking at the phone pic again) Look at the love in this pretty face. Beauty like this lasts a lifetime. This was my girlfriend, who loved my more than anything. She arranged the trip, and paid for it all. Just to be with a hound dog like me (Laughing).

Her: Yes.

Me: She loved me more than anything and I killed her.

Her: What?

Me: I killed her.

Her: What? How?

To be continued...

Me: In less than three months from when this picture was taken, she and a friend went to the beach and she found herself in the arms of another man. The girl in this picture died that night.

Her: Not all of her died...

Me: All she wanted was for me to love her back like she loved me, but I was too consumed by other B-lls--t to see it. So, she did this thing with another man, and she died.

Her: But not all of her. She wouldn't be here...

Me: She wanted so much, just to live. But I killed her.

You know what the crappiest part of all this is?

Her: What?

To be continued...

Just one voice that agrees with devastated. Are you really going to endanger a 30 year marriage over this? If you continue to press you may find yourself in a place you never wanted to get to in 6 months. The phrase cheaters always cheat doesn't seem to apply to a woman who has been faithful for 30 years.

Me: The guy who did this got away with it. He used her and discarded her like she was nothing. He took the most precious thing I had and used it like it was nothing. He used me, he used her; He used us. It didn't even matter about us.

Her: but she came back... she didn't die...

Me: Oh yes, that part of her, the innocent, in love more than anything face you see in that picture....

Her: She thought she was only being used by you, what was the difference? She didn't fully die...

Me: I know I may have not been fully engaged, but the point is that he used her, got away with it and to this day, I don't even know who he is.

He got away with taking the most precious thing I had and thirty years later, I don't even know who he is. Or maybe was...

Her: (softly) can we change subjects, please?

Me: I don't even know who he was; how is that fair? (Looking at the phone) She was my girlfriend...

So, we changed topics and she asked me to hold her while she went to sleep at bedtime. All day, today, she has been texting with flirty comments about yesterday's lovemaking. I feel the conversation about the beach trip needs to simmer awhile. I purposely worded it to make it me and her against him. Understanding her point of view of not feeling loved by me, etc. Although, it doesn't excuse the sexual encounter, it seeks to understand why it happened.

I want to know who this guy was.