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I do not understand why your therapist would advise you both go on this trip.

To make things worse and weird, we're about to embark on an extended trip to celebrate our 30th. She says it will give us a chance to talk things through.

Talk what things through, it sounds like she has done all of her talking already.

This is a serious situation and it somewhat sounds as if your wife is taking some kind of phony high road, by talking. Actually, she should have talked to you before meeting some other guy.

I am wondering if her going on this vacation with you is just for show. So others in your family and circle of friends see you both acting normal.

Who is this OM? Is he married?

And does anyone else know of her affair?

Are any of the counselors/therapist you both are seeing actually experienced in infidelity? You should ask at least yours this question. Any good therapist who has experience in this would have told her to cut contact with this OM first and foremost. You don't even have that! Otherwise you two will just go in circles, while you bargain away whatever is left of your dignity to have her work on your marriage. Good luck with that.

A cheater doesn't deserve a cruise. A faithful spouse does. Just my opinion, but her going is like rewarding her despicable and disrespectful behavior to you.

I can appreciate that the 'real' people in your life providing advice will have greater sway than random people on the internet. However with the greatest amount of respect, you have also decided to ask for advice from a forum of people with experience in this area.

Going on a trip with a spouse that is not remorseful is completely pointless. I guarantee you that if you go on this trip, you will be back here weeks/months from now venting about her behavior. You will become even more depressed/angry/etc. with the lack of progress.

This is why it is important to take a stand now! If you are unsure of how to stand up to her then there are numerous people here who could help you work on a speech.

Do not go on this trip. Start respecting yourself.

Brother,

take opportunities to talk about where we want to go from here

She says she's no longer sure she loves me and that she thinks she loves her new man.

She's already told you where her thinking lies.

Ironically, your best chance to save this marriage is to not go with her. Show her the life she is choosing. Implement http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11.

I'm sorry. No matter the direction you choose, we will be here for you.

Strength

I suppose I'm stubborn and perhaps naive, but I'm leaving with her. I'll be off the grid for a couple of weeks, but I'll report back. And no doubt I will have raw emotions just as everyone has predicted, but I feel comfortable airing those here. To make things even more ironic, part of our destination is a family wedding.

I already know she wants out of the marriage. She has said that directly and that she won't cut contact. We're doomed.

But I find i still want answers before I can ever love again.

I support your decision to go. Frankly, it sounds like to have nothing to lose. To me, you sound pretty strong. She doesn't deserve the trip, but maybe in some way you do. Maybe it will provide you with some of the answers you need.

I can't tell you how many times I've read posts from people and after reading the story it is very clear that they should immediately get D. Most of the stories are that way to me, in fact! But, I realize that there are often subtleties that haven't been explained or facts that haven't been disclosed. So, I generally don't respond with "Don't stay married to this person, period."

So, I think it's good that you've considered a lot of advice and have reached your own decision. I believe this decision is the best one for you. If it turns out to be a bad decision for you, you can always come home early, with or without her.

Best.

You should have taken a complete stranger on the trip than your wife.

At least you would gave had more fun.

But no. Take the woman who has cheated on you and lied to you for over two years.

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

I will give you a clue.

Spend one week trying to get the answers you seek. Spend the rest of the trip planning on how you will replace her and fix yourself.

Will your grown kids be at the wedding?

Gently…

Both your therapists… and your psychiatrist… and yet you feel a need to reach out to a forum like us?

Don’t get me wrong! I think SI rules! I think this forum is by far one of the most powerful and positive tools you can find when dealing with infidelity. But to me it sounds like you are paying a bunch of people money for guidance you don’t really agree to… (btw – we are free and worth every cent!). If anything then my comment is a shot at the guys accepting the checks and your confidence in them.

OK – Back on track.

What is the goal for this trip? You said it’s supposed to be a celebration of 30 years. 30 years of what? Is this like a harvesting festival? A final good-bye?

You say there are boundaries. So the goal isn’t to try to reconnect? You are going off to do your activities while she goes and does her activities? That doesn’t sound like a “let’s try to save this marriage” event. Heck – not even a “let’s celebrate the last 30 years” event. More like a wake…

So what are the activities? Are there limits? Boundaries? Accountability? OK – I can get it if you are off fishing for an afternoon while she gets a massage or her nails done. But is your activity fishing while her activity is texting with OM while tanning at the pool? Is this a trip for you two or for you three?

I’m not saying don’t go on the trip. It could be beneficial. But it has to be clear and the consequences of her ongoing affair needs to be in the open.

Separation? Heck… Separation to do what? I seldom think separation is beneficial. I think dealing with the issues is beneficial but if you are to separate then it has to have some clear and accountable agreement to build on.

I’m guessing your wife wants to separate to see if her OM is a better option than you. How can that go? You really don’t give us any info on him – is he married? Single? Do you know whom it is? When and how do the meet?

But why separate rather than divorce? Well… She too has 30 years invested in this relationship and she isn’t ready to sacrifice that. She’s afraid of the uncertainty, the end of continuity and safety that you might offer. THIS is possibly your greatest strength right now. Just like you are afraid of losing everything then she is afraid of losing the security and social status you provide. If you accept separation… well… she’s going to realize she can get along fine without you, have her love-affair with her OM and bring him out in a semi-respectable way. Who knows – maybe your two sons will be all understanding and happy for her.

But if you put your foot down and make it clear that if she chooses OM then its divorce ASAP… Well… it pushes her against a wall but at worst it only quickens an inevitable conclusion. Get it? IF you separate then there is a 99% chance this will end in divorce. If you press for divorce if she chooses not to end the affair… I give your marriage a 50/50 chance of survival.

And be very clear what divorce looks like. You two won’t be “friends”. You and her new lover won’t play golf and you won’t be over to clear the drains or fix her car. Divorce is the termination of a marriage and the process of detaching and establishing as little contact as necessary. With grown kids… that’s more or less no contact. Don’t believe me? Well – look at your divorced friends. Haven’t they gone on with their lives and moved away from their exes?

Are you going to at least demand she stop contact with this OM while on this trip?

Is this OM married?

Unfortunately, expect her to be contacting him every chance she gets while on this trip with you. If it's not by cell phone or tablet or iPad or guest computer services in your hotel or on your cruise ship, it will be by smoke signal or Pony Express. But it's going to happen and the jist of her nonsense to her 'boyfriend' is going to be all about how miserable she is being 'stuck' there with you and placating him with promises that she isn't being romantic with you. Boy, cheaters are nothing if not CLICHE.

Yup, it's yet just another show of disrespect we BS's have pretty much all had to endure.

Blech.

I know the SI community doesn't approve, but I haven't completely ignored your advice.

We don't need to approve. All of the advice we give is based on what we've experienced and what we've seen others go through. You have to decide what's best for you.

You are still understandably hurt tremendously and in a fog of your own. You are not going to "nice" your wife back.

It is not important what we think. If you can enjoy yourself doing your thing while she texts or e mails her boyfriend how she can't wait to get back and bang him then who are we to challenge that. Go for it.

The real sad part is that you are paying an idiot of a therapist to give you that advice.

Good luck. You unfortunately will need it

[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:33 AM, July 1st (Tuesday)]

The trip was mixed. We had moments of intense intimacy and honesty, and she said I seemed so different that she was now ambivalent about separating. She repeatedly told me she loved me. At the same time there were awkward moments when she would dodge my questions or issues that I would raise, which made me angry. I was also mad that she seemed to think saving the marriage meant my behavior had to change, not hers. Worst of all, she still says she won't cut contact until she has a chance to talk to OM to see if they have a future. I'm clearly second choice right now--she's still in the fog. She will divulge next to nothing about the OM. All I know is that he isn't married--if I can trust that information.

She got so badly drunk and hungover at the family wedding that she swore off alcohol forever. If only she would have the same resolve with her affair.

I see a divorce attorney alone and without her knowledge next week to see what my options are. I still hope for R, but I'm pulling together financial records in preparation for the worst.

I know you're hoping for R, butt your WW will not stop seeing her AP. She told you...her HUSBAND...i need to see what kinds of future OM and I can have. How much more disrespectful can she get than that?

She wants you to promise to do all of the changing. To take all of the blame. That isn't R. That is your WW manipulating your desire to stay in the M to have things on her terms. That isn't a partnership.

Don't just see what your options are. Start the process.

That, my friend, is a gold standard mind fuck she just laid on you. I know it's so hard to see when you're in the middle of this storm, but her "fog" is chipping away at your soul. Her manipulative bullshit and her habit of swinging a carrot in front of your face to make you hang on to that last bit of hope is the height of cruelty.

She has to see what kind of future she has with OM?? Let her go see, but also let her know you're not interested in hanging around for the final chapter of this story. She wants to go, let her go. If she wants to stay, she's all in right now or else it's a done deal.

Get your ducks in a row, find out your rights, and keep cards to yourself.

I am glad you are finally getting to an attorney. Your wife is absolutely humiliating you, and seeing the spam means she will bang him again after going on trip with you.

It is time to tell her open marriage season is over, and start telling her what YOU might consider acceptable.

You will get no change in her behavior as long as you are willing to be Plan B and gladly accepting it. She has already told you that that is the case . And by the way, if he does not commit to her she will then put you through more despair knowing a phone call from him and she will cheat on you again.

I don't see how you can want her anymore with what she has already done to you. You will not get out of this unless you kick her ass out and let her decide if she wants you while you tell her what is acceptable and what is not

She is obviously being cruel and selfish and in some kind of fog.

Now would be the time to blow up the affair. Since you are her second choice and her choice ONLY if there is no future with this OM, could you ever live with that.

You need to find out everything you can about this OM. And blow up her fantasy perfect world.

If you have to, hire a PI.

She is cake-eating big-time. She can't decide who she wants??

She is just using you.

You need to get busy investigating, without her knowledge, and gather as much evidence about her OM as you can.

Oh, she was just using you on the trip too.

GPS her car, get a VAR.

[This message edited by shiloe at 6:00 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)]

If the guy is single, how do you blow up the affair other than divorce her. He has no spouse to tell.

She is so out of lev with you you can blow up the affair and you will be wondering the rest of your life when the next one would start.

It is one thing to keep affair secret. It is another to look you straight in the eye and tell you she will continue to fuck him until she is sure he does not want a future with her.

That is about as disgusting that it can get

Jiang,

Omg can I relate. 2 weeks prior to my 30th found out a shitload. Totally destroyed my self esteem and felt I'd been cheated out of my anniversary. While I agree with the advice above, we did take a trip for our anniversary and it was literally the best time of my life. Reity continues to setup back in now as the day to day necessitates Dealing with the reality of what he's done. It's hard to fix a situation when you wouldn't have put yourself in it in the first place. I hate having to deal with this. I hate that he put my healrh at risk and I had to have std tests. I hate that I feel broken and invaluable. I don't know if this will ever end. I'm do sorry you are here...