SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

oh boy, so you are essentially going on the word of someone whom broke your trust

Think about that, forget trust for now but verify. She as to earn trust at this point.

Ways in which to verify, that you set the rules

No passwords on anything,

Total transparency of all electronic devices.

A written letter or phone call that you witness or review telling the OM that the relationship is over and to never contact her again.

To reveal who the OM is

this is just a few items.

As for gaslighting... it means she will use mental tricks on you to make you doubt yourself, blame yourself, back off to let her carry on her affair, downplay what she has done and up-play anything she can think of that she does not like about you and use it against you.

It is essentially more lies and deceit but used very manipulatively and methodically to essentially let her go on with what she wants to do and by deflecting your requests and wants

[This message edited by atreides at 11:10 AM, July 24th (Thursday)]

Please expose the affair, that is step one.

Many times over the years I have seen over and over on SI, that when the WS says they cut all contact with the AP, it really means that all they did was take the A further underground.

[This message edited by sparkysable at 11:34 AM, July 24th (Thursday)]

jiang, knowledge is power. Knowledge will help get you control back. You need to get a VAR and hide it in her vehicle. You need to hire a PI to find out who the OM she is seeing. She is defending the cake-eating and just paying lip service about NC and therapy to get you to back off. Think about it, why is she keeping the OM's identity a secret?

So she cut contact only after her Psychiatrist told her to? Having you say it wasn't enough? I think that pretty clearly states her level of respect for anything you have to say.

Do you really believe her? She's already said that she won't cut contact until she talks with him to see if there's a future. I don't know how much more blatant it can be shown that she doesn't give a shit about your marriage but this is a pretty clear cut case.

Even if you R, you'll always remember that she has no qualms about making you her plan B. I don't know how you could ever trust her after knowing that.

I say this because I was in your exact situation, guess what I did, I kicked her ass out and now where is she? Alone. Yep, plan A didn't work out like her incompetent brain had fantasized.

This was all after I tried to R with her. All I ended up was being a doormat. Don't be me.

We had our first MC session. While she said she wanted R, as do I, and she apologized deeply, she said she would never reveal OM. Therapist seemed to back her on this and said that trust is like faith. I said I need full transparency, but left the session without it.

Question for the SI community: is not revealing OM a deal breaker? I don't want to confront this person, but I want to avoid contact myself as I have the sick feeling it is someone I know.

just my first thought on this. concealing the identity of the OM is more important to her than the marriage.

what does that say to you?

Personally, it would be a deal breaker for me. It allows her to continue to protect him and her little fantasyland. She does not have your best interests at heart. She is still thinking of herself.

I would not be able to live in a world where I didn't know who it was. You live in constant paranoia, is it the guy at the grocery? Some guy at work? The guy at the mechanic shop? Each of these senarios creates a slightly different R, she might need to get a new job, not go to the mechanic, etc, but you don't know. You lose all power. I would not live like that.

For me it would be, for reasons almost too countless to enumerate. Mostly it starts with accountability. She is STILL telling you that she cares more for the other guy than she does about you. Trust her?! Maybe eventually some of that can be rebuilt, but to just blindly trust because SHE says so and happens to find some MC that's willing to back that? It's your life, but I am fairly confident that won't lead to better place, rather it will lead to further heartache.

Keep in mind the therapist works for you, not the other way around.

You get to say what is a deal-breaker to you, what is important to you. It sounds to me like WW is being allowed to set the terms of recovery. At some point you are going to have to decide if a) you are rebuilding a marriage with someone who is genuinely concerned with you and remorseful, or b) you will need to decide that an open marriage is ok.

Refusing to allow full transparency is rugsweeping at its very worst. At least when you rug sweep you are acknowledging that there is a problem before you hide it. Here, you're being told that there may or may not be some debris that needs to be dealt with, and it isn't your concern what has been happening in your marriage. On top of that, some hack MC is trying to shovel that shit as well. Don't eat it.

Simply put yes this is a deal breaker. If you don't respect yourself who will?

Have you gone through her phone bill to find him?

You are still right where you were before your trip. She is in total control, you are in denial, and so desperate to have her around that she knows she has to do nothing and you will still be hanging on.

Your course of action insures you will get nothing but continued hurt. Your MC is a QUACK. he should have been pressing her on how important it is answer all of your questions.

The responses you are getting are worded a little differently but are all saying the same thing

SHE IS CAKE EATING

SHE IS BLAME SHIFTING

YOU ARE PLAN B

SHE CARES MORE ABOUT OM THAN YOU

ANY R WILL BE ON HER TERMS

You can change that by stepping up and telling her what your demands are if she is still wanting to remain married. Call her bluff. Right now you remain her patsy.

If you continue to do what you are doing now, you will remain in an open marriage that you do not have a clue about.

You should not even be in MC with her right now until she shows some committment. All it will turn into is a blame you session. if OM is single and no family to blow up, why is his identity or anything about him so secretive. it is because she wants to be able to go back to him if she wants to.

Badhurt and others have given you some great advice.

One thing I would do is set up multiple VARs in the house and one in her car.

Then go out of town, or at least tell her that, and when you come back you will find out who it is.

Good luck.

Thank you for the quick responses.

New question: what is a VAR?

VAR is a voice activated recorder. You can get one in any electronics store. Others here will suggest good brands/models to buy.

I think your gut is right. I think you have a good idea who the OM is. She isn't choosing to stay married to you. She is trying to secure her options and still seeing if it works out with OM or keep cake-eating.

Therapist seemed to back her on this and said that trust is like faith.

Except WW broke that faith. Arguably she never had the right to such "secrets" but any notion that she did should have evaporated.

Jiang

You are going around in circles here . This is the same therapist who have you the brilliant advice to take your wife on a beautiful vacation to reward her for fucking another man, refusing to stop being in contact with him, and refusing to divulge who he is so she can keep her affair alive.

You first step should be to lose this therapists phone number and address.

The he takes your WW side in this and tells you to have faith in her and trust her. I'd rather have faith in a cobra .!!!!

You will NOT nice her back. There has to be some consequences to her actions. There are none right now.

What you need to do is have the attorney draw up some papers, present them to her with a list of what YOU demand for your healing, and let her stew on that for a while. You can stop the process the minute she gets her head out of her ass, which will not happen until you show some backbone.

Sorry for the 2x4 but there is no way out of your mess for you with her attitude.

jiang,

My response in MC would have been, either tell me OM's name or we get divorced. No questions asked.

Your MC is fucking idiot. No way he should have allowed her to keep her secret. Counselor needs to be fired like yesterday.

Sorry if I come across harshly. Her refusing to give you the name is complete BS.

You need a new MC.

He's taking your WW's side before he even knows what's happened.

How can you rebuild trust if there are secrets?

And why should she be protecting the OM if she really wanted to R?

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 7:30 AM, July 30th (Wednesday)]

First of all, I am SO sorry you are going through the pain of your wife's infidelity. Just devastating.

I haven't posted for awhile here but SI was a God-send during the time of my now XH's multiple DDs and false R. You story resonates with me because of the length of your marriage. I was married for 24 years before I realized my self worth. My (now) XH has marked narcissistic tendencies and I had a very difficult time terminating the relationship (co-dependency stuff).

Just needed to repeat what others have already stated (more succinctly than I).

1. Your WW thinks more of her relationship with her OM than your marriage. Think about it--if she truly wants to continue with you she should be doing EVERYTHING IT TAKES (identifying OM and then some...) to make things right with you. MC won't work unless BOTH parties are invested (I went through ineffective MC as well.)

2. There are 3 people in your marriage right now. She thinks it's OK. Classic cake eating. Close the bakery.

3. You can't "nice" her into coming back.

4. Good for you for seeing a lawyer! Wish I had done that earlier than I did. Now go ahead and file. If she is truly remorseful (and the act of filing might wake her up) you don't need to go through with the divorce.

5. Respect yourself. You will get through this.

(((hugs)))

[This message edited by moonview at 4:03 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)]

Jaing,

You have received a lot of advice here - based on the benefit of SI members' experience.

As a BS - what I would say to you is to stop and think.

It is really, really hard to be the partner of a bi-polar person.

I'm sure you won't want to hear, but it may be the manifestation of your troubles that have pushed you WS into her unacceptable choice to have an A.

In no way is this your fault - other people's relationships are just that - private, individual and each buffeted by their own unique circumstances.

if you could bear to not make any hasty decisions right now, but to be strong and to talk.

To really open up and ask your WS to do the same, you may be able to connect on a level that 30 years of togetherness deserves.

I know you are hurting so very badly right now, but it may be that (unwittingly) your condition has caused her such anguish in the past that she has become vulnerable to the emotional support that an outsider (non bi-polar) OM has been able to provide.

I know that it is not your 'fault' that she has had an A, i wouldn't try to suggest that for one minute.

But as the BS of a bi-polar man, i can empathise with the significant strain that this can put on any marriage.

Can you be honest with her?

Do you feel that if you could be totally transparent about your hopes, fears, strengths and weaknesses, that she could open up to you in reciprocation?

30 years is a long time, she may feel that although she loves you deeply, she needs support for herself.

Unfortunately, it looks like she may have found it elsewhere, but if you COULD find a way to step back and calmly, rationally talk to her about your 30 years together - what she feels, what she has suffered - there may indeed be hope to save your lives together.

Even if not - maybe you could part (if not as friends) but with a deeper understanding of what actually happened for her to take such a drastic step after all these years?