SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are afraid of losing your marriage. Gently..it's already gone.

The old marriage is gone. There can be a new and better one. But a lot has to come together in the right way.

But you can never go back, ever. Once this trust has been broken and you have been lied to, you can never go back to the way it was.

I like the idea of exchanging phones with her. You have nothing to hide and according to her, she has nothing to hide.

Maybe all married couples should have an exchange a phone for a day each month.

You do need to find out what is going on, without knowing exactly what is going on, you will be dealing with this in a reactive way and never quite feel like you are in control. And that is a terrible feeling as you now know.

Deceived

She is NOT going to go for the idea of exchanging phones peacefully because she IS CHEATING. She is NOT going to give you all her passwords because she IS CHEATING. And she IS going to berate you ,accuse, you ,and try to make you feel like a meek idiot.

When she realizes that ain't working anymore you might make some progress.

If she voluntarily exchanges phones with you and does all the other stuff, most of us here will be absolutely amazed.

let us know

Deceived, you have to assume the affair is continuing and her defensive posturing will not stop.

You have to get the affair stopped now, at all costs. You need to catch her in the act or get something that will make her just stop the defensive posturing crap and the anger game.

She admits to an affair but won't even give you the guy's name. That is about as disrespectful as it gets.

You have already caught her in an affair and she continues to treat you this way. You have to find out who the affair is with.

You already had solid proof and that didnt do any good. You need to know who this affair is with.

If this OM is married, you can blow up the affair.

Your wife is living in fantasy land now. Either way, nothing good can happen to you unless you get this affair stopped.

Is there anyone of her coworkers that you can call and "gently" ask who your wife has been friendly with at work.

That is exactly how I finally got my proof. I called a guy at my wife's work and just asked him who my wife had been friendly with and he gave me a name. And that was that.

Can you follow your wife? Does she come home late from work much?

I still don't understand about this couples therapy. Your therapist never talks about your wife having an affair.

Deceived -

Let's look at this a different way. Most of us here have a ton of hindsight experience so it is easy for us to be able to tell you what is going to happen from a BTDT (been there, done that) perspective.

But from someone 4 years out and completely healed - she has already lost YOU. Yes, you have lost something you thought you had as well, but when the shock of it all starts to melt away, you will realize that it is actually she who lost, not you. Right now, you are losing a selfish, petulant CHILD who only cares about herself and really doesn't think a thing about anyone else. When you get yourself steady again, you will see all that she lost - a stand up, WORTHY man who does right by his family and himself. A man who respects his marriage and vows, and his girls. A man who put his wife and family's needs and wants above his own, with no qualms about doing so.

I can say, 4 years out, that would be a heck of a thing to lose. So right now, while it feels like you have lost something (which I agree, you have, but maybe you've lost more than you've considered, which is a VERY good thing, all things considered!) it is really she who has lost everything.

Back to practical matters. She is not remorseful and she is actively cheating. If she isn't crying snot bubbles and doing whatever.it.takes to right this ship, there's a pretty good chance she is still actively cheating. As much as you want to nice her back, or try to believe her, one thing that will help you take control of this situation is looking at what you want that you can make happen.

1. You want her to stop and be the wife you thought you had. Unfortunately, you cannot make it happen. She is showing you who she is today - believe her. That doesn't mean someday she can't improve and change from who she is right now, but today--she is a lying liar who lies.

2. You don't want to disrupt what you thought you would always have. Too late. She has already done that. Now is the time to make a new plan of what you want going forward.

One of the things I roll over and over in my head when I think about the absolute bomb that was dropped on my life 4 years ago is how I wish I would have saved myself first. I was so desperate to hang on to the sham of a marriage I thought I had that I went against my gut instincts in the beginning. My biggest regret about that time was listening to friends and family who thought they had my best interests at heart which went against every fiber of my being. Even typing this out 4 years later, fully reconciled and very happy, my stomach is absolutely churning with the same feelings I had then.

So Deceived - put your own oxygen mask on first. You cannot make her change right now. All you can do is change your behavior and reactions to her absurd behavior. She wants to dress like a clubbie teenager and go flit about with her boyfriend? Great-she certainly can do that - from her own apartment. She wants privacy on her devices? Have at it - but not on your watch. You cannot demand she show you respect, but you certainly can command it. She will only treat you this way as long as you allow it.

It was only when I finally realized that I had to be willing to walk away from everything (and did!) that he realized exactly what he lost. You are worth fighting for, and don't settle for an ounce less of fight than you deserve.

I officially ended the couple's therapy tonight. She agreed.

She cleaned her phone when I first confronted her (before admitting A).

There might be info on that, but I'm more interested in her work iPad. I can't just take that, though. Legally, it would be a disaster for me.

If she says no, I'm going to say it's over. Prior to joining this site, I wouldn't have been able to do that.

Swizzlestick, wow.

That was an amazing way to look at this.

I wish I had found this site months ago!

Deceived-

What is on the iPad you need? Proof that she is a lying liar who lies? I can tell you that!

Seriously-you don't have to put yourself through that just to come to the same conclusion. She is still actively cheating. It is going to take some serious consequences before she realizes just how far she's gone down the rabbit hole.

Save yourself. Seeing more crap you already know isn't going to change the outcome.

Swizz

Deceived Guy

She did not even argue about stopping the therapy. That should tell you something. Keep pressuring her relentlessly and maybe she will get pissed enough to just spurt it out.

i would start the interrogation by asking her why she has gone from business suits to skirts three inches from her crotch at work, not for you. keep poking at her. She cares and respects you so little she will blab if she gets pissed enough.

Get to the attorney and present her the papers and then tell her to get an attorney asap. by the way, she will be paying for this since she is the financial provider. Get her some immediate consequences.

You can do better than this

Not over.

It's a game now. Divorce takes a year. A lot can happen. You just play the hand she dealt you. We are saying play it well. We are not saying shrug your shoulders and give up. People can and do reconcile. As we keep saying, you need to be willing to lose it to save it.

Kind of like asking for a raise. If the boss senses you are going to walk, and especially if you have another job lined up, you are golden. You'll probably get the raise.

Finally, check the credit cards and cell phone records on line and google every number you don't know ( most will be things like nail salon). Once you have the other numbers, go to a site like stumpthemonkey and reverse lookup the rest. You'll find him, and his wife, I promise. If she bought the cell phone you would need the account password, though. If its in your name they will text password to your phone.

You can do better than this

You absolutely can. Don't ask a liar anything. My favorite expression is "she is just a lying liar who lies."

Don't demand anything. Don't ask her another question. If there aren't snot bubbles begging for another chance and willing to do whatever.it.takes -- isn't isn't what you want.

Go dark. It was only when I completely threw in the towel and truly stopped caring what he did that he finally realized that he really did care. I literally called my fWH on NYE and told him to have at it. I was done. And I meant it, for the first time after months of the same agony you are living.

Again - ask yourself what you are trying to find. You know she lies. You know she cheated. You can (with relative certainty) say she is likely lying and cheating right now. Don't say a word. SHOW her just how that isn't going to work. Nothing has to be permanent. But you have to mean business.

You can do this. It will be hard, but it will be worth it. You are worth it.

Not over.

It's a game now. Divorce takes a year. A lot can happen. You just play the hand she dealt you. We are saying play it well. We are not saying shrug your shoulders and give up. People can and do reconcile. As we keep saying, you need to be willing to lose it to save it.

This is 100% true. Divorce papers were filed. He lived in a separate apartment and I kept the marital home. Thousands of dollars completely wasted.

4 years later - completely reconciled. Anything can happen. It isn't over until it is over, and that time isn't today. However, you can certainly speed up the process of ending the lying and nonsense.

I was going to confront her with our cellphone bill. "Unbelievably", on the day she said she ended it with her cellphone, the call is not there.

I wanted to have proof that she is still cheating. That's why I was going to tell her I want to see her electronics.

Deceived

If there is nothing wrong, and she wants to R, she needs to give you access to all the electronics, period.

You are looking for reasons not to confront. Sorry for the 2X4.

Any wife would also be concerned that her husband did not appreciate the way she was dressed leaving the house. i am surprised her business will let her dress like that. I worked all my career for Fortune 100 corporations and no one would be coming into the office with a skirt the length you described and not be sent home.

You have proof. Undeniable proof. What does your gut tell you? It NEVER lies. It took me a long time to really *get* that, but you can always trust your gut.

My gut is what led me to first realize there was something going on, months before she admitted to the A.

My gut tells me that there is still something going on.

Ok. So you know you can trust yourself. Remember--right now, she is a lying liar who lies. And rest assured that she is probably deleting every thing knowing she has gone underground with this.

I am a person who wants to know EVERY EFFING DETAIL. It kills me, even 4 years later, that I know there is more to the story that I'll never know. I truly believe that most people in that mindset hold whatever they possibly can tight to the chest and never told unless there is no other choice. That doesn't apply to all, as I know personally there are several awesome WS's here on this forum that bared all. But in my limited experience with my WS, I know he is taking stuff to the grave. I have done just about everything I can think of to get my hands on whatever proof I could. My actual evidence was slim -- I happened to catch his phone passcode out of the corner of my eye and hacked his phone while sleeping. And I only found a limited amount of info, which was extremely disappointing and completely unsatisfying.

Remember that gut feeling I was talking about earlier that even as far out as I am and being healed? It still churns when I talk about this portion of my life and the experience I had.

My point to all of that is no matter what, you aren't going to find what you are looking for. No amount of proof (or non-proof) is going to change the circumstances, which is really what we are all searching for, at least initially.

Don't keep looking. Don't confront. Just go radio silent. Rock the 180 (for YOUR benefit) and start learning to detach. Fake it 'till you make it if you have to. Do not give her the satisfaction of thinking she has 2 men pining and chasing after her. Even while it feels like everything is in shambles -- it will all come back together in the way it is supposed to. Time.

You can do this. You are worth it.

swizzle,

you don't think i should confront her about the fact that her alleged breakup phone call isn't on the phone bill?

i figured if i confronted her with that and told her there's nothing left to save since shes still lying, it would help move things along (in either direction she decides to go).

if she is enjoying having two lives (family life and affair life), wouldnt the 180 just encourage her to keep living both lives since there are no repercussions?

I have replayed this over and over. In 4 years, I must have thought this through at least 5000 times.

In hindsight, and with all of the knowledge I have now, I would have hefty bagged all of his stuff, calmly taken it to her house and left it at her door step with a note that basically said "he is your problem now." I would have filed immediately and let the chips fall where they may. That was my gut instinct. (It is amazing to me that my stomach is BURNING right now telling you this. Trust your gut!) I had well-meaning friends and family that told me not to do either of those things and though they were well meaning, they don't have to live with those choices today--I do.

I think you need to think through how you'd like this to play out. Are you ok with a divorce? That is rhetorical--I don't think anyone goes into marriage thinking, "gee, if it doesn't work out, there's always divorce. No problemo." I mean ok knowing that you aren't going to be the 3rd person in a marriage and are willing to stand up for your vows? You know your wife best, but I will say that we talk a LOT about their being a "cheater's handbook" because there tends to be some common patterns. By and large, the patterns tend to play themselves out accordingly.

In my situation, I took the passive approach. I didn't try to nice him back in the beginning, but I didn't take a stand either. He used that time to continue his affair with his co-worker under the guise of "space apart." My passiveness was perceived as weak by him and he took full advantage of the situation and my vulnerability. After nearly 5 months of utter ridiculousness, I finally snapped. I stood up for myself and said (literally) Eff you. You want a divorce (it had been filed but I wasn't served) - no problem. Our child and I had flights booked back to my home state and I let him know that while I'd covered absolutely everything over the previous 5 months, I was DONE. He was on the hook and he could have me served the second I touched down back in Missouri.

Something in him realized that I was 100% done. And he got it. He made a dramatic change.

I am fully reconciled with him and looking back on it now, it is like I am talking about my encounter with a pod person. It was another lifetime ago.

I tell you that because I want you to know that you don't have to tolerate her cake eating. You can shut that down immediately by going NC with her (no contact) except kids and finances. You are in a great place as a dad and she'd likely be on the hook if you were to divorce. She needs to understand that her choices have consequences, and I don't see the need for you to continue to have to dig for a reason. I also get the need for confrontation and calling her out on her bad behavior. My only word of caution is that she knew the impact this had on you when she was caught originally and she doesn't seem to care. Based on that, I think you will find what happens in the confrontation very dissatisfying. I doubt she is going to come clean and start groveling. She really has no reason to until she knows it is all truly on the line. I know that is hard to realize, but there isn't a lot of incentive for her to change her behavior right now. Confronting her and telling her what you know just shows her how much you know--nothing else. She knows what she is doing.

If you go dark, she no longer knows where things stand. She has to wonder, which causes confusion. When you are confronting, you are showing her that it still matters to you what she does and she takes that as investment, that she still "has you." You know the old saying, "no publicity is bad publicity?" Very similar. Any attention is better than none.

And also--why does she get to decide the direction this is going to take? What about your choice? Don't wait for someone else to decide how YOUR life is going to play out. Your life, your decisions. You can't control what she is going to do at all, and you can't rely on a word she says. All you can do is make the best decisions you can based on the information you have available to you. Period. But you certainly don't need to wait for her to decide!

well, that didnt go too well.

looks like divorce.

i said i cant take this anymore and she said she couldnt either.