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The OBS just emailed me a picture of a card my WW had gotten the AP. The text of the card read "All I Need is You" and she signed it "I love you".

It is very difficult to see your wife's handwriting, that she loves another man.

She claims not to remember ever giving him a card. I can see why she would not want to think of it now, and probably hopes there is no evidence of it anywhere. Except there it was.

The OBS also sent me a pic of a hand-dated a beer coaster with the date "Aug 6 2011" in my wife's handwriting. I don't know why she would do that, something worthy of commemoration in the affair must've happened that day I guess. I checked my archived time logs from work, and it shows I wasn't working that day. WW told me she only saw the AP when I was out of town or on workdays, just before or right after work, on the way home. But August 6th 2011 was a Saturday, so I was apparently sitting at home like a chump while she was out with the guy she had already been seeing for 4 years at that time.

Is it ironic that the OBS would show me this stuff EXACTLY 3 years to the day later? Is it likely the OBS trying to poison our recovery? I'm just sitting here shaking. Is it adrenalin that makes your hands shake like that?

I'm sorry Crushed...that's a very cruel thing for the other BS to do. She is probably raging and striking out at the wrong person. Instead of focusing on her husband she is trying to hurt your wife, but really hurting and abusing you in the process. Those are things you don't need to see...it's been 3 years. I did the same thing to the other BS in my case I am very ashamed to say. It was 2 years later for me and I was in such a rage/anger stage I wanted to lash out to everyone and anyone...in me trying to hurt the OW I sent a horrible e-mail to her husband that probably hurt him very badly. It was a very selfish and cruel thing that I did and to this day regret doing it. I wanted to punish her (the OW)...I'm willing to bet the BS is doing that by sending you that stuff. She is probably in a very bad place emotionally with her healing or possibly she knows her and her husband are not going to make it. And yes, it is the adrenalin. Every time I would see a piece of evidence or thought I was about to see evidence my whole body would shake for hours. So sorry that happened to you. What did your wife say about such a painful thing happening to you?

Is it adrenalin that makes your hands shake like that?

More than likely, yes.

I am so sorry. That must have been shocking and hurtful. I agree with everything LoveActually posted.

It might be best to block this OBS now, Crushed. I don't understand the OBS's motives as far as trying to poison your recovery or not, but it is something you shouldn't have to deal with. (((Crushed)))

so I was apparently sitting at home like a chump while she was out with the guy she had already been seeing for 4 years at that time.

Don't feel too badly, My Wayward was emailing and texting his OW as we snuggled in bed together, watching TV.

I was not then the snoopy type and never tried to read over his shoulder.

Is it ironic that the OBS would show me this stuff EXACTLY 3 years to the day later? Is it likely the OBS trying to poison our recovery?

I received information the OWs betrayed spouse found, a few years after the fact, too. At the time, he found evidence that she was still calling, emailing and texting and GPS evidence that she was driving past our house, daily.

The OW was doing all those things. We knew about it.

Still, I am glad he informed me of what was going on, and even though he sent some old emails and letters along with the new stuff that were painful for me to read, I was still glad he sent them.

I wanted to be informed.

Why do you think she is trying to destroy your wife's reconciliation? That would not be in her best interest.

I'm just sitting here shaking. Is it adrenalin that makes your hands shake like that?

Adrenaline would cause that type of reaction. It may be a "fight or flight" type of reaction.

[This message edited by seethelight at 1:47 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

Oops double post. Post deleted.

[This message edited by seethelight at 1:48 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

Dear Crushed,

Wow! I am so sorry and really understand your pain.

In order for the OBS to be sending you stuff 3 years later, it means she is still suffering from the after-affects of her FWH's A - the anniversary of Dday being a HUGE trigger for her. I am discouraged to see that kind of behavior, to be honest. For so many reasons, some of them selfish.

I know how much it hurts to see the crap our WS's said to the OP's during their A's. On some of my threads you will find similar stuff that I received from the OW - my FWH telling her how happy she made him, how the world was complete because she was in it, and of course, how much he loved her.

The good news - and it is what you need to hold onto - is that your FWS is now with you and only you - by choice. I am sure she cringes at the words the OBS sent you (to say the least!).

Hang in there!! Do not allow the cruel actions of others destroy what you and your W are trying so hard to repair.

[This message edited by needfriendshere at 1:48 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

oh man I so know the hands shaking

OW posted on FB how my WH sent her flowers = on Mother's Day to the office = with his lovely hand-written note

so yep, I get to have the OW smear her OC mess all over mother's day thanks to the idiotic behavior of my WH to "honor" her ... and yet,

if I really want to end the pain shopping and question "My WH loves the OW" is that thought true?

He and the kids spent time with each other putting a whole photo montage together and making my day super special = I was with my family on that day not stuck in some office posting two-dimensional lies about life

so yah, I hate what my WH did as I am sure you can feel that hurt equally as bad but then I realize that hallmark cards are ... meh, dime a dozen and that broken-brain-ness of my WH is so 2012, and it's the middle of 2014

so here's to hoping you recognize

you can't change the past but you can shape your future by focusing on your present

animals fuck all the time and it doesn't make it love... just my crass way of rationalizing that adrenalin, seratonin or whatever other ego-kibble chemicals course through the wayward druggie-head to provide the high = doesn't make it love and words are meaningless

are her actions loving today?

focus on actions

all the best

I owe this OBS a great debt because it was she who finally clued me in to the affair. I knew neither her nor the AP, and was really blindsided by the news when she called and told me. She'd found out TWO years earlier, and had called and threatened my WW, so they took the affair underground. When she learned about it again, she deliberated for a while and finally called me on Valentine's Day, 2013, and left a bogus voicemail. When I returned her call the next day, she identified herself and told me what she knew - that my wife had been running around with her husband for FOUR years (turned out it later was really 5 1/2 years).

Over the next months, she was instrumental in ferreting out the truth from my WW's lies and omissions about the affair. I've lost count of how many times I learned the truth from my WW only after I confronted her with something I had learned from the OBS. The OBS claims to have forgiven my WW but not her WH's first AP (my wife was #2 apparently - and my WW even KNEW about the guys' previous affair (he confessed it to her to gain her trust in a "woe is me" kind of way. He is a classic manipulating narcissist, IMO.) SO I don't know why she'd want to lash out at her - unless its because she's D'ing and we are trying to recover. She is only human and I know she is in pain too, after a 30 year marriage where her WH cheated twice in LTAs.

Anyway, I asked to see this stuff - the OBS had emailed me with a question about it, and I had no idea about the card or the coaster, so I asked to see pictures of them). So its sort of my own fault.

Except, I think my WW should've remembered the only card she ever gave the AP, with "I love you" handwritten on it. Wouldn't you remember an incident like this if it was so infrequent? I am suspecting my WW prefers to omit uncomfortable facts and pretend to not remember them. And I know she tries to minimize situations, to distort the truth, to try to spare me the pain of the truth.

I don't know if I could really feel any worse, or hurt any more, so I think it would be OK for her to tell me everything and stop holding back or altering facts - it only makes it more difficult to trust her when I later find out the truth. She just seems unable to grasp that, or carry it out, even after reading "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" twice.

it only makes it more difficult to trust her when I later find out the truth.

this is so true for me too

focus on this more than anything if you can talk with your WW = you know I am preaching to the choir = it's about rebuilding trust and it's only 3 years out

I can't stand the "forgetfulness" either, while at the same time I know my WH and I do not have photographic memories about our history over the past two decades

so yah LTA's really mean long term recovery

hopefully she realizes she has an opportunity to step up and provide the empathy, care and compassion for this wounding - share that pain with her and hopefully you two grow closer as a result

wabi sabi it's all about the journey every day

Why do you think she is trying to destroy your wife's reconciliation? That would not be in her best interest.

Because to her, Crushed's WW is the OW. A few mins in the "General" forum should give you some insight into how that makes her viewed by OBW.

My wife was physically attacked by OBW, 3 months after the A was clearly over. OBW has told me that she is very very angry that my wife may get to keep her marriage. OBW never hesitates to mention the the A to folks, even strangers.

That said, I do not for a minute regret telling her of the A. If it hadn't died already, that killed it for sure. She has helped maintain NC. And OBW quickly sold their house and moved OM out of the neighborhood.

That's the only card the two of you BS's know about. OM may have been smart enough to trash the others. If there were others.

does she recall getting any tokens of affection from him? If she got any, what happened to them? If they are around, ceremoniously trash them. Or burn them. Together. You'll see if here are tears,in her eyes.

Thanks for your kind thoughts and support guys.

@LoveActually

What did your wife say about such a painful thing happening to you?

She doesn't know yet that I've seen images - but I plan to talk to her about it tonight. I can't imagine how she could not remember giving him the only card she ever gave him, or what she wrote on it. It hurts me terribly, but I'd like to talk to her gently about what she was going through herself at that time and try to understand.

@NeedFriendsHere

The good news - and it is what you need to hold onto - is that your FWS is now with you and only you - by choice. I am sure she cringes at the words the OBS sent you (to say the least!).

I think she will feel the OBS of meddling and trying to harm our recovery; to keep me in the same painful place that she is in, since misery loves company. I *want* to think I am WWs one and only again. But I don't know if I'll ever have that confidence again. TT is an absolute killer - if only she'd been truthful with me from the first moment and never failed. But I think I understand the mentality of TT'ing, and I try to think my way past it. But inside my chest, it is a different story.

@Merida

are her actions loving today? focus on actions

So many of her actions are remorseful and loving. She's just had trouble being open and truthful about things, which I find concerning. At some point I have to be able to trust her again, that she will be truthful and faithful. She says there is no question about it though - that she has an identity now and would never, ever, put herself in a position to cheat on me again.

was a Saturday, so I was apparently sitting at home like a chump while she was out with the guy

I completely understand that feeling and it is something that still bothers me today.

Being at home, doing whatever and thinking my wife was out shopping or working and I knew nothing different.

Now looking back, I still sometimes feel odd on Saturdays.

But I think I understand the mentality of TT'ing, and I try to think my way past it.

The mentality that it is selfish and cruel? And until a wayward can get past that part of themselves, they are not a good candidate for reconciling?

Sorry, I know it's harsh, but I just don't understand why you'd let that stuff slide.

At some point I have to be able to trust her again, that she will be truthful and faithful.

You can only do this once she has proven to you, time and again, that she has earned that trust. And because she TT and lies and covers her actions, you are wise to not trust her.

Wow, just wow. I'm sorry what crappy thing to have to deal with.

Hang in there Brother I don't know what to say.

But I will tell you a horrible story from my FWW affair.

So I was fed the same line. THey would meet up after work when they were supposed to be going to a professionals group. Found out during TT that she told me she had to work on New Years Eve. Well she left me and DD at home and went to meet OM at a motel and spend New Years having sex with him.

After I found out I remember her telling me when she left "Dont wait up it will probably be late when I get home".

My guess? The OBS is perhaps dealing with an unremorseful WS. She sees your recovery as your WS getting away with it with no consequences.

I'm not saying it's right, but it could be the reasoning behind her sudden emailing you pics of stuff your WW gave to her H. She may also somehow know that your WW has not been 100% honest with you and is trying to give you all of the info she has? Perhaps she just uncovered these things?

It sucks. Watch your WW's actions & reactions. That will speak volumes.

@Lucky2HaveMe

The OBS is most certainly dealing with an unremorseful WH, and is D'ing. He absolutely doesn't get it. This is his 2nd LTA she knows of, and he blames the affair on her - for not loving him enough to keep track of his whereabouts. She's had him in counseling but he won't go anymore, because there "is nothing wrong with him." (his words). His adult children refuse to speak to him after they learned of the affairs.

She's had this info since before my D-Day. I think the timing of her bringing it up is very suspicious - the date my wife wrote on the coaster was 3 years earlier to the day. I think it must've been on her mind and she just wanted to share the pain. I can't blame her for that. And as much as it hurts, I do get to see pieces of the affair my WW hid from me, intentionally or not. I was in the dark for such a dreadfully long time, I feel like I want to know every last f*^&@ing detail and get it over with. I'm so tired of being the last to know.

@Rebreather

I know my WW doesn't see TTing as cruel and selfish, but as trying to protect me from pain. I would just rather know and see everything at once and process the pain, rather than drag it out. I don't know how to deal with it. I think ultimatums would only ensure that the truth never really comes out - she would hold on to any lie (if there are still some) more tightly than ever, since admitting lying now would cost her the relationship. I just don't think I can fairly put that kind of pressure on her - she seems so fragile.

She completely crumpled into tears when I showed her the images of the card and coaster last night. Even after seeing the card, she claims she does not remember giving it to him. She wants me to understand that she was living in complete confusion and everything was blurry to her, so there is ALOT about a 5 1/2 year affair that she doesn't remember, and gets terrified when stuff comes out that she didn't recall, and then gets accused of more trickle-truthing.

[This message edited by Crushed15Feb13 at 2:14 PM, August 7th (Thursday)]

Crushed15Feb13 - you're a better man than I. If I would have found such hand written note, I think I'd die. My FWW once texted him "I can't stop thinking about you. You're inside of me". The text is freak'n inscribed in my brain.

@2M2Q

I feel your pain.

Was thinking how WW may never be able to give me a card that says "I love you". That's sad in a way, but maybe time passing will change that.

Crushed:

Was thinking how WW may never be able to give me a card that says "I love you". That's sad in a way, but maybe time passing will change that.

Yep, I know the feeling. My FWW and her boy biggest activity was making out. Took me a long time to do so with wifey unless I was drunk. To this day I have a hard time with it. Even watching it in movies or described in songs. They madeout passionately. Now I'm ruined because I can NOT do that with wife.