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you continue to live in your own hell and none of it is your fault but you aren't helping yourself.

You are scared to leave probably because of the kids but you are now one step closer to cuckold material.

Man up

np5, is she still living separately right now?

I hope you continue posting here np5. I know it is hard when it seems like an onslaught of 2x4s. Asking her to leave after the latest breach of nc was a huge step. I know you badly want to work it out with her, want *her* to want it bad enough to do it, and it's very hard when no matter how much we want it, we ultimately can't control it. It has to come from them - the desire for R, the work for R, the boundaries for R, the efforts for R. We can't make them, will them, or beg them for it.

I think you are close to a breaking point that could go 2 ways - either throwing your hands up and living in a miserable state while your wife continues this. Or throwing your hands up and turning your focus to the one thing you can control - you -

Lark,

My wife and I are on speaking terms, but we are not in the same bedroom. DD#2 and I are doing "homework" together. I have a lot of work to catch up on. My business has been rather left to run itself for a bit as I wallow in my sadness...

I love my wife very much, so those of you who call her names, please stop. It's not helpful.

Ya'll make many good points, so many I can't address. Please know that I appreciate it.

I realize I can't change my wife or fix her. I can only control me and hopefully shield what I can from my daughters. I have tried to convince them it's just a friendship that has gone off the rails a little with which I am uncomfortable. That is my story for now as best as I can contain.

DD#1 is far too perceptive to buy that so I think IC is in order. The others I think will be OK, but I will keep my ears out for issues. Thank you for your concern for them. That really is what has me worried more than anything. The Navy has toughened me up immensely, but my 4 girls are my treasure.... My wife feels the same way, but I don't think she realizes what she is doing to us.

My wife will find her way in due time. The question is how much punishment will we take in the interim before she makes it through?

Western, a cuckold is:

Cuckold historically referred to a husband with an adulterous wife and is still often used with this meaning. In evolutionary biology, the term cuckold is also applied to males who are unwittingly investing parental effort in offspring that are not genetically their own

My children are all my own and my wife has not fucked another man, I do not believe. So technically I am not a cuckold quite yet. One step closer? I don't think so, I think we are moving further from them having sex as I establish my boundaries and greater "encouragement" is being given for lesser and lesser violations of those boundaries. The fact that my wife is purposefully testing those boundaries is more a testament to her stubbornness than my leniency to her violations of my boundaries.

Wolprut, I've been to Amsterdam. My sister lived there for several years. Very different from this part of the US! You have a beautiful country. My children are quite isolated from many of the damaging influences of society and societal "norms". But no one can perfectly protect them, nor should we expect to. Sin has a way of working its' way in. It has here, but I will do my best to protect them in my way as best I can.

Prickle, Thanks for your concern. I am doing the best to minimize and protect, but you are right in that it does take two. I can only control me and I think Edith and I are winding down here, for better or worse.

Happyman -- I love your username. High School at a Catholic HS is $12k+ while HS at a homeschool accredited hybrid is 4k. DD1 and DD2 were very enthusiastic and for my wife it was very hopeful and promising--a possible escape from a fair amount of her troubles. It would save 10 hours of driving a week, I think--all my wife's. As far as working there, she is a dentist and I really consider that a full time job. It is very demanding.

Veronica, only in the last few months have I established boundaries. She is getting used to them and has been testing them!! I am surprised at the onslaught, quite frankly. Your comment hit me very hard because I know it is me that has allowed this to go on and abuse me. I thought my wife would come around sooner. Really I did!

Hummingbird, straight to the heart of the matter! Of all the tidbits of data I have had to put together and the info from "wellwishers" that include a person named, "John Smith" and also DD#3 turning in my wife, I can only recall one bit of info that she has confessed that has amounted to anything: When she spent an afternoon at the OM hotel room, rather than just "holding hands and leaning against OM" she confessed to lying in bed with him. That, for me was significant. She did give me access to an email account that they used, but it seemed picked clean of many messages. I could see tell tale signs of other messages that were no longer there. So no, I don't think she has confessed to anything. Either I am just fucking amazing at figuring everything out, or there is a good bit more that I don't know.

Thanks again for posting and please pray for us.

Edith understand she made her daughters a party to adultery?

Western...

You have a PM.

So she's lying to the kids..kids who she has used to hide her affair.

You're lying to the kids, and you think you have lied to them well enough that they buy the lie that OM is the one trying to make your WW cross boundaries. Except one daughter, who is "far too perceptive,so she is the only one you think needs IC. So she needs IC....because she knows her mom is having an affair, and dad isn't strong enough to stop being a doormat( your words)..or you think she needs IC so they can try to convince her that mom isn't cheating?

The kids know way more than you think..and they talk to each other..So if one has figured it out, they all know...I know you won't believe that..But maybe they have learned how to lie from their parents.

The kids have been involved. They deserve the truth, in an age appropriate manner. Both parents are lying their asses off and they know it. They need to have at least one parent they can count on. It can't be your WW,she has shown that. It has to be you

You're lying to your kids to protect your wife. You are causing permanent damage to your kids,and your relationship with them.

I will respect your wish to not tell you what she is posting. I will say you should encourage her to be honest, and not leave out huge details.

Have you verified her story about the dance club, and spending the night at her friends house yet?

Why not?

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:13 AM, February 24th (Tuesday)]

Not to be crude but your wife’s actions reminds me a lot of the actions of my Labrador dog:

He’s not allowed on the hardwood floors in our living room and he knows that, so he will lie completely outstretched with a tiny bit of one rear-paw touching the flooring outside the living room but 99% of him in the room.

His thinking? He’s probably saying “Look dad – since my paw is touching the floor outside the living room then I’m not really IN the room. I’m not breaking any rules”

Why does he do it? Well – he likes our company. We are a “ray of light” for him…

I really want to stress I’m comparing your wife’s actions to the dog’s behavior – not your wife to a dog. If anything I have a reputation for being lenient on WS and I wouldn’t stoop so low as to insult your wife. When push comes to shove she is and will always be the mother of your children.

You have been struggling for quite some time. I remember reading your posts and wondering if I should voice my opinion. Honestly – when I read situations like yours I really wonder what good our advice will be… You really sound reluctant to follow it. I have this theory that once we think “our” situation is so special and unique that the common advice doesn’t apply then SI really can’t be of any help.

Like your stance on exposure… Why do you seem willing to risk killing your marriage rather than some perceived embarrassment you might (or might not) encounter if you expose? OK – I get it that back in the beginning you might have felt some fear bur now… Well… it sounds like everyone knows already. At least everyone that is most negatively impacted by an ongoing affair.

For what its worth I can suggest what I would think is a good strategy:

To-date you have been telling your wife what she can and can’t do. Like my dog she’s been skirting the outer borders of those limits. Stop it. Unlike my dog then your wife has one thing given to all humans: A free will.

Tell her she’s totally free to see, date, phone, monitor, and keep in touch with and whatever else she wants with OM. You won’t monitor it any more or prevent it in any way.

But… NOT AS YOUR WIFE.

IF she wants to remain your wife then it’s up to her to assure you that the affair is over. It’s up to her to convince you that she wants to be married. It’s up to her to ask you what you need and to find out what she can offer.

Part of this process is removing all and any hindrances your wife might think are in place to either reconcile or divorce. What you want to achieve is a state where she remains with you solely and purely because she chooses to do so and wants to.

So you don’t threaten a messy divorce. Instead you simply state the truth: IF this ends in divorce there are processes to ensure you both get a fair deal.

Social embarrassment? You let her know everyone knows already and that if this ends in divorce that stigma will last all of…. a week… or until some Hollywood star divorces or politician is caught in bed with a teenager.

Finances? Yes tough for a year then things will pan out.

Basically what you do is you set her free…

And then YOU move on out of infidelity. You take the steps necessary for YOU to feel OK. If she really wants the marriage then she will follow. If not – well – then at least YOU won’t be updating your profile with new d-days every couple of months.

My Mom was an AP. I actually saw her embracing another man. You know what happened to me? I attempted suicide, had a complete breakdown and spent two months in a mental facility.

That's the reality of what your girls are living with. I was told "this is between your father and I" countless times. If anything, that attitude is even more bewildering to a child as they're left to fill in their own blanks.

You can tell yourself that you're protecting them all you want, but the truth is that they're more perceptive than you realize. I urge you to get at least the oldest two into counseling. Your poor sweet innocent ten year old has been put into a terrible position. My heart aches for your girls.

So no, I don't think she has confessed to anything. Either I am just fucking amazing at figuring everything out, or there is a good bit more that I don't know.

my wife has not fucked another man, I do not believe.

Why do you believe this? After all of her lies?

Why would you believe she would get naked in a hotel room..and "just"

lean into OM?

*Edited to add: Oh..I see she has now admitted she laid down on the bed with him in that hotel room. Hmm. Sounds like TT to me.

OM is getting something out of this affair. It has gone on for a very long time. In my opinion, having been here on SI for awhile now, it seems most OM are having affairs with married women because they are after sex. Do you honestly believe this man would continue to stay in contact with your ww, knowing you know, knowing you could ruin his reputation as a music teacher, all so your ww can bat her eyelashes at him? Come on, np5.

You are in a serious fog. You are in denial. You won't verify her crazy stories when she stays out all night. You won't read her posts here. You blame everyone else except your WW.

Are YOU in IC?

[This message edited by confused615 at 7:25 AM, February 24th (Tuesday)]

Enough about your wife.

I'm am going to address your actions with your daughters.

You are lying to them. I don't know where you grew up or how your grew up, but I can NOT fathom lying to kids, and thinking that it's all going to be OK.

By lying about something they already have an understanding of you have single handedly, lost any credibility, and their trust.

They KNOW. They KNOW you LIED. They KNOW Mom is involved in an inappropriate relationship.

You would do more to help your children by calling it what it is, and telling them that you made a promise to love her forever, and even though it hurts, and its hard you are a man of conviction and strength.

That will gain you some respect.

I remember one post I believe it was around September where your oldest or second oldest went off on you, and you folded just like you when your wife bullys you. I called you out on it then, and you chose to ignore my words (which is fine take what you can and leave the rest). Your kids are going to repeat their parents behaviors. Its human nature. It's why there are cycles of infidelity, abuse, and addiction.

Show them what's right and what's wrong. Be brave, be strong. Quit abusing your children.

I was 17 when I had to work with my mom to discover and out my dad's A. This was almost 25 years ago. I will always have scars from this ordeal. Please, please, please, spare your children. Be honest with them, but limit their exposure. Get them into counseling and let them know it's OK to talk to their counselors about any aspect of their parents and their mom's A. Be a father, please,

NP5,

It doesn't matter if your wife posts here or not. She is not telling the truth and the waywards who have read her posts already know that.

Leaving everything else aside for a minute, I along with everyone else I think are amazed that you really have or seem to have no interest in finding out the truth about last Monday night.

Do you really believe some idiot chased her in a public place into a bathroom and that the other man was not there????? Really believe that????

Most here believe i think that that whole episode was a lie and that she spend the evening with her boyfriend. There is your first question for the polygraph test.

it is just so perplexing that it seems like you DO NOT really want to catch her. She has agreed to polygraph but you will not do it. It is because i think you know you have no real intention of doing anything but make another excuse for her.

Reconciliation can only be done with the truth and you are not getting that and never have since this has begun. That is why there has been no progress.

One of the other posters made a so true statement. Why does Mr. Music Man hang around if there is no sex. Too fucking unbelievable that two adults have this level of attraction and they are just "a breath of fresh air". he either gets the Mother Theresa award of the year or your wife has been banging him.

There is no end in sight here until it is determined if she is lying about the sexual relationship not happening. And ONLY a polygraph is going to determine that because she is going to cling to that bull shit until the end of time.

I truly hope you can summon the strength to settle this for yourself and your family. It cannot go on like this and SHE IS NOT MAKING PROGRESS to anyone else here but you. none of us know one another, and when there is a general unanimous opinion on here, the group is hardly ever wrong. You know that. You have read too mmuch here and are too smart.

You have been through hell. Your health is the next thing that will go if you do not get some closure here. Your kids need a healthy Dad.

Do it NP5. Get the polygraph scheduled. If she is still lying, divorce her and get your family safe again. If she is not lying, you will have some concrete information to move forward with or attempt to.

NP5,

Clearly you are going to do what you are going to do. If you don't want to take the common advice, that is your choice.

Can I just say that I've noticed a common theme that applies to you, not Edith.

It would appear that when you perform your risk analysis and cost-benefit-analysis that you are giving far more weight to the benefits than to the risks and costs. You cannot base these assessments on your hopes for the future, but rather they should be based on the facts of the present.

It would appear you have a habit of minimizing or ignoring risks and true costs. Perhaps this is a pattern you should investigate further in counseling. It is just a pattern I am seeing in these threads and others and thought perhaps it was worth pointing out an issue you can choose to address, an issue that you do have control over, an issue that would touch many corners of your life.

Wishing you and your children the best.

Good luck.

If you are not going to save yourself at least save your kids.Your reactions or lack therof, the only thing I can think is you didn't have a father figure growing up or you were abused as a kid.

Sadly I am serious please get help and don't let this be more learned behavior.

NP...

Hey man. The first stage is denial. Think on that. You haven't fully grasped the reality of your situation.

Your wife cheated. Your kids know. Now isn't the time to show them weakness. Now is the time to show them what would happen if they did cheated when they grow up and get married.

If your wife stops, you have two options: reconcile or divorce. Until she stops, you have only one option.

np5 - I think you come here to find reasons to defend your wife. You continue to believe her nonsense - naked in a hotel with OM and nothing happened? Um, ok. Sure. Wanna buy a bridge?

Right - I wanted to tell you that I hope whatever you're hiding from doesn't find you, because you seem terrified of it. I do hope you find a way to shield your kids before it's too late, if it's not already.

I don't think you want advice, I think you want people to tell you that you're right and your wife is innocent except for lying and being naked with other men in hotel rooms and breaking NC as far out as 18 months after you discovered 'inappropriate' discussions, and she's been physically faithful the entire time. Well, I'm not the person to do that, so I wish you luck and safe hiding.

Best wishes,

Painfulpast

Dad -

Pay attention to that personal pronoun.

Your children are hurting.

And they are vulnerable.

Ask any child of an adulteress what it was like growing up in a house of betrayal, what they wished the most from their dads.

You might hear of the desperation to stop making them the policemen of their mothers - who also put them in the middle of keeping secrets. The tug of war. The pain. The desire for escape. And as adults, the utter lack of respect for either parent in the situation, even if they sympathize with their dads. Many times, they see self-inflicted pain, while bearing adult-sized burdens as children that they should NEVER have been asked to carry.

Ask any child of an adulteress what it was like catching their mother in the act of betraying their father how their mothers treated them after?

You might hear of toddlers being made to question their experiences as memories got minimized to imagination. You might hear of young children being sexualized earlier than they could handle their feelings or their curiosity. You might hear about teen boys then becoming predators themselves ending up in the juvenile justice system, or just troubled and suicidal, having no appropriate outlet that aligns with their social and religious training.

You might hear of the subtle and not so subtle abuse by the mothers, years after it happening, still causing pain on the adult children of such a marriage. All to keep the adulterous mother's secret from reaching dad.

This is the squeeze-play on your children. I GUARANTEE your daughter who caught her mother skyping OM feels your betrayal at revealing her to her mother. She is now bearing the brunt of your wife's manipulation on your children, especially her. She carries inappropriate guilt for causing the near-separation.

Meanwhile your wife has learned once again that tantrums, suicide threats, and selfish drama behavior can get you to back away from the brink of giving her some real consequences.

Your. Poor. Children!

Stand up and be their father! Stop putting them in the middle and make a decision and stick with it!

I GUARANTEE your daughter who caught her mother skyping OM feels your betrayal at revealing her to her mother.

Of course she does.

I talked with my children one on one and told them that DD#3 caught mom Skyping with OM and that I was very upset with mom. She was in huge trouble

Because right here, you put the blame on your daughter. Because SHE caught your wife, now mom is in trouble.

You blamed her. Just like OM. Just like her friend. Just like everyone else..except your wife.

Now your daughter is responsible for your WW's actions.

I could tell you about all of the drugs I used while trying to deal with the pain of growing up in a house with a mother who cheated on my Dad and refused to stop. I could tell you about all of the risky behaviors I engaged in and all of the times I probably should have and wanted to die as a teenager. I could tell you how that experience continues to affect me in profoundly negative ways even as a 33 year old man. I could tell you about how much it sucked trying to help my younger siblings try to deal with that shit when I was just a kid myself. I could tell you about the bitterness that comes from loving my aging parents but not really respecting either of them. I could tell you all of that, but I'm pretty sure you won't listen.

If you do listen to anything, though, please let it be this: Stop lying to your children. They are not stupid and you are modeling horrible behaviors for them.