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DG,

Stop torturing yourself, go find someone to crack these passwords. Believe me it will take any IT guy less than 10 min to do it.

Obviously, she had screwed up big times. the A goes longer than you think and much more things had happened. Out of her shame, she will would prefer to get a divorce rather than let you read her emails. On the other side, she is totally protecting her OM. His safety, is much more important to her. Her language is so manipulative and dictated, I guess she is following someone legal advice from someone. I don't see that she is so sorry from her emails, she is playing you.

DG, I have anger issues. Always have. Stupid shit pisses me off. By stupid shit, I mean things that are morally wrong. It irritates the hell out of me, to be completely honest. What your wife is doing here is the exact same shit mine did with me. Used my anger to push the blame on to me. Please don't get fooled by the tactic. Leaving your wife and doing the 180 is hard, I completely understand it was the hardest thing you've ever done in your life. It's what you had to do! Now, the password. Drop the legal non sense and everything less. Bring it to an IT guy, get it cracked. Put yourself out of this misery. Do it for yourself.

Sorry to say, but fuck her!

There is so much more that you dont know and she is trying to hide...PA as EA for a longer period.

She bad mouthed you as well and I believe OM made fun of you and she agreed. Maybe she stressed how much better OM was in bed.

All I can see is that She is protecting OM.

IMO If she was really worry about you she would have give you all the ifno you need long time ago.

One thingshe is rigth, get you self in IC ASAP for your own sanity, not to lose your anger, not to forgive her but for you own good.

Get her serve ASAP so she can taste a bit of reallity and maybe stop protecting OM.

Good luck

I think a lot of BS, myself included, are desperate to find out the truth. Sadly, a lot of us never find out, and we learn to move on from the WS without knowing the full truth.

In your case, all signs point to her having a long-term PA with POSOM and potentially also other physical affairs. I'm wondering whether you really need to know the specifics to know whether to move on from her. What could be in those messages that would make or break your marriage/decision to try to reconcile?

Why are the contents of the laptop so important to you that you're willing to risk legal troubles etc.? Why not go for divorce now?

Best wishes

DG:

About the laptop and phone, I believe the problem is not breaking the passwords but the consequences for doing it.

Did you consider asking OM for the emails and pic sent? Why don't you ask ME for it?

IMO You can break the PS and copy everything using a tech guy that makes sure there is no way she will know you did it. The trick here is that you cannot confront her or OM about any of the things you may see as this would incriminate you. This will be only for knowing that you are doing the right thing D.

From other angle you should answer to your self these:

Do you believe you may be hurt more for reading those emails?

Do you believe she is right to be scared of your actions once you read everything?

What is the worst thing that may happen, legally speaking, if you do it? Does it worth it?

Knowing what’s in there will give you anything that you don’t already have or need to move on, in any direction (D or R)?

If you are leaving her anyway, whats the point?

So she can't spin crap that it was not as bad as OP is making it out to be. That's the point.

What I meant is that he already has enough information from her confession to D. More info what for?

As their kids are adults, when D is finish he won’t have to talk to her on regular bases. Maybe just on special occasions like weddings, funerals, etc. They don’t even have to be friends at all.

So why torture his self with details?

If DG needs to know everything to get some closure so be it. He just needs to be prepared for what he could find.

What you see can't being unseen;

What you read can't be unreaden; and

What you know can't be unknown.

DoneGone

I‘m still seeing more excuses than actions…

More pouting and posturing…

A number of us have pointed out ways to crack that computer without her knowledge.

A number of us have told you where and when that might have legal significance.

We have also told you how and where you can use that info.

So IF you want the info on that computer you CAN get it.

Even more of us have told you what to assume if she refuses to offer the passwords.

IMHO it’s reached a point where you either crack the computer or simply put that issue aside.

To me it sounds as if you have decided to cling on to the warning that hacking the computer will have negative legal impact on you.

Your WW seems totally committed to not telling you her password.

OK – that’s fine. That’s perfectly OK.

But then you need to move on.

You need to decide your next step.

Sending her a post where you demand the pw or else you divorce, having her send some reason for not telling you, you replying that you need the pw or else you divorce, having her send some reason for not telling you, you replying that you need the pw or else you divorce, having her send some reason for not telling you, you replying that you need the pw or else you divorce…. We could carry on for 11 more pages of this… But would still be at exactly the same place as now.

You have been asked about this before:

Why do you need to see the content of the computer?

What would be your point of no recovery for the marriage?

I think what you want/need is the TRUTH.

It’s not the password nor the content of the computer you really need – you need THE TRUTH.

I think that’s what you are after. You need to know the extent of the affair before you can commit to reconciliation. I totally get that. IMHO R is never possible if you don’t have the truth. However… it’s extremely rare (if ever) where you have the total truth right away. The truth tends to come over time.

Now… There is obviously something she’s hiding.

It’s so clear to all of us. I thing you too see it but maybe are afraid of opening your eyes to it… Sort of like waking to the wailing of smoke detectors and hoping that as long as you pretend to be asleep you can ignore it.

Maybe she’s been ranting about your issues with her BFF on Facebook. Maybe it’s “only” fantasy-writing. Maybe they met for coffee only for longer than you know. But maybe she was having sex with OM and all his friends for the last six years… Maybe she’s running a side-job as a dominatrix at a local sex club…

You don’t know… You simply don’t know. And that’s what’s killing you. You need the TRUTH and need to KNOW the extent of the affair.

So stop focusing on the password.

Focus on the TRUTH.

Consider telling her that you might be open to an MC session but at that first session she needs to give a clear description of the extent of the affair. You can even suggest she goes first and tells the MC, and then you come and hear what the MC says. The MC (who tends to be a trained counselor) can then possibly aid you with your anger issues and reactions.

Only the extent – that’s it. Not the excuses, the reasons or any other bullshit. She needs to tell him when it started, ended, what happened, where, intimacy, contact, communications, participants… You don’t give a flying f@ck if she did it because she was searching for her inner woman or because she wasn’t allowed to play with Barbie as a child. You want FACTS.

Make the concession that EVEN IF the affair was more extensive that she’s told you to-date you agree to a 30 day hiatus where you will not commit to divorce. A period of dialogue and nerve-calming. That shouldn’t be hard for you – as is you seem content on spending the next 30 days at sending her a post where you demand the pw or else you divorce, having her send some reason for not telling you, you replying that you need the pw or else you divorce, having her send some reason for not telling you, you replying that you need the pw or else you divorce….

Make it extremely clear that clear that IF that first session isn’t darn close to the truth… if you discover that the affair was even more extensive than she admits at THAT session… then that’s a clear indicator that there will never be the trust needed to reconcile. It’s a one-shot offer.

Keep in mind that “truth” and its importance IS relative. For example – if she tells you they started seeing each other early November but then it turns out to be mid-October then that’s pretty minor IMHO and could be a slip in memory or simply a difference in when it turned from meeting each other and when she felt they crossed some border.

However if she uses the classic WW line of “it was only oral” and then turns out it was full intercourse… well… that would be major. Not because it was fully sexual but rather because she lied to you about it when she has the chance of being honest. Right now the HONESTY is much more important than what actually happened.

OK DoneGone…

I’m not over being hard on you…

Once again I have offered you a number of solutions. A number of paths to move on.

Please don’t come back with more excuses. Argue my suggestions, tell me to f@ck off if you are so inclined, but remember: your thread wouldn’t be the first to slip into page 2 and beyond obscurity simply because the poster seems more interested on hanging on to the drama rather than progress out of infidelity…

You have made some positive steps.

Here is my question, is your anger that bad ? or is she just using that as an excuse for gaslighting you ?

Further, even if you had a temper, her cheating on you is inexcusable and in fact making your anger worse.

It's easy for her to say that she'll wait forever for you but yet how do you know things are over between her and OM and further how is she waiting if she is cheating ?

You deserve to know the truth. props on telling OMW. That will help in your cause and he deserves whatever shit he gets from her.

So what is your next step ?

What super chump wrote resonates with me..

It sucks that in the face of this wreckage, we have to find a way to get thru the day..... To work, be a parent, etc..

I think this kind of situation is worse than grieving the death of beloved immediate family..I am still very raw from the loss of my mom...She died almost 4 weeks ago...

When I compare my suffering in grieving Mom's death to my suffering in grieving the loss of my marriage to infidelity, infidelity won hands down...Many other people will say this resonates with them too...

With the death of my mom, I am able to grieve with some dignity.. This wasn't the case with my D-day and infidelity aftermath..

What I find helpful in my case is that the 180 works..I am not in R...

Unless your situation calls for it, there is no need to make major decisions about the marriage immediately..Your WW can be the one in limbo about where her life and marriage is headed..

However if I were you, I would immediately implement measures to protect your own life and livelihood....Physically...Emotionally..Financially....

Should you decide that you need to leave the marriage, you don't want to have to support a cheater at the expense of your own quality of life, retirement, etc...Same goes if you decide to R...

Your WW should be taking most of the risk on her shoulders if R is mutually decided upon..

Prayers sent your way..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 8:36 AM, April 22nd (Wednesday)]

It isn't very hard to retrieve the info you need from your WW's computer as others have stated..

Very true, if you get into your WW'S computer and see the truth of her A , you shouldn't tip your hand..

In my state, any info gotten from a wayward's personal electronic device would not do one any good in regards to a divorce settlement..With that said, the truth can do you a world of good in deciding what the heck you want to do with your life..

After reading thru some more of these posts I came to this conclusion..

Your story mirrors my own, if not exactly..

My WH was willing to do what was easy to R.....But he was NOT willing to do anything that involved risk..

The WH wanted to have some certainty that life would be good for HIM, if he decided to put any work into saving the marriage..I.E. I had to bend over backwards to meet his needs BEFORE he put in any work from his end..

My WH REFUSED to give up any passwords to his electronics..Most especially his phone..

His secrecy in regards to his computer/phone was more important to him than me, my wellbeing,the marriage..

So I gave up on R...Because of his actions to protect his secrecy, I gave up on wanting to know the secrets themselves..

I decided that WH was a person whom I did not want to trust or stay married to..Unlike yours, our marriage was a difficult one.. I saw no reason to salvage what little was left..I had lost a ton of love and respect for the WH before I found out about his A..

So my advice would be, WHY BOTHER to get into your WW's computer or phone to get specifics on what she has done..

It seems that your WW is telling you who she is and is giving you and the marriage lack of respect by protecting her secrecy..

Make your decisions accordingly..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:35 AM, April 22nd (Wednesday)]

DoneGone

I’ll give you kudo’s for telling the OMW.

I know I’m being pushy but you need a shove…

__________________________________________________________

******I met with an attorney and got a lot of information; none of it good, and absolutely nothing that will enable me to put a positive spin on any of this. At one point I asked him whose side he was on anyway. He sounded more like he was representing my WW than me. He said that telling me what I wanted to hear would not change the facts.

As a SAHM, WW will need financial support, at least temporarily, in order to get the education and training necessary to get a decent job. I asked him how long ‘temporary’ is? That is to be decided by the judge. How much financial support? Also to be decided by the judge. I’m thinking, well, at least I won’t have child support, one daughter is married and two are off at college. Beep, wrong again. In my state there is no cut off age for child support. If my children are still operating inside the sphere of parental influence (such as going to college) then my support obligations continue.

He also said I should return WW lap top and cell phone immediately. He said that snooping without her permission could have very unpleasant circumstances and make the divorce unnecessarily ugly, messy and uncomfortable for me in so many ways. He said that if I access this information without her authorization, it could be considered an infringement on her right to privacy.

Basically, WW can then file a civil suit against me on the grounds of invasion of privacy. He said that in my case, the invasion would be so conspicuous and flagrant that I could be subject to significant damages. Also, these damages could be collected by an offset against the marital assets. He did not want me going into this with unrealistic expectations.

Even though I have become resolved of the inevitability of divorce, he told me that my highly charged emotional state is a weakness that can be exploited by my WW and the one thing I want to avoid, at all cost, is a hostile divorce. I need to let go of the anger in order to be emotionally prepared to address the legal issues of divorce. He referred me to a domestic relations family law attorney, whom I met with this morning. Bottom line; my confiscating WW’s computer and cell are a big deal to this attorney also. ********

__________________________________________________________

Actually, having spoken to my share of lawyers, I actually think this lawyer is giving a realistic scenario of how divorce will look for the main, sole breadwinner in this kind of situation..In my state I know this to be true..DIVORCE LAWS SUCK in my state..

The betrayed sole/main breadwinner stands to lose 1/2 of what he or she has worked a lifetime ( as in my case) for...In my case I lose 1/2 of my retirement to a cheater who didn't put away any money for savings/retirement..

I also agree that this lawyer is correct in making the comment that handling legal matters is better done with a cold, deliberate, and well organized resolve...

She's already admitted the affair and also to stuff which will hurt him so much that bad things will happen.

I don't see any reason to reconcile based on this alone. Therefore you divorce.

Whilst I understand the urge to get to the bottom of what you don't know, it is not going to result in a decision to reconcile - So you divorce.

Unless the evidence in which you seek will help you with the settlement, no real need to dig further. So just divorce.

She doesn't want to come clean with anything and won't tell you what you need to know. That is a woman who is not interested in helping you get to a place where you can reconcile - so you divorce.

Do you see a pattern?

Here's an idea. Tell your wife that you will seek counselling, however, you will not go to her counsellor it will be one of your own choosing.

If she insists it must be her counsellor, then without a doubt, you know she's manipulating you. Because a MC works in the interest of the marriage, I've heard some say not to tell all. They think it would do more harm than good. I don't agree with that.

Whether you go to IC or not is up to you, but her reaction when you say you'll find your own IC should be noted

I'd do it in person, not text or email so you can see her demeanour.

About the emails, do you know if it's a Web based account, like Hotmail, Gmail or yahoo? If so, I can't think forthe life of me why she hasn't deleted these messages already by logging on anywhere. I don't understand why she wouldn't have done this.

The text messages on her phone will be more difficult or impossible to delete remotely though.

Do you know if the OMW has seen any of their emails? Only thing is he probably had a head start to delete them.

DoneGone,

My WW had an EA in front of me for nearly a year. Try as I might, she denied having an EA. He was only a friend, etc. etc.

That line worked until I was able to crack into her iPhone and then I was able to justify action. Then, and only then, was my WW able to call it what it was--an affair.

Since then I have received more TT and I have been searching for the elusive truth. "What" did they do? To me, the why and the how cannot be properly interpreted or addressed. It's been nearly two years since my first DDay and I am still struggling with the "what". The wondering and the seeking hasn't abated. I tried to tuck it away as "not important" or "unnecessary". But no matter how hard I tried to rugsweep, the questions never when away.

So here I am 20 months later and still wondering "what did you do?". I've tried to R. I've tried to be a better husband. I've listened to her try to explain the "why" and it can't be digested until you have the "what". At least it's that way for me.

Those that say "divorce"... With 5 kids 15-4, I am not prepared yet to do that. Perhaps it might work for you -- works for many. But if you are consider reconciling, you NEED the info. One thing I've learned in all of my married years is that a marriage can't thrive with a significant lie. And I've had my share to her and now her to me.

So reading some of your story, you are taking your time, and that's fine. You have time. But do get those texts and emails. Get them and print them out--you don't have to look at them or read them. Get them in your possession and just hold them until you're ready. You deserve to know and your family deserves for you to know so that your decisions are INFORMED.

Then you can decide to reconcile or divorce or seek more answers or forgive or even choose to not look. Sometimes just knowing that you have the answers if you need them helps.

I've been in your shoes and you're doing well--better than I did, so hold your head high.

Hope you get through this tough time and find peace...

Who gives a shit what's actually on the computer. If she refuses to let you see it, you can be assured that it is hideous. Probably better you don't see it.

If she is properly motivated to R-with conviction, she would let you see it. She would give you the passwords. The fact she is not willing to give you the passwords is all the proof you need that she is NOT R material. She needs to prove that she is worth the gamble-the very serious gamble that R is. She needs to prove that she is willing to due what ever it takes to make things right, to make you comfortable and feel secure, and get closure. She is protecting that computer like Pandora's box because she knows there some very probable deal breakers in there.

Tell her full disclosure-with all obtainable evidence, is your condition to R.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 6:15 PM, April 22nd (Wednesday)]

Sometimes just knowing that you have the answers if you need them helps.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------OMG I do know the feeling of NOT being prepared to get divorced..

And the preparation for divorce or separation may take years..

Coz as I said, laws sometimes don't do much to protect the main breadwinner BS who has a stay at home cheater..

Or like the previous poster Notperfect5 wrote, there may be too many young kiddos in the frey to consider divorce at the moment of D day... Or in the immediate aftermath..

If you can find any knowledge of your WW's escapades thru your investigations, that is good..

But knowing your WW's intentions thru her actions is more valuable..

Ultimately you have to protect yourself and your needs for survival..This need goes above and beyond your WW's need or desire for R to happen..

I would suggest that you demand that your WW do polygraphs at the intervals which you specify and that she cooperate with a Post Nup agreement in your favor(should you divorce) ..All of this is only as good as your WW's desire to R...

My WH was totally uncooperative with the above demands..I know I will have a fight on my hands in divorce proceedings..My WH will want to take me to the cleaners..I won't be able to tolerate being taken to the cleaners financially..I don't have enough resources and support as of yet..So I have retreated in my battle for D until I have a good sound plan for it.. I don't want to ruin my own financial future even though I want peace and a place of my own..I am in the 60+ age group..We are in an in house separation for the moment..Until I get the courage and strength to take the dive of D and let the chips fall as they may...

I know baby steps are needed in dealing with infidelity or divorce fallout..But it is easier to make the baby steps to deal with infidelity and divorce fallout when one's basic needs in life are met...Food..Shelter..Rest.. Time....Time to one's self for fun/

friends, distraction...I can't help but thinking that the older or less healthy one gets, the more important that these needs get met, lol..

Bottom Line:

You will need to determine for yourself your WW's remorse vs being sorry she was caught..Many WS beg to come back home because they don't want their lives upset..Nothing to do with true love for the betrayed spouse as a person..

Most of the risk of R should be on your WW's shoulders..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 6:42 PM, April 22nd (Wednesday)]

I would take her up on her offer.

Go to the counselor with her.

Hear the counselor out.

Get the passwords and read the messages.

Without your wife present.

But if she says it is as bad as she thinks it is then believe her.

Be prepared for it. And keep your anger under control.

Have a friend or family member present that can look out for you.