SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Personally, and hacking aside, I wouldn't trust the advice of the lawyer he spoke to for two reasons.

1) The lawyer essentially curbed him and the consult did not go well. Regardless of whether that attorney was right or not, DoneGone needs an attorney who will advocate on his behalf, not one who will light him up and then give him a stiff arm, whether right or wrong.

2) The attorney then referred him to another business associate that he may refer people to and who may see eye to eye with him.

I am not saying that the first attorney was wrong although oddly enough I read the post of DoneGone to a very good divorce attorney I know in my state ( a very good friend of mine with 20 years of experience) and that attorney disagreed with the first attorney's assessment based on limited facts provided in this thread.

If DoneGone wants to figure this out, I feel he needs to get another consult with another attorney and if he's told the same thing, then he has it and he has tough decisions to make.

However, it is my opinion that, because of the shock of the legal consults, and the betrayed spouse 'fog' that he has been in, I feel he's locked in a state of limbo with a wayward and I do know that is no way to live.

He needs to see another attorney and then make tough decisions or find a way to cope with being in a one way open marriage.

Hobbes has a good idea, lock the computer away in a safe place with a safe receipt and don't give it back and once he finds an attorney who will advocate on his behalf, figure out what to do with it legally then. Not opening it may be wise advice or if he does, he better destroy it.

In the end this man deserves to know what he is facing. Even moreso, he needs to make some tough decisions based on limited information. Nononsense might be right in that it may not be necessary if DoneGone wants to pull the plug but he can't rugsweep this thing either

[This message edited by Western at 12:26 PM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

Perhaps tell her give me your passwords and written permission to view your cell and laptop or we are done discussing anything further. Without that information I will proceed with D. I will not continue being in the dark on this. You know what I need and what I have requested, so get with the program or step away. Your choice.

DoneGone,

I‘m going to be very frank here. This might even be a 2x4… No… let’s call a cow a cow – this IS a 2x4.

You state you have anger issues…. DoneGone – I want to see you angry! I WANT to see a reaction! Just remember; I don’t have to post here and I have NEVER posted with the intent of hurting or harming a member. I’m hoping this post sort of jolts you out of where you are right now. Sort of pulls your head out of your @ss…

I see a lot of shouting, posturing and pouting but NO ACTION.

Honestly…. Its 10 pages of answers and replies and for all I see you are more or less in exactly the same situation on page 1 as on page 10. I see you grab each and every excuse as an excuse to do nothing.

OK – Let’s get the frigging computer and phone out of the way:

For a couple of hundred dollars you can have the disk cloned and the password cracked. Easy. Leaves you with an external USB drive with her files. No traces of pampering, no legal consequences UNLESS you are foolish enough to flaunt the fact you got the info or even dumber by trying to use any of that info in court. That’s it. The “big problem” that’s been dragging out for 10 pages of posts over!

For less than 40 bucks you can buy software that promises to guide you through cracking the passwords. You could easily get that, run it on the computer and if it leaves traces then simply tell her that in a fit of rage you threw the damned thing into a lake. Might owe her a computer, might get a couple of hundred bucks less when and if assets are divided BUT losing a computer is NOT illegal…

No computer -> no direct reference or usage of what you find = no proof of breach of privacy.

That’s the SECOND suggestion for how to spare us 10 more pages on what to do with the computer…

Let me guess your response: Don’t have the money, fear the legal consequences…

It’s already been pointed to you repeatedly that IF your wife knows discovering more is an unequivocal dealbreaker for you then she WON’T freely or willingly give you more info.

So if there isn’t any more and there isn’t any further info on the computer then why is she so reluctant to open it for you?

Isn’t it clear?

Those that have nothing to hide hide nothing.

Does it have to be painted in letters ten feet tall? Posted on a billboard so you see it?

It’s because she’s HIDING something. And that something is something she thinks will make you stand by your unequivocal dealbreaker threat.

Look – If you were pointing a gun at someone and demanded to know their favorite color and also told them that if it was blue you would shoot them then do you expect them to answer “blue”? I would be screaming pink just to be safe. Just like your wife is. She KNOWS there is something on that computer that will drive you past your stated point of no return. So if she’s refusing to open up… simply ASSUME the worst and move on. File. Divorce.

I think your problem might be you fear getting confirmation of what you already know…

There are few things more pathetic than swinging an ultimatum and then not following it through, only to swing it again. Sort of “If you do this again I will leave you – and NOW I REALLY MEAN IT”. It’s actually very common. Most of us here on SI would confirm that pre-d-day we all thought infidelity was a dealbreaker. Yet the majority strives to reconcile…

Gently… Really reconsider your dealbreaker… Rather than tell your wife that if you discover more then you will file then tell her that a) Reconciliation can ONLY be done from a basis of truth, b) Reconciliation starts with commitment. Tell her that you are willing to commit to R IF you get the truth – including the content of her emails. Tell her that once you have that you will give 30 days before you decide your next step. That’s the best you can offer – otherwise all dialogue will be about separation and divorce. AND THEN FOLLOW IT TRHOUGH.

Oh… yeah…. Forgot you are also semi-hiding behind the “I’ll get financially screwed if I divorce”…

About whatever info you might find on that computer…

Chances are infidelity does not factor in any major way in divorce in your state. Blatant and extended infidelity can sometimes factor in alimony decisions but it’s extremely rare and an insignificant factor. So you don’t need ANYTHING off that computer to facilitate divorce. It’s only needed to decide whether to file or not. NOTHING you find on there can or will be used in court.

If you were dumb enough to pull out prints of e-mails or other info that can only come from the computer… well… that’s another story altogether. But what do you hope to gain from the content of her computer regarding court and divorce? Plus you state you need to know the extent of the affair to decide whether to reconcile or not… So get the info, decide to divorce (or reconcile) and then that’s it. You don’t have to tell her what tipped the balance. You don’t run at her and scream “I’m filing because on XXX day you told him he was the love of your life” – you simply file if the info tips you that way. Don’t have to give her any reason – her affair is reason enough.

OK – if your WW attorney was smart he might ask if you cracked her computer, sort of like in an attempt to establish your anger issues and control issues, but WHY should this go to a drawn-out, extended court-case? Most divorces are only confirmed before a judge, the negotiations and hard work is done between the two attorneys. It’s only where you can’t agree that a judge’s intervention is required.

Do you have major assets? A company that needs to be valued, extensive stocks or bonds? Do you need present-value and future-value evaluations? It won’t be custody, with kids at the age yours are. Chances are the spousal support is clearly defined in a preset formula…

Anything preventing your wife from getting a job? Isn’t the house too big for the family once the kids move out?

Can’t afford to divorce? Well… then settle for living in a marriage totally bereft of trust. You could separate and live independent of each other. You can move into the basement (or ship her there). You can tell her to move in with OM. You can finalize the formality of divorce later…

OR you could look realistically at divorce. It becomes expensive when people spend $$$$ arguing over $. When your two attorneys spend three hours at $200 each per hour quarreling over a $50 vase. Like it or not your wife is entitled to the financial value of about half your joint assets, and you are entitled to the rest. I’m guessing that in most cases the price of divorce goes up arguing over a 3 to 5% split there.

Heck… You two could probably sit down after a couple of months of nerve-calming and hammer out the basics… Sell the house, get rid of car-loans, and change assets into money… Leave the finalization and the paperwork to a mediator.

Child support? OF COURSE! No divorce changes the fact they are your kids. But at their age it won’t be significant nor for a long period. Child support is money for the kids – NOT their mom.

See my tagline? I truly believe that quote. The only person capable of breaching the Mexican standoff you are dealing with is YOU. If we can expect 10 more pages of comments about the computer, how she refuses to tell you the truth and how you will get screwed by divorce… then it’s simply because YOU want to remain in this limbo.

Ps. It's now 11 pages of the same...

http://www.rbs2.com/dprivacy.pdf

https://www.rosen.com/childcustody/carticles/think-twice-snoop-cell-phone-spyware/

Two interesting readings.

VARS are illegal in many jurisdictions but many betrayed spouses still use them but just to verify and not to use as evidence. Effective. When you are betrayed, sometimes risks are worth it to you, sometimes not. Then many spouses who find that this was done to them won't criminally charge anyway or sue because they will damage themselves in the process. So IMO it's a mixed bag. Not urging you at this point one way or another but legalities aren't always 100% of the equation

I would like to think that if she's not transparent, and you can't get her to come clean, how can you go forward anyway ? And if you live in a no-fault state, does it matter ?

My question DoneGone is what is your gameplan now ????

I agree completely with Bigger. Excellent post again by him. Your inaction leaves you petrified. What is your gameplan ?

[This message edited by Western at 12:52 PM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

Done Gone

BIGGER just went through EVERY point possible.

Either get the computer to a pro, crack it yourself, or give the fucking thing back to her.

The most pertinEnt point is YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT IS ON IT IS GOING TO PROVE SHE HAS BEEN BANGING HER BRAINS OUT. there is absolutely no other reason for her to be so determined to not let you see it. She is playing you and once you walk in to MC she will change her mind and you will be in the same spot and will have spent more money than a computer pro would charge.

If you are done, BE DONE. And if you are not done, you are in for trouble because she will have defied you, not shown it to you, and you will still be there.

the scoreboard will then by

WW 1

DG 0

Take one of the options BIGGER just gave you and do it.

Donegone:

Just to add one more perspective from an attorney (caveat, I'm a trial attorney, not family law)

I'd tell any client that I was advising the same thing you were told. Its the careful at all costs advice that I'm supposed to give.

And if I had a computer and a phone that my wife said would break me to read, I'd do it that day, with or without her permission. In fact, I did. ETA: I suspect the family law attorneys would do the same as me faced with similar circumstances.

also, "What Bigger said."

[This message edited by Didact at 2:41 PM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

DoneGone, great thoughts from Didact

It may not seem to be the case, however, I have been moving along according to the advice I have received here, and I thank you guys for that. Indeed, I have been here for eleven pages, however, I have not exactly been treading water. I did not have consult with attorneys until the ninth and thirteenth. Since then I have had a 'meaningful' conversation with OM, told OMW what I know, moved out of the house and gone 180.

Concerning the passwords; I received sobering legal advice and decided to proceed with caution. Money is not an issue concerning computer tech, lie detector or divorce. The issue at present is my extreme anger. I did not see my anger as a hindrance. Quite the contrary, I saw anger as a friend that would empower me to get through this and give me the strength and courage I would need in order to make all the tough decisions. My wife uses my anger as an excuse not to give me her passwords.

Leaving my wife, despite what she did, has been the single most excruciating thing I have ever done in my life. Going 180 has been torturous.

I took your advice just to see if I could shake things up a bit. You have said it was ok to post portions of her texts or emails. I emailed her a few minutes ago to either give me passwords to computer and cell or she would be receiving divorce papers.

Here is WW's response

"Honey, I was so glad to hear from you, even if it was about divorcing me. The onslaught of your feelings nearly overwhelmed me but I know my pain is nothing compared to what you are enduring. I do not want a divorce. A divorce is the last thing in this world that I want, but, I cannot choose between divorcing and giving you my passwords because there is a third element involved, your anger. If you read my horrible emails before you get counseling, something very ugly is going to happen. I just know it. I take full responsibility for this whole mess but I cannot stand the thought of you getting into more trouble because of my ridiculous stupidity. I have caused you enough pain already. I know with all my heart that if you read the emails in your present state that something bad is going to happen. Not to me, I have accepted the fact that you are probably done here. My concern is for you. This is why I am begging you to get counseling before reading the horrible stuff I wrote. I love you with all my heart and I will wait forever. I will do anything you ask me to do. Please give me opportunity to talk to you for a few moments. Please."

I sent her a text back stating I am on longer her concern, just give up the passwords.

Just received this response:

"I know you think I made a fool of you, but honey, I made a fool of myself. Not only that, I degraded myself. I want to give you the passwords and I have every intention of doing so. Any hopes I had on saving our marriage are evaporating quickly. I am asking you to go to counseling, with me or without me, before you read the garbage I wrote to (OM). I know you do not believe a word I say but I am done lying to you and I no longer wish to evade the issue. I am afraid for you; at what you might do once you have the emails. You can scream at me until I am deaf, I deserve it. I deserve all the wrath you choose to pour out on me. What I have done sickens me to the core and I have no right to hope our marriage can survive this emotional storm. So, I am not thinking about me or our marriage right now, I am thinking about you. I am willing to lose you rather than be the cause of you getting into serious trouble."

Western

My question DoneGone is what is your gameplan now ????

My gameplan has not changed. I am willing to wait a little longer to see if she will supply passwords.

[This message edited by DoneGone at 6:33 PM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

My gameplan has not changed. I am willing to wait a little longer to see if she will supply passwords.

Apparently you have anger issues. And that worries her. If you do not get your anger issues under control, just divorce her.

You have a right to be mad, but there is a difference between anger issues and being mad as hell, a big difference.

I do not see you acting rationally when you see her emails. Anger can be your friend when turned to motivation versus depression, but it sounds like you are known for anger issues.

She caused this, but you should seek an IC to deal with the anger issues and then in front of the IC, have her give you the emails. In front of a professional.

Bigger really laid it out perfectly, and I am so glad to hear you are moving forward a bit.

I have to say Donegone - she keeps mentioning (and you have mentioned) this 'horrible temper'... She expresses this concern that basically states she feels your temper will land you in jail, hospital, or morgue if you read her emails... Yet in your posts I just don't see it. I see tremendous pain and loss, which I understand. But I don't get the sense you are thinking about anything disastrous...

You have seemed to accept there was an affair. You were able to implement the 180. You haven't indicated any drastic thoughts.

Do YOU feel you are a risk to harm yourself, or someone else? Do you have any history that would indicate you are at risk for this type of behaviour?

I ask because her responses seem SO concerned about your anger. It is either further attempts to manipulate and control you or there is a reason she is so extremely concerned about your reaction...

I recall getting a similar response a couple times in my nightmare - "I can't tell you because it will hurt you too bad" "I am scared for you" etc... When I was seeking answers and she said this, I just remained calm, looked her in the eye, and said "I am fine. I am calm. I won't do anything rash. Just please answer the question."

It's your call of course - so if you want to give her more time, and not move on that issue - so be it.

Done Gone

The reason this is bull shit is because IF she would just TELL you the truth herself of what she did maybe you would not care what is in the e mails. If she is so worried about you hurting OM and not her , all she has to do is tell you the truth herself

But of course she will not do that .

You know yourself better than anyone.

Don't wind up in jail over her. Just file for divorce and let her spend her money suing you in a law suit she has very little chance of winning.

If it was that easy to sue over privacy of jointly owned marital property , no one would back their spouses computer .

I have not read one story on here of that happening

All I can say is: Wow, those must be SOME e-mails!

Yeah, she's worried for YOU, DG. Not got a thought in her head for herself. So high-minded. (Rolls eyes. ) So transparent. Manipulate much, DoneGone's WW?

yeah..... I agree with Lynn. looks like bullshit to me.

Honestly, I think I'd respond with "OK. I guess you made your decision. I'll take care of the rest. I wish you happiness. Please don't contact me anymore."

And then i'd file. And then I'd tell the kids why we're getting divorced. And then I'd move on with my life.

I bet if you actually did file for divorce your WW would suddenly change her tune. But really... if you file for divorce, don't do it to get a reaction out of her. Do it because you've decided you don't want to put up with her nonsense anymore.

In any event, I know for certain that I wouldn't be stuck in a Mexican standoff. I would take her answer and run with it.

best of luck.

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:44 PM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

Please read this lawyers website...

http://cordellcordell.com/

She is scared you are gonna kill posom. She is still protecting her lover boy.

Cordell and Cordell is a good firm. I know an attorney there who is very reputable

I think you are doing the right thing by following your attorney's response for one over riding reason: either she is going to give you the passwords or you are going to divorce her.

Either way she tells you what she values.

Is there any chance she has seen a lawyer? Because her response sounds like something a lawyer would suggest. It is crafted pretty carefully. DO NOT RESPOND BY ACCEPTING HER ASSERTION IN EMAIL THAT YOU HAVE AN ANGER ISSUE. This might become an issue in the divorce. In fact, I would reject the assertion since silence on this issue could be taken as admission that you have an anger issue (though honestly this is a stretch)

Alternatively it reads as though she is protecting OM. Let's assume the worst: that the emails include statements from both parties that are disrespectful to you in the extreme. If this is true she really is just trying to keep you from exposing the OM.

My suggestion is pretty straight forward:

1. File.

2. Make clear that disclosure of the passwords is a condition precedent for any discussion of reconciliation.

I think you are handling this correctly.

"Not to me, I have accepted the fact that you are probably done here."

Acronym for "As far as I'm is concerned, you're gone, so there is no point in giving you those passwords."

"I am afraid for you; at what you might do once you have the emails."

Acronym for "Hey honey, it's all your fault. I would give you those passwords but you have such anger problems, you leave me no choice."

"So, I am not thinking about me or our marriage right now, I am thinking about you. I am willing to lose you rather than be the cause of you getting into serious trouble."

Acronym for "Those damn emails are so bad, I would rather divorce you than know that you're now aware of all the screwing I have done behind your back."

I have been following your thread from the beginning and I have suspected all along that the affair between WW and OM had been going on long before you met the two of them at the restaurant on the other side of town. (You said you never went there and she probably knew it, so that is where she was willing to meet OM).

I bet the stuff on the laptop and on the cell phone is so juicy, it would make your hair stand up. As a matter of fact, once the divorce is completed, you should publish those emails. Boy! I'd pay a lot of money to read that stuff.

How about texting her this.

"I already know you were in an emotional affair with this POS.

I can guess all the loving and sentimental bullshit you two must have said to each other already.

What your reluctance to give me the passwords is telling me right now is that there are things that have gone on that are discussed in those communications that you have not felt obligated to tell me, despite how much you say you want to save the marriage.

So what the hell is in those e-mails and texts that is so terrible (and remember I ALREADY know there will be lots of disgusting love words and gushing between you two)that you would rather immediately receive papers than have me see them?

Since you are so reluctant on this, I can only assume the WORST.

You say you want to save the M...but what you are doing here is ACTIVELY destroying any chance of saving it."

Perfect stalling tactic and blameshift.

Honey get help with your anger and you can read the emails (the worst of which have probably been deleted)

You'll probably find after all that, the emails weren't even that bad, maybe a few I love you and let's get together etc, thereby making it seem what she wrote really wasn't too bad and come out looking alright. (In her head)

She says she will do "anything" yet still isn't. She's hedging her bets to string this out as long as possible. Ride the wave until the anger subsides.

She's still manipulating the situation. There can be no R.