SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Igotthis

But I do not believe this is about the Passwords any more

You are correct, it is about my daughters.

you have the ability to extract the information

I may end up needing to do this, and I will if it comes to that.

My IT guy was here in my office yesterday updated 3 computers we had purchased from him and I asked him. He said "easy," so I imagine the "passwords" are just a pretext for other reasons.

Easy for an IT guy, not for me. Believe me, I know. I spent countless hours trying to guess password and get in some other way.

You want to lash out at her, and want her to suffer,

Yes, the first two weeks after DD I was a maniac. Once I moved out, that stopped.

but you are afraid of letting go, hence your hesitance to extract said information....

I do not know why it is difficult to understand that I made an agreement with my family that I would receive counseling with WW before opening the devices. I have never,

never knowingly lied to them. This entire situation is filthy enough without me getting

into the sewer also. I'm not a complete idiot. I know they used password as a means to get me in MC with WW. I gave this to my daughters. My gift. This is what they wanted. I will give it to them.

Because you know deep down inside once you acknowledge it or seen it, you are forced into having to make a decision. Your wavering on either D or R

I have assured WW of divorce from word go and have never given her indication of anything different. Quite the opposite. I have let her know there is no way in hell I will remain married to her.

That is why you are dragging it out, you are also trying to use the venue of the therapist as life line to get some shots at her.

I can see why you say that. I don't know exactly why I did what I did last Wednesday, but I did better in MC today.

you know the passwords is a non-issue at this point, as you could have already, gotten everything you need and then some,

But why? I can afford to wait. My girls are not seeing the mad man their mom described to them. Instead they are seeing a patient, reasonable, rational person. The emotional explosion and resultant storm I have experienced is not characteristic for me. When all is said and done, I desire their respect.

Whether I get all WW's communications with OM or none will carry the same message to my kids.

They are first and foremost. At this point, nothing else even matters. Until WW introduced them into this dilemma, it was all about me.

but for the time being you want to hold this over her.

I do want her to be sorry and unhappy, especially for the time being. I would really feel like shit if she was happy and normal as if nothing happened. What the fuck? And I am sure she IS suffering, but not from anything I have done. She is suffering the results of her own behavior and the only way she can be made to feel better is by me cutting off my balls and crawling home. No, she is going to have to find her own way through this, even as I.

you will play along because you can't make a decision that feels so final

I will not make a decision that is in direct opposition to what I promised my girls.

You are damaging your self my friend

Yes I am.

get the information or don't but you and I both know you don't really want to..

You're right.

you want revenge

If I wanted revenge, I could have revenge. I could have broke into her devices and shared all the sordid details with daughters, family and friends. I give her much more money than necessary and much more than the courts will order. I have had opportunities with other women. Friend, my friends and some of her friends have asked me on occasion what is going on. I let them know it is a family thing. Yes, I could have revenge if I were made that way.

I imagine all types of revenge scenarios. They are sad and do not say much about my state of mind.

redsox13

A more charitable explanation: she is trying everything she can think of to win you back. So time, she thinks, is her ally. With it she can show you how she feels.

Her children are her ally - a reminder of the connection you share.

Because she is desperate. That desperation is in some ways revealing.

But in her desperation she fails to provide the one pre-requisite for reconciliation.

I appreciate that and agree. I cannot tell you what a gut wrenching, soul killing process this is. But perhaps you know. I also feel deeply sad and horrible for my wife. In the same way she is fighting for our marriage, so are my daughters.

allatsea

Your WW is running rings around you and her IC is colluding with her

. She has everything to save, I have nothing left to lose.

convert

I agree with some of the others here that have said she probably won't give the passwords even after the 3 rd session.

After third session, all bets are off. It's going to be hair, teeth and eyes all over the place.

DG, how was the MC session today?

I get this totally.

It's about Done Gone's daughters.

He'd have been done gone already if wife had not selfishly dragged them into it.

Parental love knows no bounds....even if it means self sacrifice. He has to have a relationship with them after all this or he has truly lost it all.

I hope they know what a wonderful father they have.

((()))

Very good posts DG. You have really thought this through and have gotten control over your emotions for the moment.

Don't you think you have to believe your wife when she warns about what you are going to discover? It is going to be really horrible. Are you afraid that you are going to go from loving but rejecting her to disliking her permanently?

If you don't read the messages and learn the details, which probably include confirmation of physical infidelity, wouldn't it be easier to just be indifferent towards your wife and that would better for your daughters?

I think that after all is said and done, when you somehow one way or another have shown you were correct and your wife was not truthful, your daughters still are going to want you to reconcile with their mom. As long as the affair is completely finished and she is completely apologizing, your daughters are going to push you to give it a shot with your wife. Your daughters I think will understand why your wife desperately tried to save the marriage (though I think they also will be disgusted by what she did to kill the marriage, too).

The thing about hair, teeth, and eyes I hope is not what it sounds like. It sounds completely wrong for you. That is not what the daughters will want, and you are a better person than that. If your wife refuses to give passwords, if your wife deletes the messages, then your daughters realize the truth, then you "win (?)," you finish off this divorce as amicable as you can and move on. Wife was truly despicable, not just because of the affair but because how much she went out of her way to gaslight you so bad, telling you that YOU were crazy, Othello Syndrome, delusional jealousy, and needed psychiatric attention - BUT it's over now and for the sake of your daughters I think you should be humble and gracious in "victory (?)."

I do have a question, though - does your wife still stick with the "first-time" she met in a "coincidence" at the fast food restaurant when you just happened to see them together?

Also, do your daughters know about the whole "Othello Syndrome" situation about the time their mom tried to make their dad go into a straitjacket in the psych ward for delusional jealousy? Does wife admit to having done that?

@Azteca Thanks for asking. MC yesterday was nothing to write home about, however, no drama as last week. Last week we discussed my anger, this week we discussed the possibility of me losing my WW if I do not wake up.

LongWalk

Don't you think you have to believe your wife when she warns about what you are going to discover? It is going to be really horrible. Are you afraid that you are going to go from loving but rejecting her to disliking her permanently?

I have never imagined anything different since DD. That is the only reason I have been able to stay away from my wife. Disliking her permanently would be my best option if I had a choice. Her humility and repentance however is making that difficult. I will enclose email I received this morning from her. I think you will see what I mean.

wk55hn

I think that after all is said and done, when you somehow one way or another have shown you were correct and your wife was not truthful, your daughters still are going to want you to reconcile with their mom

If EA I would agree with you. If it is PA to the extent that I suspect, I do not believe they will advocate reconciliation.

The thing about hair, teeth, and eyes I hope is not what it sounds like. It sounds completely wrong for you.

Really, I just meant the shit would hit the fan.

I do have a question, though - does your wife still stick with the "first-time" she met in a "coincidence" at the fast food restaurant when you just happened to see them together?

The only thing I have asked her for is the information in her devices. I know it is there because of behavior leading up to DD.

Also, do your daughters know about the whole "Othello Syndrome" situation about the time their mom tried to make their dad go into a straitjacket in the psych ward for delusional jealousy? Does wife admit to having done that?

I do not know what WW has shared with daughters and I have not bad mouthed her to them.

Last week we discussed my anger, this week we discussed the possibility of me losing my WW if I do not wake up.

Just wondering if you brought up the IC/MC thing? Anyway, sounds like they have a goal and it doesn't really matter what you say or do. Day one anger, Day two losing WW, Day three? probably about how you do not need the passwords with a little of losing your WW thrown in. Whatever....

This will be their last shot. You HAVE to keep your cool. For all we know they plan to get you so Angry that the counselor can pink slip you straight to the Hospital. This is it... You have to stay calm for one hour. Take a deep breath, count to ten. If you lose your cool at this last appointment you wife, the counselor and your girls will use it against you.

"BS threw an ashtray across the room. I'm in fear for my life if I give him my passwords and he misinterprets something he reads...He might try to kill me." Might be far fetch but you get how your temper can easily play into her getting more support and being the victim longer...

Things they are saying are not fair, or true and might be designed to make you lose it.

But you chose this route for getting the passwords and information about the A... you will need to grin a bare if for one more session.

this week we discussed the possibility of me losing my WW if I do not wake up.

WTF?????

Maybe I am taking it right as I believe she is losing you, or already has, not the opposite.

Are you talking about what will happen when D takes place, like her getting into another relation, maybe getting married in the long run??

Well, IMO she already was in another relation just didn't have the kindness to inform you.

DG - part of my story was seeing a series of emails - that were absolutely awful. The worst were references to me - which were belittling. and humiliating.

The lies in them were beyond belief. There is no question that there was a fantasy component in them. I don't my think wife ever aligned the fantasy of the affair with reality. It was like she was writing a work of fiction, or acting in some movie. She had sex one time.

When the fantasy ended it was like a switch was turned. She once again became the mother of my children. This created its own problem - in time I learned that I was literally not talking to the same person who wrote the emails.

It was a long road back from those emails.

I understand you are only going to the MC to get access to the emails, and that in turn is so you can explain your decision to divorce your wife. I think that makes perfect sense - your children need to understand you were not to blame in the divorce.

But if you are going to MC, I would make it clear in the last MC that the starting place should be the why behind her affair, and why you should believe it won't happen again. In our MC we began with my wife saying "I was just stupid", but that isn't an explanation and the has MC had us focus on that. We discussed little else.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 8:36 AM, May 7th (Thursday)]

If I wanted revenge, I could have revenge. I could have broke into her devices and shared all the sordid details with daughters, family and friends. I give her much more money than necessary and much more than the courts will order. I have had opportunities with other women. Friend, my friends and some of her friends have asked me on occasion what is going on. I let them know it is a family thing. Yes, I could have revenge if I were made that way.

This is a mistake. The court is going to look at what you've been paying her during the separation and make you continue paying that amount, the logic being if you thought it was fair to pay her that amount during the separation it's going to be fair to pay her that amount during the divorce. Start paying her now what you want it to be in the future.

redsox13

part of my story was seeing a series of emails - that were absolutely awful. The worst were references to me - which were belittling. and humiliating.

I have nightmares when I think about what she might have said about me. I dread this most of all. It does not even make sense to me.

It was a long road back from those emails.

I totally admire and even envy your ability to allow your love to overcome her weakness. I honestly wish I had it in me but every time I even think about forgiveness I get angry.

I think that makes perfect sense - your children need to understand you were not to blame in the divorce.

Having access to the full extent of her infidelity will accomplish two things for me. As you said, my kids will know it was not me. It is important to me that they never entertain the thought that their dad waited until they were off to college and then jumped on some excuse to leave the marriage. The information is also important in the sense that it can used as a catalyst to keep me moving in the direction I need to go.

MC is being partial and is trying to lead you to:

1) Lose your nerve, breakdown and beg your wife for another chance (really sick)

2) Make you lose control and do something really stupid, or at least from their twisted interpretation. In this case why don’t you record the last MC meeting? See if you can record this with your mobile.

IMO and in order to prevent any form of abuse, inform them that you are going to record the meeting (If in your State/Country don’t need their permission to be recorded, just do it as they can refuse to continue the meeting).

Even better, ask them upfront if they are OK with you recording it. If they deny for not good reason this will prove that the MC is not for saving your marriage but saving your wife putting you down. If they have nothing to hide they will agree.

IMO, next MC meeting will be very stressful so be prepared and DON’T LOSE IT!!!!

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 9:08 AM, May 7th (Thursday)]

Do you want to see your wife go to work and earn a living now that your daughters have gone off to school?

How would you feel if your wife said that she wants to make the divorce more than fair to you financially?

Is your wife wearing a hair shirt? Does that make her desirable?

Donegone, sending some strength man.

Mrhealed

Maybe I am taking it right as I believe she is losing you, or already has, not the opposite. Are you talking about what will happen when D takes place, like her getting into another relation, maybe getting married in the long run??

MC began by saying, and I quote, "Let’s lay the groundwork and agree that your wife was behaving borderline unethically. Let’s say it crossed the line and became a more-than-friends thing.

Then she asked me to consider…if, if I was this torn up about what hasn't even happened yet in a casual, undefined more-than-friends thing ; how would I feel if she actually developed feelings for some other man? She said I was going to feel WAY worse later and that is exactly what could happen if I continue to allow this situation to escalate. She let me know that the fastest way to destroy my relationship with WW was to focus on what's wrong with her. Dwelling on her faults is the opposite of what I did when I fell in love."

I did not know what she just said. It's like my brain froze. I said, wait a sec, say that again. She said that "trial separations almost always lead to divorce." The longer we stayed separated, the more we would grow apart and my wife could give up hope and move on. It happens all the time. She said a separation is only encouraging this end result and is that the end result I am anticipating? She said I could most definitely end up standing on the sidelines feeling like a piece of crap. And I would have to bear the brunt of the blame because WW is doing her part to fix this. It seemed to me that somehow, she was blaming me for this whole mess. She strongly encouraged me to take her advice before things escalate and WW truly begans to despise me.

Well, IMO she already was in another relation just didn't have the kindness to inform you.

Damn, I wish I had thought of that.

MC's question is a good one. The honest answer is that you will only feel bad about her moving on to someone else if you care for her. If you are indifferent, there won't be much pain. Separation is conducive to emotional disconnection.

If your wife had wanted to end the separation, she would have offered up the passwords if you came home. She could have volunteered to be ready 24/7 to grovel, explain, have angry sex, etc.

MC began by saying, and I quote, "Let’s lay the groundwork and agree that your wife was behaving borderline unethically. Let’s say it crossed the line and became a more-than-friends thing.

Then she asked me to consider…if, if I was this torn up about what hasn't even happened yet in a casual, undefined more-than-friends thing ; how would I feel if she actually developed feelings for some other man? She said I was going to feel WAY worse later and that is exactly what could happen if I continue to allow this situation to escalate. She let me know that the fastest way to destroy my relationship with WW was to focus on what's wrong with her. Dwelling on her faults is the opposite of what I did when I fell in love."

Translation:

Become more than friends = MC is trying to minimize the Affair, don’t let her do it!!!!!

if I was this torn up about what hasn't even happened yet in a casual, undefined more-than-friends thing = MC wants you to believe everything a proven lier (your WW) has told you before you can read the texts.

; how would I feel if she actually developed feelings for some other man? = She already developed feelings for OM, if MC doesn’t believe it why don’t your WW shows the text to prove it? As WW refuses to let you know what happened or didn’t happened this is point less.

She let me know that the fastest way to destroy my relationship with WW was to focus on what's wrong with her.= Very manipulative to make you feel like you are doing something you are not, You are not focusing on what’s wrong with her, you are focusing on what she has done, as pointed out she is the love of your life who made a mistake and then a lot of informed decisions over her marriage without letting you know (like hotel meeting, this was not a mistake, it was planned, while you were away, with time and executed)BTW she already destroy the relationship you didn’t, she did it all by her self. (this point should be asked to your wife if you were trying to R)

Dwelling on her faults is the opposite of what I did when I fell in love = Totally right, but again is not that you doesn’t love her is about what she has done.

." The longer we stayed separated, the more we would grow apart and my wife could give up hope and move on. It happens all the time. She said a separation is only encouraging this end result and is that the end result I am anticipating?

this is the only thing that MC is right, it is called detach and is copping your pain right now.

She said I could most definitely end up standing on the sidelines feeling like a piece of crap.

Let her know that you are feeling like crap already and you didn’t ask for it. Fear of end up alone is not enough IMO to be with someone capable of doing what she has done. It is your call any way but is not a good reason to stay. As you probably already know there take a lot of time to detach and to date again, if ever. But that’s not on you, this is not your fault.

And I would have to bear the brunt of the blame because WW is doing her part to fix this.

NO WAY, the guilt, and everybody knows it, is 100% on your WW

MC is acting like she is getting a bonus or something if she gets you on R even lying… Let her know the next meeting when you have your PS that she is very lousy therapist, at least for MC.

Well in a nutshell, MC wants you to eat, and enjoy, the shit sandwich your WW made for you and find it delicious.