SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Jobin,

Without derailing DG's thread too much, a quick explanation.

When both android and iPhone phones 'delete' texts they actually keep them but get, simplifying this some, a check box next to them in the database. This check box hides the messages as 'deleted' but the delete part happens by the chexkbox telling the phone that it can delete those texts when it needs space.

So say you have a 64gb iPhone and don't download much media and take thousands of pictures chances are those texts could be there for a very very long time.

Now to why you're getting different results - these databases store information in slightly different formats, particularly among Android variants. Simply, different developers did better or more thorough jobs on some versions than others. There are a ton.

By far if your cheating spouse has an iPhone, try to make up a dumb reason to plug the phone into a PC or Mac to take a backup. Say you're upgrading OSes or whatever and you heard there was a bug that could erase all contacts or whatever your spouse is sensitive too. This is a white lie compared to him or her putting foreign genitials amongst theirs, so don't lose any sleep over it and understand you know them best and can convince them to backup the phone. Once you have this then you don't need to confront them or inconspicuously steal their phone for an hour and you need their lock code.

DG,

If you have decided to divorce why do you need to go to MC?

If you have decided to get divorced why do you need passwords?

Your WW is running rings around you and her IC is colluding with her.

Stop, just stop. Take charge. She is controlling the narrative.

[This message edited by allatsea at 5:47 AM, May 7th (Thursday)]

I agree with some of the others here that have said she probably won't give the passwords even after the 3 rd session.

I'm appalled at your MC. At our very first meeting with ours, she stressed that our "marriage" was the client -- neither of us. She said that she would speak with us individually, but only in equal proportion.

This MC and your WW are ambushing you. Please be very very careful. Very. Careful.

In terms of how to deal with your daughters, in my experience the best way to deal with the type of game that she is playing is to be the bigger person.

I would ask your older daughter if you can have five minutes of her time. Go there and basically say "You know your mother and I are not on firm ground right now. I want to let you know that we're working through this from many angles but the only thing that I know for sure is that I'm sure that I do not think that it's fair - nor do I feel comfortable - involving you in the nitty gritty details of what we're going through. The only thing that I can commit to you is that I'll be 100% honest to you at all times. There is a lot going on beneath the surface which I feel strongly you should not be involved in or be made aware of"

If yo have to, I'd repeat the last sentence as many times as you have to. She'll eventually get the hint.

Also, by going to your older daughter, it will be disseminated to your other two daughters within 8 minutes. You don't want to collect them all up at once because it will look like you're collecting to forces to play her game against her. By meeting one and assuming that she will talk you're achieving the same end goal in a completely non-confrontational way.

john321

you need to control your temper.

I mislead myself into thinking I had my temper under control. The pressure of the MC, being in same room with WW, and actually discussing what she did nudged me over the edge. I was fantasizing a break through and instead had a break down. I know that WW is experiencing her own pain, but I wanted her to experience some of my pain. Not proud moment and now I have another MC this afternoon and behind the eight ball.

Don't forget this is the mother of your children! She did you wrong and you are suffering. Either you stay or go you will have to deal with her. If you do not want to do MC don't do it. Ask your wife for passwords one last time and if you cannot get it then take it to a professional. Do not burn your bridges, you will suffer more at the end. Please, control your temper and good luck to you whatever decision you will make

I always remember WW is the mother of my children. I also remember that I am the father of my children. They will have the truth. There is no way that cannot happen. However, I will deliver the truth in the most empathetic way possible. My heart will break when doing so. This I know.

Everybody, including MC, realized I was there for the passwords. I was not being a hypocrite. I simply wanted to do this the right way. I was not there trying to work through any of this, nor did I want to be fixed. Nor was I there to support or try to fix any of WW’s shortcomings or work on the marriage. I was there to get the passwords. My goal was to appear interested, listen intently and try not to overplay my hand. I just wanted to have an open mind and cooperate to the best of my ability. Maybe something good would come out of it or maybe not, bottom line, I would end up with passwords, hopefully.

I have not discussed my situation with anybody other than you guys because I am always on the verge of an emotional explosion. My eruption in MC office was totally unexpected by all parties concerned, including myself. I am aware that I lost the opportunity to boost my credibility with MC so I just add that to all of my other losses. I had already lost the battle with my thoughts in the waiting room and had the feeling of inevitable and inexorable doom. I imagined they were conspiring against me, strategizing how to manipulate me.

I knew WW had been meeting with MC; I agreed to meet with the both of them; I was not expecting to be sitting in the waiting room while they presumably discussed how they would handle me.

This was not acceptable to me. I agree with MC that I don't automatically get to act nuts just because I'm upset. I understand that I am not exempt or excluded from experiencing the bad things that can happen and you do not see everybody else rolling on the floor having a fit of rage when things do not go exactly their way. I admit that my behavior was unacceptable, destructive and felt good.

My explosion of anger exposed me to a volcano of complex “psychobabble” that left me confused and defiant. But it was a relief getting it off my chest. I haven’t had very many feel good moments lately. I felt good. I felt in control. I felt empowered. I also knew it was an idiot thing for me to do, so, at the end of the day, I felt bad for feeling good. I realize the ‘feel good’ feeing is probably a significant statement concerning my mental and emotional health at the moment; which I will have to work on later.

I would show up at MC, with divorce papers in hand.

Tell her passwords now..or you will have your attorney file those papers.

Oh...and as soon as she gives you the passwords, I'd whip out my phone..and go to every one of those accounts..and make sure the passwords worked...in front of the MC. And..if they do actually work, I'd change the passwords immediately and lock her out of the accounts.

But...the chances that she hasn't deleted everything...are very..very small.

I would show up at MC, with divorce papers in hand.

Tell her passwords now..or you will have your attorney file those papers.

Oh...and as soon as she gives you the passwords, I'd whip out my phone..and go to every one of those accounts..and make sure the passwords worked...in front of the MC. And..if they do actually work, I'd change the passwords immediately and lock her out of the accounts.

But...the chances that she hasn't deleted everything...are very..very small.

Her holding on to the passwords doesn't make any sense if she is trying to reconcile.

Has she read any books on infidelity? Not just friends, surviving an affair, etc...? The common theme is full transparency. You should ask the "MC" if she has read these books. I'm guessing not because she is advocating rug sweeping.

confused615

I would show up at MC, with divorce papers in hand.

Tell her passwords now..or you will have your attorney file those papers.

Oh...and as soon as she gives you the passwords, I'd whip out my phone..and go to every one of those accounts..and make sure the passwords worked...in front of the MC. And..if they do actually work, I'd change the passwords immediately and lock her out of the accounts.

My bearable life these days exist inside the realms of my imagination. I have pictured it in my mind and it is soooo pleasurable. Of course, it would be embarrassing for others to glimpse the crazy scripted conversations that take place between me and WW. Once I am past all of this, I am going to need therapy.

SofaKingWeToddId

The common theme is full transparency. You should ask the "MC" if she has read these books. I'm guessing not because she is advocating rug sweeping.

The only transparency I am seeing is right through the MC. Transparent. Indeed she is advocating rugsweeping. She is also advocating reconciliation. She is not advocating getting my side of the story. It is not even important. "My WW is sorrowful and sad. What do I want of her?"

"I have independently consulted with three additional marriage counselors as part of my own efforts to receive therapy. They universally agree that full and immediate transparency is unquestionably the most critical piece of the reconciliation process to be driven by my wayward spouse. Why are you advocating differently, out of curiosity and so that I can fully understand this process?"

[This message edited by eric1 at 10:50 AM, May 6th (Wednesday)]

Lately, every time I hear about your WW withholding the pass words, I'm starting to see Jack Nicholson screaming at Tom Cruise.

Total non sequitur I know, sorry.

DG,

I am concerned that you are putting all your emotional energy into these passwords. Maybe that's just an impression from your posts, I hope so. The problem is that I think there is a very very small probability that 1) you really get access to those devices and 2) that there is really material left there.

Please consider a therapist of your own. Disengage from the games, protect your children and yourself, and then take the time necessary to decide what you really want going forward.

I know I said I would not post on here any more....But I do not believe this is about the Passwords any more. (if it ever was)

OP you have the ability to extract the information, one of the posters here has offered to help.

My IT guy was here in my office yesterday updated 3 computers we had purchased from him and I asked him. He said "easy," so I imagine the "passwords" are just a pretext for other reasons.

You want to lash out at her, and want her to suffer, but you are afraid of letting go, hence your hesitance to extract said information....Because you know deep down inside once you acknowledge it or seen it, you are forced into having to make a decision. Your wavering on either D or R. (yes I said wavering because if in fact D was your route like you say) because you know the "unknown" is tormenting her. That is why you are dragging it out, you are also trying to use the venue of the therapist as life line to get some shots at her.

Right now, you are both mutually destructive to one another....you know the passwords is a non-issue at this point, as you could have already, gotten everything you need and then some, but for the time being you want to hold this over her.

She won't give them to you, because she see's it as her life line, you will play along because you can't make a decision that feels so final, and because you know it is getting at her.

You are damaging your self my friend, get the information or don't but you and I both know you don't really want to.. You want to drag this out as long as you can so you have the chance to get back at her for all the wrongs she did, you want revenge......

She is hanging over the secrets (PW) to keep you hooked and you are hanging over whether or not you are going to R or D to keep her hooked.

Seek closure, I get it I really do, I wish you the best and hope for your healing, for your health and well being.

You have agreed between you, wife, and kids that there would be six MC sessions, after three of which you will get the passwords and wife's permission AND your wife will not have deleted any messages. Then she agrees to polygraph. THIS is the agreement. I personally believe it is a good chance that wife will either refuse or delete, BUT THAT IS NO MATTER, let her be the one who once again lies and fails to uphold her agreement and promise. YOU KEEP YOUR WORD.

I already know what the messages contain, you are not one of those wishing-on-a-star posters, you seem based in reality and I'm sure you know what you will find in those messages, too.

To me, the importance of the messages (or her going back on her word) is that 1) With message in hand, you can refute wife's lies, 2) Kids can finally take off mom's rose-colored glasses (and maybe dad's overwrought imagination), and 3), you can get the hurtful specific details to put the nail in the coffin of your marriage.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 2:33 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)]

wk55hn

To me, the importance of the messages (or her going back on her word) is that 1) With message in hand, you can refute wife's lies, 2) Kids can finally take off mom's rose-colored glasses (and maybe dad's overwrought imagination), and 3), you can get the hurtful specific details to put the nail in the coffin of your marriage.

Yes. Three things can happen and all of them are acceptable to me. (1) WW can go back on her word, refuse to give me passwords. Meanwhile, I would have kept my word and did the counseling. WW breaks her word, I keep mine. My daughters are not idiots. (2) WW can delete everything on the devices after promising to me, in the presence of my daughters, that nothing had been deleted, nor would be deleted. Again, this would speak volumes to my daughters. (3) The information will be in tact. I will have all the truth; be it EA or PA. I am 100% sure it was PA all the way; and the rest of friends and family, including my daughters will know also. I could say this is a win win situation but that is not the case. Nobody wins. I feel heart sick for my family whom we have raised, loved and nourished with such care.

I did not create this situation. WW used every avenue available to fight for the marriage, except transparency. Transparency would not have saved the marriage but it would have saved us from going through all of this. An unfortunate situation.

What are you gonna do to mentally&emotionally survive the two remaining sessions?

Best wishes

The MC provoked you by being condescending but you allowed it to unleash a torrent of bile. Okay, not your best moment, but you can start the next session of MC with an apology.

You have summed up the situation well, your WW has done everything to fight for your marriage but be transparent. She has admitted that she has not been forthcoming, but only to stop you from suffering a stroke.

How do you plan to go into the computer and phone if you get the passwords? Will you sit at home with her in another room? Will you go out? Will you invite a trusted friend to be with you?

A more charitable explanation: she is trying everything she can think of to win you back. So time, she thinks, is her ally. With it she can show you how she feels.

Her children are her ally - a reminder of the connection you share.

Because she is desperate. That desperation is in some ways revealing.

But in her desperation she fails to provide the one pre-requisite for reconciliation.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 4:13 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)]

you are sure right DG - nobody wins...

I just said to my wife the other night - infidelity is like nuclear war - the only way to win, is not to play!