SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Anyone else pick up on who Jon Snow's parents could be from that episode?

The only part I can recall was Selyse mentioning Ned and a tavern wench or something similar. Did I miss something else?

All I can remember from some of the previous series is Robert Baratheon and mentioning Betsy or some other name and Ned corrected him with Wylia and didn't want to talk about it. The next reference I can recall in the series was when Jon was departing for the wall and asked about his Mom and Ned said we will talk about her when we meet again.

I am not at all happy with last night's ending scene.

Did I miss something else?

I don't think I'm giving away anything here. Especially if you read the books. There are also websites dedicated to this theory as I started to dig a few years back once I read it.

In the opening scenes of the book (and tv show), Robert and Ned visit Lyanna's grave in the crypt beneath Winterfell. On the statue Lyanna is wearing a crown of blue roses (the winter rose) in the book, but not in the tv show. Ned and Robert talk about how they went to war because of Lyanna as she was kidnapped by Rhaeghar Targaryen. In last night's episode barristan Selmy was telling Daenery's some of those stories as well.

In the books, when Daenery's has to go through the Magician's temple, she is shown a series of visions. In one of those visions, she sees her father the Mad King or Rhaegar (I forget which) with a woman who is wearing a crown of blue roses but she doesn't know who this woman is. They did not show this in the show, but there is where I started to suspect who Jon Snow's parents were.

Fact that Lyanna Stark was kidnapped and raped for something like 2 years by the Targaryens. Sansa and Petyr confirmed this last night in the crypt and it's all through the books.

Ned comes back from war with a bastard child. Ned is a man about truth and justice. That is how he lived. Do we think that Ned was really capable of infidelity and came home with his own bastard son? DON'T ANSWER THAT!!! Fact, Robert was having all remaining Targaryen's hunted and killed which is why Danery's and her brother ran and hid in exile. Any Targaryen left was subjected to the Mountain's brutality. So why did Ned claim Jon as his own? He just show's up at Winterfell with this kid? Last time Ned sees Jon, when Jon leaves for the Wall, Ned tells him that his mother is not who he thinks she is and that she was very special and that Ned would tell him more about his mother next time Ned saw him. Which we know didn't happen since Ned was then beheaded.

Elements of all of that ^^^^ were pulled into last night's episode where as all of those clues were spread way out in the books. Not to mention that I think last night the famous line from the Red Witch... "You know nothing Jon Snow" was meant to be much more than an echo of Ygritte.

I am not at all happy with last night's ending scene.

Definitely an intense episode.

A buddy of mine sent me this article today. This is purely based on the show and not the books but also supports the who are Jon Snow's parents theory.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/04/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-parents_n_7204058.html

Very interesting theory. I read about the Tower of Joy this morning where Ned went to save Lyanna and made her a promise before she died. I do not recall the Tower of Joy in the books or the HBO series.

I don't remember hearing about the Tower of Joy

Since we're on the topic of Jon Snow, anyone see Jon Snow on Late Night with Seth Myers? The dinner party skit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabsgCQhpu4

That was great!

I just found the reference to the Tower of Joy. It is in Game of Thrones chapter 39 (page 424). There is more here.

And a quote from GRRM:

You'll need to wait for future books to find out more about the Tower of Joy and what happened there, I fear.

I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal.

Quoted from a question posted by a reader on The Citadel.

Ah. Thanks for those. So another clue that supports that theory. Interesting.

One of the guys that I work with took that theory a bit farther. There are 3 dragons for 3 Targaryens. Daenerys, Jon (if he is one), and I don't want to give the other away for those who haven't read the books (think book 5 Dance with Dragons).

I don't want to give the other away for those who haven't read the books (think book 5 Dance with Dragons).

I can't think of who you might be referring to unless it was one of the characters that was on the boat with Tyrion on the journey down the Rhoyne. I still can't believe they skipped that!

For those who don't want the spoiler, don't use the link below.

MH, look at the Alias names to see who this character is in Dance with Dragons. The supposed 3rd dragon rider.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aegon_Targaryen_(son_of_Rhaegar)

MH, look at the Alias names to see who this character is in Dance with Dragons.

That is who I suspected you were referring to.

I had a theory that Dance with Dragons was going to cover HBO seasons 5 and 6 and the more I watch and read the more I am convinced this is correct. There was an article out yesterday about GRRM wanting to announce the release date for Winds of Winter before airing season 6 possibly next year. That makes it clear that season 6 will have already been produced before publishing the next book.

There is still a lot of story that has not even been introduced from Dance with Dragons and we are practically halfway through the series.

The HBO series is actually starting to bother me now. Too many departures from the book with too many missing plot lines (where is the river cruise with Tyrion) and too many missing characters that are great (Lady Stoneheart??) ... And don't get me started on the Sand Snakes. Granted its only been one scene, but all I could think about when watching that scene was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles ....

all I could think about when watching that scene was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

I believe the scene with the sand snakes was to help set up the plot for what follows in the book. If they would have just followed the book I think it would have been confusing. I won't go further for fear of spoilers.

At this point I have given up on seeing Lady Stoneheart. If they were going to bring her in we would have already seen her. I am beginning to wonder if we will ever see the brotherhood without banners again. We never had closure with the brave companions either.

That makes it clear that season 6 will have already been produced before publishing the next book.

Too many departures from the book with too many missing plot lines (where is the river cruise with Tyrion) and too many missing characters that are great (Lady Stoneheart??) ... And don't get me started on the Sand Snakes.

Agreed. As much as I love the books, I think when I watch the show I'm going to have to depart from the books myself. Just watch the show for what it is. I just don't see how they can make the show as rich as the books. But those missing plot lines are killing me...which if I think about it too much starts to take away from the show...which is still pretty good on it's own. Maybe that's the disadvantage of reading the books.

I was reading up on all of the disappointment out there re Lady Stoneheart. This was confirmation from the director as why they have cut out the Lady Stoneheart plot line

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-why-no-lady-stoneheart

Which really is too bad. Readers were starved for any sort of vengeance and that was our bone.

Man, that sucks about Lady Stoneheart not making it to the series. Such a cool character in the books!

I'm up through episode two so far. Drogon is getting big!!

Might try to shoot for ep3 tonight if I'm not too tired.

Love the Jon Snow/Seth Meyers skit.

I am finally caught up.

I am not at all happy with last night's ending scene.

No freaking doubt! Not cool in the least bit.

The dynamic between Petyr and Sansa is kind of skeeving me out as well. It is interesting how Sansa's character is developing. I can't imagine things are going to be easy for her for the remainder of the season.

I can't imagine things are going to be easy for her for the remainder of the season

Right. I think Jayne Poole was a good indicator.

I'm ready to see how the ending of last weeks episode plays out tomorrow night

I can't imagine things are going to be easy for her for the remainder of the season.

She seemed pleased to hear Roose and Walda's news in response to Ramsey announcing who was giving Sansa away at the wedding. Sansa has really gone through a character transition. Petyr has always had a creepy side. I don't trust that guy at all.

I'm ready to see how the ending of last weeks episode plays out tomorrow night

I was afraid of that outcome. I liked his character a lot and he was suppose to play a big part in Meereen in the future. There isn't another character I can think of that can substitute him in that role.

I was glad to see they brought a couple of elements in from the journey down the Rhoyne. Even though they didn't follow the storyline.

I have to keep reminding myself that they have the challenge of breaking each season into 10 entertaining episodes. It is hard to believe we are already halfway through season 5.

Random thought that has nothing to do with the plots in the show or the books. Is it just me, or does Ramsey Bolton:

Look kind of like Rob Thomas from Matchbox Twenty:

I was glad to see they brought a couple of elements in from the journey down the Rhoyne.

Me too. I would have been a little disappointed if they had left that out all together.

Like you said, MH, hard to believe the season is half over already!

I haven't read the books, and I know the story is somewhat off from them anyway, but will someone PLEASE reassure me that Ramsey will soon suffer a gloriously slow and painful end? Preferably at the hands of Sansa?

I haven't read the books, and I know the story is somewhat off from them anyway, but will someone PLEASE reassure me that Ramsey will soon suffer a gloriously slow and painful end? Preferably at the hands of Sansa?

I think we would all love to see that NIK. We haven't seen Ramsay's demise yet in the books. One can only hope. Unfortunately things are only going to get worse for Sansa I fear. Those stories that the girl washing Sansa's hair was telling are true. Ramsay is pure evil. I really hope he gets what's coming to him.

On a lighter note and not to be crass, but has anyone seen a good c@ck merchant? oh man did Tyrion pull himself out of that one.