SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

About a 1 1/2 months ago I noticed a paper sticking out from under the driver's side floormat of my husband's (Vincent) car. I looked, and it was an LA Express tabloid, which is ads for personals and escorts mostly. I thought "hmm, ok" then I saw a plastic bag under the driver's seat, looked, and it was filled with at least 30 of them. Again, "hmmm, ok". I didn't think a ton about that, but it remained in the back of my mind. If he's just looking at pics, no big deal. I'm not a prude.

He is a "luddite" - he never gets on the computer, has no email, no FB, nothing except we both have iPhones. He is always handing me his phone to have me locate a call he received, to text (yes, he won't text, which I find mind blowing - he asks me to text people, which isn't that often). Couple months ago I noticed he made a call to Las Vegas, thought that was strange, he knows no one in LV, but whatever. Then 5 1/2 weeks ago I saw a second call to Las Vegas, and I Googled it and it was an escort who travels around (you can have a LV cell phone number and not be there, you can be anywhere with cell phones). My heart started pounding, the palms of my hands got wet, and I was in a panic.

That night I asked him about calling escorts. He acted surprised and hemmed and hawed and then said "OH THAT!!" then he explains he let someone named "Crazy Jake" who comes in at work use his phone because he didn't want his girlfriend to find out. Of course I didn't believe that and said so and went into how cheating ruins lives, and if someone wants to see escorts they should break up and go see them all they want and blah blah blah... He got all sorry and holds me and says he's sorry, so sorry, he loves me so much, doesn't want to lose me ... over and over and over. He was only apologizing for letting someone use his phone.

Few days later we have another talk and I ask who was that person who used his phone and how did that come about? He refers to the guy this time as Crazy Jason and says the guy had loaned him money years ago and so Vincent "owed him one" and let him use his phone to make those calls. I knew that was a stupid lie. I'm not that stupid. He couldn't even get the name straight.

I then pulled a year's worth of phone records (both our iPhones are on one bill, but I never previously paid any attention to the bills, he just pays them) and discovered this started last September 13. Between September and the end of February he made at least 35 calls to escorts, the calls were between 1 and 4 minutes in duration and mostly when he was immediately off work (after 6:30 pm). I Googled them and confirmed it, even saw their pictures. Most are TS, transsexuals. He had a habit of not getting home until 7, 7:30, or even 8 pm, which back then I didn't think much of it. But the truth is, he clocks out of work at 6:30 each night.

So a few days later we have another huge discussion. He backs down on the Crazy Jake/Jason story and admits he made the calls, but he says he never EVER met up with any of them, he just liked their "nice voices" that they were "nice" to him and there were only a few calls. He says he's NEVER cheated on me with anyone - ever - and never would. He loves me with all his heart... These discussions have been relatively calm, no yelling or fighting, just talking. I don't have a lot of anger in me yet, I'm in MASSIVE SHOCK.

Backstory: his ex-wife cheated on him horribly. They've been divorced for nearly 20 years. She had a daughter from an affair with Vincent's best friend. That "best friend" refused to have anything to do with this daughter so Vincent raised her as his own and adopted her. His ex ran off with another guy and left their 3 kids for my husband to raise by himself for 3 years. Everyone has always said that Vincent would NEVER EVER cheat on me because of what happened to him with his ex. I always thought so too. So this shocks me even more. I did not see this coming.

He has DENIED DENIED DENIED. He says he only made phone calls, never met up with anyone, never cheated on me. Ever.

I looked again at the timeline of the phone logs and found something that, as far as I'm concerned, is as close to proof as I'll ever get. The dots totally connect. I forgot that in November he went to see a local band we know play at a small club near here, I didn't go because I wasn't feeling well. The band played at 9:30, so by 10:30 the band would have been done. He made two 1 minute calls (prob no answer or they weren't available) to the same escort number at 10:45, then the 3rd call to another number was 4 minutes in duration (they must have answered and maybe something was set up). About 15 minutes later he made a 1 minute call to them - as if he arrived at their place and was saying "I'm here" ?? He didn't get home that night until around 12:45 am - I clearly remember looking at the clock, and I remember he walked in the house looking a bit sheepish, like he thought I'd be mad he was out so late, but I wasn't because I didn't know anything. That's nearly 2 hours, plenty of time. And I just found the ad for that number in the LA Express, and oh god, a slightly hefty (not very attractive) looking TS. He prefers that to me??? It really nauseates me. I asked Vincent about this night and he says he watched the band play, called me to tell me he was coming home, then came home. That's a lie. The phone records prove it. He didn't call me that night.

He says the escorts never answer their phones, you get voicemail, they screen their calls. So all he did was just make calls. No visits. I told him just calling is cheating because it shows intent, he of course didn't like that. He says it was just a fantasy. He says he NEVER cheated on me or EVER met any of those escorts.

About 2 weeks ago he had a horrible mental breakdown because I was crying really bad and telling him I was devastated and heartbroken (etc - something I had told him a lot previously too), and then he collapsed on the floor and wouldn't get up for 4 HOURS and he was crying and wailing hysterically and clenching his shirt with his fist for that whole time and insisting he never cheated on me or met any of those escorts and that he hates his job and he just wailed and wailed on and on. He said somewhat suicidal things ("I wish I could fall asleep and never wake up") - he has serious mental problems. I was about to call 911. Next day he acted fine.

I haven't shown him the paper I have that lists all the phone calls. I'm scared to, I can't take another huge flip-out and he can't either, but without him seeing the evidence clearly of what he did and us discussing it, where do I go from there? What do I do? He acts like it's a resolved issue, that everything is ok now. He says he apologized, which he did a million times, and he's mad I don't believe him still. He says he would believe me. I'm still in massive turmoil. What do I do?

During the past 4 or 5 weeks, he would get in "apology/remorse mode" and promise me to be nice, to give me passionate kisses whenever I need them or want them. I told him I was "broken" and he promised me he's help me to heal no matter how long it took or what ever it took. Now, though, it's back to normal. He's grumpy a lot of the time, and pulls away from me. I told him we need to try a marriage counselor, and his most recent reaction to that was a disgusted look. He really believes everything is ok now. The look on his face was like "oh god I'll have to rehash all this all over again"...

I'm so lost and (still) in shock. Some hours I'm ok, other times it just HITS me - he did WHAT??? Please help.

I am so sorry for your pain.

2 words of advice.

1. Get tested for stds. Better save than sorry.

2. Get a VAR. That will get you proof hopefully

Yes, we got a full STD testing and everything was negative. However, the doctor told us it takes 6 months for HIV to show up on a test, so we have to re-test then. Considering it was TS escorts I'm worried.

I looked in the Abreviations, and I don't know what a VAR is?

Sorry. A voice activated recorder. Put it in hubby's car. Hopefully you can get answers.

womaninshock,

Welcome to SI. Glad you found us, but sorry for the reasons you're here.

My exH also cheated with escorts, tho not TS escorts. Like you, when I finally started putting the pieces together, it was the cell phone records and bank records that gave me the most reliable information. Look for ATM withdrawals on those nights like the concert night. Look for strange cash withdrawals for the times he came home late from work. That is how I finally got some proof that he could not deny.

That's the thing with the WS's that frequent escorts as opposed to having an A with a person - remember, they have to PAY for them.

And gently, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "we just talked" explanations. My exH tried to say the email I found from a hooker was SPAM. When confronted, most will deny, defend, and deflect. They will LIE to your face. Mine did. He only confessed to encounters for which I had irrefutable proof. No matter how much I begged and pleaded for the truth, he told me only about the things he knew I had found.

I know your head is swimming and your heart is broken. It's like you have woken up in a nightmare and the person you've been sharing your life with is now a total stranger.

Perhaps you should set up a session with an MC to see if you can confront him with a professional that will help him feel safe enough to tell you the truth? If you don't get the truth, there is just no way for you to make an informed decision about YOUR life.

And, please get yourself tested for STD's. THAT was the most humiliating day of my life. It is horrible to go through and have to tell your Dr. why you want to be tested, but you must do it.

Try to just take things one day at a time, and sometimes, one minute at a time. Your world has been exploded. Just take measures to take care of yourself (as much as you can).

This journey to the truth, and the aftermath of that truth, will be among the hardest you've ever experienced. Keep posting here. We will help you through this.

Huge hugs...

Your husband is a liar, and a bad one at that.

Your husband is an actor, and a bad one at that.

His past history doesn't make much sense.

It sounds like you got yourself a real winner and he will never admit to any affair even if you caught him with his penis inside an escort (TS) YUUUKKK!!!

In addition to the previous advice, no unprotected

sex.

You have to protect yourself, because you are married to a man more interested in protecting his own secrets and lies than he is in protecting his wife and marriage.

His wailing was not remorse. It was a combination temper tantrum and smokescreen. Tantrum because his secret is about to emerge, which will force him to either make changes he doesn't want to make or face an uncertain marital future. If the tantrum is long and loud enough, it's a good distraction, too--a smokescreen. You're left concerned for his mental status rather than investigating his escort activity, if the tantrum goes as planned.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but as a wife whose husband also used paid sex workers, I know how disorienting it is. It's almost unthinkable--and this near-unbelievability can make it easier to discount. We want to believe, and when confronted with something so seemingly outlandish, it's actually easier to believe.

Don't fall for it. Your health --life!-- may depend on you keeping a clear head. No unprotected sex. Not until he's owned it, had considerable time (if you're willing to offer this gift; if it's a dealbreaker, it's okay, too) to demonstrate his commitment to R, and all followup testing has been completed.

Your doctor's recommendation for retesting at 6 months is based on the assumption that he has not had a single instance of sex outside your marriage since the first test.

You cannot safely make this assumption. Not when he has not been honest about possible exposure. Not until you know the extent of his actions. Not until you have a timeline with which you are comfortable.

Really, the testing needs to take place at the recommended interval until six months AFTER all of the above has been established. During this time, no unprotected sex.

Reconciliation is a prolonged proposition. If he wants to demonstrate he has it in him, as well as start the clock for healing, he needs to come clean.

My husband would not admit anything I didn't already know. I did have to lay it out. "I've used phone records to track your actions..." Etc.

That your husband is a Luddite works in your favor. You likely could tell him something like, "You know, your phone has GPS on it. And it occurred to me to check some of the things you've told me. It's been quite an education, when compared with phone records and the calendar, which tells me when youve worked or come home late. I'm going to be honest: my respect for you is flagging. Not so much because you've been visiting TS escorts--though that obviously creates huge problems for us to overcome--but because you've become a man who seems to effortlessly lie. If you want to regain a shred of my respect--maybe enough for me to even consider R, you'll start talking--and telling me from the beginning."

I am so, so sorry for your pain. I truly understand.

Please. Protect yourself. No unprotected sex.

[This message edited by solus sto at 2:10 AM, April 14th (Tuesday)]

His drama queen 4-hour tantrum was probably more about being embarrassed that his dark secret was discovered - that he has sex with trannies. I honestly don't know any truly heterosexual men who'd even CONSIDER having sex with a transsexual, so I'm not sure what his real attraction to them is.

I think the other part of his little tantrum was fear of being booted out the door if you find out how many times he's REALLY had sex with trannies. But I'd be willing to bet it's been going on for a while, now.

Glad to hear your STD tests were negative, although the HIV one will take time. I can't believe he was selfish enough to risk your health like this just for his sick little fetish for she-males.

I'm awful sorry you've been dealt this hand.

He freaked out as a way to shut you down.

And it worked.

It's manipulation.

And..it's bullshit.

Look..you know he had sex with them. You don't need him to confirm that..you have the evidence right there.

Until he faces what he has done, you are not safe with him. A man who is cheating on you is unsafe. A man who is lying about his sexuality, while cheating on you with transexual hookers...is dangerous.

Thank you for the help, I'm so in need of help. I need the honesty all of you are giving me. I'm 53 and he's 59 years old, so we aren't youngsters. We've been together for 5 1/2 years and married for over 2 years. I'm not eager to divorce, if this can be worked out I want to try.

We were having unprotected sex for the 5 months he was doing all that because I didn't know! Since D-day (end of Feb) we stopped having sex. But I'm worried about the 5 months when I didn't have a clue what was going on, and it was not unprotected. I had no reason to suspect anything then.

A bit more information about what happened:

Back in November (before I knew of anything) he found a tiny bump on the base of his penis. He had this fearful look when he told me, so I looked at it, but as soon as I got the magnifying glass he freaked a bit and got nervous and would barely let me look. I think he realized the ramifications, because he knew what he had been doing and I didn't. So I got a quick look and it seemed like a skin tag, I wasn't that concerned. He decided not to have a doctor look at it, and I forgot about it.

Cut to immediately after D-day, 5+ weeks ago. He has MORE bumps around the base of his penis. At this point I knew about the escort calls and was TERRIFIED. I Googled it, and it looked like genital warts. So we both go to the doctor together. The dr looks and she says "yes, that's genital warts". We also got the STD blood/urine work. I was so devastated with us coming home wearing the gauze/tape on our arms where they drew the blood.

That night we talked for hours. I told him STOP THE BULLSHIT this is potentially life and death. TELL ME THE TRUTH. I'll understand, we'll work it out, just TELL ME. He kept denying, saying he only called to hear their "nice" voice.

Anyway, the doctor sent us to a dermatologist (took 2 weeks to get appt and then test results - in that time I was livid and beyond heartbroken - it was like we were at a constant funeral - things were so grim) and they did a biopsy on two of the spots to be sure. It came back as Seborrheic Keratosos - NOT HPV NOT genital warts. WHY did this pop up NOW??? The Gods must really have a horrible warped sense of humor. And they are located at the BASE of the penis (where a condom would not cover - any skin-to-skin contact can spread the virus) Weird, but we both were relieved of course.

During the time we thought it was HPV and were waiting for test results, he tried to convince me that he got it years ago before he met me. HPV lives in the host and may never show symptoms for years, or ever (though 2/3 of people get a breakout within 2 to 6 months of exposure) so he was going on that, insisting he got it from a past GF.

So, ok, no HPV. Thank God!! But ... he still COULD have the HPV virus because there is no test for men and he apparently has no symptoms but the virus can still be there. I got a pap and will get results later this week, including HPV which can be tested in women as part of the pap. He took the diagnosis as some sort of proof that he had no contact with the escorts. It's not proof of that at all. There's no test for men, so unless I ever get to the point where I believe him, I'm always in potential danger of contracting the virus. Even condoms don't prevent the spread of the virus, because they don't cover the top part where skin still touches. After the no-hpv diagnosis he was annoyed at me saying I treated him like a leper. I'm still thinking he should get a second opinion from another dermatologist, there were tiny little brown spots that I swear moved around - there were 5 on the top side and 5 underneath, then they were gone and in a different places. The dermatologist said neither genital warts or Seborrheic Keratosos moves around. That worries me.

When we still thought it was genital warts a few weeks ago I suggested to him that he had them around his butt which he immediately vehemently denied, no way. I walked out of the room, came back a couple minutes later, and he was in the bathroom with a hand mirror and his pants down, looking. The door was only closed 1/2 way so I saw him doing this and asked if I could help by holding a flashlight or something. He got SO ANGRY - he SNAPPED at me in this horrible tone of voice "LEAVE ME ALONE, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE - JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" - I had never heard that tone of voice before. He was SERIOUSLY shaken up. I left the room, he put away the mirror, but then I came back 5 minutes later and he was back in the bathroom with the mirror and pants down looking some more and he yelled at me again in that tone of voice. Why check your butt and be THAT angry if you didn't do any anal activity?

He has 3 adult children from his previous marriage, ages 23, 27, and 30. He hasn't mentioned them in all this, however, it occurred to me maybe that was part of the 4 hour mental breakdown - he is scared we would break up, and his kids would find out the embarrassing truth. He's often told me that his ex-wife told "lies" about him to his kids. I wonder what those "lies" were. I wonder if he did something similar to this back then, phone sex, or escorts. I have no indication of this, but I wonder.

It seems weird a guy would just suddenly start calling escorts, but guys do. There are FOUR newspaper dispenser boxes with the LAXpress tabloids on one block where he works, and one right in front of where he works. I see that tabloid everywhere on the streets here in LA, it's a free paper. I never thought about it much, but now I look at those as tabloids of heartbreak and despair.

If we do break up I decided I would only tell his kids that he did something that hurt me REALLY REALLY REALLY bad, and leave it at that. He can't accuse me of lying if that's all I say. If I ever told them the truth, he'd simply lie and tell them I'm lying.

During another conversation I told him I was utterly broken. He promised me he would help me any way he could, for as long as it took. However, really the only "help" would be for him to come clean and he refuses. I'm trying to get an appt with a MC. When this first started he was totally willing, but now his attitude is that there is nothing else to say or do, it's all ok now, he's apologized a million times and that's that. So when I mentioned a therapist more recently he gave me an annoyed look. But I do think he'd go. That's our only hope right now. Maybe a professional can guide the truth out of him, or knock some sense in him.

He is massively secretive, always has been. I took that to mean he was a private person and I dealt with it as such, I really didn't think he had any serious secrets that would be detrimental to me. He lost a past girlfriend 8 years ago to cancer and has brought that up A LOT since D-day as if that's a reason to see escorts, a reason why he's so lost, a reason for his depression and breakdown. I used to see a VHS tape in his backpack he takes to work, and I mentioned it because I thought it was porn because it was also next to a porn DVD in his backpack (yeah that he took porn to work every day, why did I not say something about that??). He said it was a video of that dead GF acting silly and did I want to see it? He's asked me twice now if I want to watch it. No, I declined to watch it, but maybe I should. Why is he taking a vhs tape to work of his dead GF?

Also, he ALWAYS pays for stuff in cash, since the day I met him. He cashes his paychecks at the bank, though he has a checking account, and carries $100 bills around (and stashes them in his car, a habit I told him many times is really really dumb - the car is not a bank and is not secure). He doesn't have a debit card, and rarely uses his one credit card. However, that said, I don't know how he spends $3000 a month take home pay and almost every month he says he's broke. His expenses (that I know of) are only $1500 or so a month, and that's allowing a generous amount for gas, coffee, incidentals.

I don't really want to lie and say there was GPS on his phone, but yes he wouldn't know there isn't. I would consider downloading a tracking app onto his phone, maybe. Right now he knows he can't make any weird calls or I'll be all over it - I check AT&T daily. I also think he's too dumb to realize he could buy a pre-paid phone and use that for calls. If he did that, I'd never know. I often wonder what if I never found out? If it weren't for the 2 Las Vegas numbers I wouldn't have noticed anything.

However, that said, I don't know how he spends $3000 a month take home pay and almost every month he says he's broke. His expenses (that I know of) are only $1500 or so a month, and that's allowing a generous amount for gas, coffee, incidentals.

womaninshock,

There's your answer. Follow the money. That is how I got definitive proof of the depth and length of time that my exH was seeing escorts. If he is blowing an extra $1,500/mo, that money is going for more than gas, coffee, etc.

I hate to say this, but the story you've told leads me to believe he's seeing escorts and he has had physical encounters with them. And, my guess would be that it has been going on FAR longer than you suspect. That's what I found out with my exH. He "admitted" to "maybe 4 times in the last 2 years". What I learned was that he was visiting strip clubs, getting lap dances, and "graduated" to prostitutes for at LEAST 4 years, and likely more. In short, he was living a double life for at least half of our marriage - maybe longer. We were married for 15 years, so that leaves at least 6-7 years of deceit.

Now you know why my screen name is "Too Trusting".

His behavior with the mirror and his angry outbursts over you catching him looking is VERY damning. If a person has never participated in risky behavior with "that" part of the body, why is there a reason to look? You know the answer.

I don't want to sound like so much gloom and doom, but unless and until your H can tell you the TRUTH, you have no foundation for reconciliation. You have to have HONESTY to build back trust. Without that, it will eat away at your soul and you will, at some point, disengage from the relationship. (rightly so).

Honestly, I think he has a LOT of issues that he has kept hidden for a long, long time. When someone does that, it becomes a way of life for them. My exH did the same thing. It was his secret life, and as long as no one found out about it, he figured no one could get hurt. How's that for shitty thinking???

Keep searching for MC and see if you can get to the truth with a counselor. Until he ADMITS the truth, you cannot even begin to work on reconciliation. I have my doubts that he will EVER admit to the truth, though.

Hugs to you. Keep posting and we'll help you through this.

Until he faces what he has done, you are not safe with him. A man who is cheating on you is unsafe. A man who is lying about his sexuality, while cheating on you with transexual hookers...is dangerous.

^^THIS ABSOLUTELY^^

Protect yourself at all costs.

The migrating lesions concern me. Who did his STD screening? For what, specifically, was he tested? I'd be more inclined to see an infectious disease specialist, for the second opinion, than another dermatogist. Blood testing for HIV is only the beginning.

He had sex with the escorts. Until he gets real and gets honest, you have to err on the side of caution and assume he is still doing so.

If you achieve real R, with all it brings, then yes-at some point you will likely make a leap of faith and again trust him with your body.

You are nowhere near that now. Every day he stonewalls, you get further away.

Have you told him this? Does he know you know he's lying, that he's had sex with escort(s), and ---and this is the critical part--are STILL willing to consider R? Does he know that the offer of this enormous gift will expire if he doesn't ditch the self-protection in favor of protecting YOU and your marriage?

This is not a court case. You don't need to prove, to him, what was done. He already knows. You know!

It's not time to argue about whether he did. It's time to figure out what he's willing (and equipped) to do to leave this life-threateningly unhealthy behavior behind so you can move forward constructively.

Chances are, you will learn he's ill-equipped to deal with this. He will need to gather lots of new coping skills. Until he does, and gains some experience handling them, I'd back-burned MC in favor of IC--for both of you.

There is nothing to work with, at this point, in MC. He needs to get to remorse and honesty first. Until he does, MC will be, at very best, utterly fruitless and, at worst, profoundly damaging to you, emotionally.

I'm so sorry. It all is so very difficult. You WILL get through this.

In your shoes, I'd consider a strong 180 until he decides to value you, your relationship, your family, and honesty and integrity.

Your last post pretty much substantiates what I said in my earlier post - he's been at this for a while. This wasn't his first rodeo.

Just out of curiosity - what the hell is so wrong with this man that his fetish for trannies causes him to spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars a year that should be put toward retirement? He's not 22 - he's almost friggen 60 years old and he's blowing money like he's some irresponsible young kid who doesn't know any better and has the next 40 years to save.

You know what I find most unforgiveable? The fact that he refused to be honest with you and has continually risked YOUR sexual health for his selfish satisfaction. Even when he had those lumps he was STILL lying to you rather than caring enough about you to tell you the truth so you could get medical attention. You had to get it on your own steam due to your suspicions, not out of any concern he had for you. That's unforgivable. That money he's blowing every month is being spent on tranny encounters and god only KNOWS what he's exposed you to.

And lastly, he's got a shitty attitude. He's STILL lying, he's treating you like crap most of the time, and he's acting like you just need to shut the hell up and get on with it.

He's got zero remorse for what he's done and what he's put you through. He's got zero remorse for how his little fetish has continually risked your sexual health. He's still lying, he's still deceiving you, and without a doubt in my mind, he'll be back to the seedy part of town paying some tranny for it's 'services' one day in the future once you DO start to relax and life starts to get back to normal.

Everyone has their kinks or fetishes. There's not a therapist on earth who's gong to magically make his fetish disappear. I think people put far too much stock in therapy - that all you have to do is go and everything comes out right as rain. Not so.

Is this really how you want to live the rest of your life? I mean, really? This man has crushed you with his lies and betrayal and downright nasty attitude towards you and you're actually begging him to be nice to you?

I hope once you're out of the haze of shock you're in, you realize you're worthy and valuable and don't have to settle for this nasty and degrading way of life.

Good luck to you.

solus sto and NeverAgain NAILED IT. Read both of those posts again and again. I think I was trying to "gently" get you to the truth, when in fact, Solus nailed it with this: You KNOW what he's done. He knows what he's done. Now, he has to OWN it and be willing to work on fixing it. Without that, I'd agree that MC would be a waste of time.

womaninshock, I didn't tell you this initially because this is JFO and I was trying to be gentle. But on D-Day, my exH and I separated and headed for divorce. We never cohabitated again. It was, essentially, a shot to the heart that could not be healed. I KNEW my exH; I KNEW that he would never do the hard work required to be the man I thought he was; I KNEW I'd spend the rest of my life playing detective, trying to catch him and outsmart him.

I couldn't, and wouldn't live like that. And NeverAgain is right: counseling doesn't magically "fix" things like this.

Solus said it best:

It's not time to argue about whether he did. It's time to figure out what he's willing (and equipped) to do to leave this life-threateningly unhealthy behavior behind so you can move forward constructively.

Chances are, you will learn he's ill-equipped to deal with this. He will need to gather lots of new coping skills. Until he does, and gains some experience handling them, I'd back-burned MC in favor of IC--for both of you.

There is nothing to work with, at this point, in MC. He needs to get to remorse and honesty first. Until he does, MC will be, at very best, utterly fruitless and, at worst, profoundly damaging to you, emotionally.

Please take care of YOU. I know these are not easy posts to read, but you must take care of YOURSELF first. YOU cannot "fix" him, and YOU have to determine what you are willing to accept in your marriage.

[This message edited by Too_Trusting at 10:46 AM, April 15th (Wednesday)]

Sure sounds like your husband is leading a double life. He loves his family and his wife, and he also loves random hookups with transexuals, like other people might love going mountain biking, or playing golf, or gambling. It is who he is. He's managed to keep the two compartmentalized amazingly well. People do that.

I bet his previous wife would have some stories that you would resonate with. This sort of thing doesn't pop up at age 59 out of the blue.

So sorry to hear your story.

Our primary doctor ordered blood and urine work, and we went to a lab to get the blood drawn and they performed the STD tests. We were both tested for all STDs, both hepatitis, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, HIV. HPV (virus that causes genital warts) can't be tested in men (except to biopsy a wart if there is one), and can be tested in women in the pap test (I just got the results and everything is normal - no HPV, that's a relief).

I know each one of you is right. I'm having trouble with the idea of being alone, being without him, even though what he has done is beyond egregious and I don't know if I can ever truly forgive and I don't think I can forget. I wake up thinking about this, and think about it all day while I work. I'm terrified of being alone. I'm terrified of what he's done and still might do in the future. I do want to reconcile if it's possible.

He's been extremely nice - nicer than usual - most of the time since this started, but I realize he's trying to put out the fire. I do see the "old him" too, the grumpy guy who pushes me away, but more often since D-day he's super nice and affectionate.

I thought I'd spend the rest of my life with him. I have to comprehend otherwise, that reality is not sinking in. I've asked myself, what in the world does he have to do to get kicked out of my life, when what he DID ALREADY DO is horrible? It sends a message that he basically can do whatever he wants, lie about it, and eventually it will all go away without any lasting consequences. That's not a good precedent.

He knows I don't believe him. He's mad that I don't believe him and has said if I loved him I'd believe him, especially since the biopsy came back benign. He's begged me to believe him - hours of begging - and I've seen true terror in his eyes during those times.

I'm going to talk to him again tonight or tomorrow, now that I have some new ammo and help. I believe I'm entitled to ask him any and all questions I need to ask, no matter how uncomfortable he gets with it. I get uncomfortable with conflict myself, but I have to find the courage to say what has to be said, and ask what I need to ask, until I feel satisfied and can make a decision. He created this problem, not me, I've had to actually remind him of this. He also needs to get it in his head that this is SERIOUS, and I'm not blowing it out of proportion. It's about as serious as it gets. He thinks it's no biggie now.

Tell him you want him to take a polygraph. Find a reputable administrator in your area and set up the appointment.

Early on he offered to take a lie detector test, he suggested it, which surprised me but I think he offered knowing I wouldn't take him up on it, so it makes him look honest. I'm not sure if those tests are really reliable, though. Also, I think he's gotten so good at lying (a lifetime of practice), he really believes his lies and I don't think I could accept the results of that test if it came back "innocent".

His lying is a way of avoiding conflict. Give the answer that will shut whoever up, and if there is no way to confirm the lie, then all the better, who will even know. Even little things he lies about, rather than hear the other person's arguments.

womaninshock,

Interesting post about your H offering to take the polygraph, knowing that you wouldn't take him up on it. I had a similar situation with my exH. He was scheduled to take a trip out of the country with his best friend. About 4 days before he was supposed to leave, he had me checking for something on his computer. I found LOTS of google searches for prostitutes in Europe. As soon as he got home from work that day, I confronted him in a very calm manner about those searches. Of course, he told me he was just goofing around on the computer and got "carried away" by his curiosity. He even said that he would cancel the trip if I was the least bit uncomfortable. He KNEW I wouldn't make him cancel that trip; it would leave his friend in a lurch, and it would be horribly embarrassing to us as I was also BFF with his friend's wife.

So, you see that these "grand gestures" are carefully planned manipulations. My exH knew I wouldn't make him cancel the trip, but he looks completely innocent because he offered. Same with your H. He offered to take the polygraph, knowing you wouldn't take him up on it.

Just another page out of the cheater's handbook, I suppose.

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