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I don't see this as her being disingenuous at all. She is trying to go back to the very beginning and see why any of these things happen, do we spend as much time figuring out if we should be married to this person as we do to why the affair happened.

I think that the reason it might seem disingenuous is because as the OP, she hasn't answered the question. It appears to merely be an observation. Sometimes the words we choose to express ourselves are very meaningful. For example, "Affairs make sense to me" vs. "I can understand how affairs happen".

When you say

Wonder how many have done some mental health inventories, and that's "our" mental health not "theirs" before entering into a lifelong (hopefully) commitment.

That really isn't trying to answer the question "why did I marry?" It's doesn't seem to imply introspection.

I thought I had covered that, Walkingoneggshells, that's part of what I'm working on. While some post here that marraige is very easy to understand, it's a huge decision and one I am still struggling with determining why. Why when he seemed to change so much was he my focus instead of me. It's like the marriage became an obsession. I can fix this, whatever is wrong because it must be me.

I'm thinking my journey is more individual at the moment.

I am having trouble seeing how trying to untangle the yarn of dysfunction wherever it may lead would be disingenuous. Because I didn't tell you why I got married? That's the rub. Those reasons no longer apply as that reality did not exist. Can we build something real and healthy? I hope so but the people both need to be healthy for the marriage to be, at least for me.

Understanding an affair no way excuses it. That's not what I was saying. Nor was I saying it was a solution for any issues in a relationship in any way. Far from it. I think that focusing on the affair only would sure leave a lot of shit choices untouched and I am NOT going to go through this again. Once was more than enough. I can't fix anything unless I work through this. ALL of it.

Those reasons no longer apply as that reality did not exist. Can we build something real and healthy?

If this is the case, then why even ask the question?

I'm sorry, Walkingoneggshells, the quote you used doesn't fit with the why I asked. I am seeing how my choices even back then were far from awesome, now but not far along enough yet to see what was behind them. Yes, my reality changed, as well.

I was seeing if others had also questioned if they had healthy thought processes and used those in making that choice as well. A few said they were also finding there may have been some of those same screwed up strands then.

First question my dr asks me when I make an appointment when I'm sick, "how long have you been feeling like this"? I figured a pretty good place to start. I'm sure there's further still.

Thank you for all the responses. It helps me. A lot.

Is there a problem with this question being posed?

Of course not, tiredgirl. Just trying to get a better picture of what is going here.

I think this thead is brilliant. I think that the root of most interpersonal conflicts is going into a relationship with the concious or subconscious perspective of "What am I going to get out of it"

Going into a marriage with the idea of gaining something, be it material possessions, social acceptability, attention or affection, or whatever can only lead to trouble.

The only true "why" to enter any relationship should be "what do I have to offer?"

The only true "why" to enter any relationship should be "what do I have to offer?"

A pure thought and intention no doubt. While I admire the idea of complete selflessness, I have a hard time believing such an act could ever exist throughout ones entire life.

"The only true "why" to enter any relationship should be "what do I have to offer?"

Yep, and the "offer" is what's been in my thoughts a lot lately. I think some real self reflection would have been critical. You are committing yourself to someone that will now play a key role in your happiness. How will I handle things if that person isn't safe, doesn't keep those promises? I know how I handled it as a child. I detached, withdrew, closed off, protected. Not a skill set. Just a response. How can I respond as an adult without harming myself or him?

That's not saying anyone else is responsible for our happiness but the simple fact is one person can sure do a real number on it as evidenced for the reason for this site. Wouldn't having a plan for that maybe be smart?

Attraction can be so very strong, and so quickly fade. Living with someone day in and day out can provide a real behind the scenes view that kind of ruins the entire play.

How are they with money? How are you with money. I never thought about any of these things yet they greatly impact the relationship. You are the CFO of a corporation now and if you have a partner, or you are a partner that spends money like you stole it you can derail, indebt, forfeit future earnings. There is so much financial infidelity around that commercials joke about it. The chick hiding the dress/boots..."this old thing?". Yeah, real funny when you get a call from the bank because the mortgage was not paid...it was gambled.

How do we communicate? Do we work through problems? What am I looking for in a relationship? I do know it wasn't to feel alone. I never got married with the escape plan of, "if this doesn't work out I'll just get a divorce". I also apparently didn't have real good internal plan of what to do if the bottom fell out. How do I handle anger? How do I cope with lack of empathy from the source I felt I would never have to worry about it? How do I respond when I'm disappointed, hurt, my voice ignored?

I found perfect quote and painted it on a trunk I gave to one of my friends getting married that I wish I had seen and really thought about.

The Marriage Box

Most people get married believing a myth that marriage is a beautiful box full of things they have longed for; Companionship, intimacy, friendship etc...

The truth is, that marriage at the start is an empty box, you must put something in before you can take anything out. There is no love in marriage, love is in people, and people put love in marriage. There is no romance in marriage. a couple must learn the art, and form the habit of giving, loving, serving, praising, of keeping the box full. If you take out more than you put in, the box will be empty.

I wish you both a full box and the desire to keep filling it forever.

That was something I should have worked on myself before I ever even thought about taking that leap. One person alone can not do it. BUT one person can keep their box full. That's my work right now. Without that work the other is a certain failure.

I had those 'detached' thoughts in evaluating fWH after our first fight, before putting the effort into sorting it out. I determined that he: has the same financial attitudes that I do, comes from a function FOO which minimizes some risk, has had the same best friend since he was 8 which evidences loyalty, wants kids like I do, enjoys many of the same active & leisure activities that I do. I figured, if I have the touchy-feelies enough to seriously date him, and if we line up on paper like that, it's worth figuring this out. So we did.

Sadly, he finds that evaluation somewhat hurtful because he wanted to be loved enough that I'd throw caution to the wind and go with simply, "I love you, let's get married ", which I do love the idea of, but then you're stuck with this person and their dirty dishes, and their laundry, and the way they squeeze the toothpaste for life. And I only wanted to do this once. So I thought about it like that. And i think having thought about it like that is also part of why I'm agreeing to R. We are a good match if he is going to do his part of th work. We can have and enjoy a good life together.

I suppose it's not surprising, given my above practical approach, that I was able to take the hits of life and stick to it, while he took those hits and went to affairs.

My $.02

"I suppose it's not surprising, given my above practical approach, that I was able to take the hits of life and stick to it"

Yeah, it's not the hits from life I struggled/struggle with. I've got that one down. It's the "hits" from him where I failed. I tend to want to hit back instead of taking my ball and leaving. That's where I need to really shore up. You kind of don't plan for your partner to be your Achilles heel. Considering the divorce rate, I should have and how I'd respond to it.

Yeah, it's not the hits from life I struggled/struggle with. I've got that one down. It's the "hits" from him where I failed. I tend to want to hit back instead of taking my ball and leaving. That's where I need to really shore up. You kind of don't plan for your partner to be your Achilles heel.

I don't yet know what happened in your childhood but I can guess as you have developed certain coping skills that are very familiar.

This same thing happened to me, only those that were let in to my inner circle had the power to hurt me.

only those that were let in to my inner circle had the power to hurt me.

I'd suggest that it's only the people in the inner circle who possess the real power to hurt us. Even when you make healthy, adaptive choices, this is the case.

Oftentimes I think that when you have been wounded that number is very small. Maybe one to two people.

But, yes I agree with what you are saying solus.

"only those that were let in to my inner circle had the power to hurt me.

I'd suggest that it's only the people in the inner circle who possess the real power to hurt us. Even when you make healthy, adaptive choices, this is the case."

Yes! And that is a huge part of that mess I'm just starting to see and work through. The screening technique of who to let get close. Emotionally unavailable? Come on in. Familiar so safe. WRONG!!! Now that I let that in I need to not become my own enemy in responding to that threat of my own making.

I could say, but I trusted you and loved you so how could you? But that question is better asked of myself right now. No wonder my marriage box was empty. Sure I was giving but why? To solve an old hurt that's not solvable?

The "why...marriage" question has evolved. Another fork in the road. To the left, blaming your husbands behavior and why it's your Achilles heal. To the right, the opportunity to understand your husbands behavior (aspergers) and "why...not understanding your husbands behavior" could possibly be your own Achilles heal.

Know your enemy.

No its an important question. What is marriage?

thats something you need to define, just watch for where you look for the definition.

For me? Marriage means I have a witness to my life. That might sound odd, but its intensely real. One flesh.That idea feels very scary. obviously we dont turn into weird creatures growing together and sharing body parts. But why the graphic metaphor?

Because we see and hear the same things. Share the same experiences over time. And if its something that grows then our inner worlds should join.

and somewhere, deep down we long for it. The other term for it besides one flesh is soul mate.

Thats a very Judeo Christian idea.

marriage is in other cultures as well and in nature we see lifetime mates.

when I started my road to recovery I had same questions. Is romantic love really a true thing? and what is marriage?

keep seeking. you have to answer.

"Marriage means I have a witness to my life. That might sound odd, but its intensely real. One flesh.That idea feels very scary. obviously we dont turn into weird creatures growing together and sharing body parts. But why the graphic metaphor?

Because we see and hear the same things. Share the same experiences over time. And if its something that grows then our inner worlds should join"

I have been thinking about this over and over, your whole post, honestly.

It gave me goose bumps. My husband and I always used to joke that the main reason we got married was to be each other's alibi. We figured we'd always be together when the shit got real and if necessary cover for each other if questioned. It was a joke, obviously, but it always felt good. Like we were in this together even when it got rough.

I think some of the real trouble begins when you stop seeing each as on the same side.

I think some of the real trouble begins when you stop seeing each as on the same side.

I think this is true but needs to be taken to the next layer. Is that opposition that begins to develop real or is it perceived?

"I think some of the real trouble begins when you stop seeing each as on the same side.

I think this is true but needs to be taken to the next layer. Is that opposition that begins to develop real or is it perceived"

I'm sure you've heard the saying perception is reality. I do know I didn't "perceive" the late notices on our mortgage because he gambled our money. That was quite real.

Because of his mind he hears things different than what is said and there is no way to convince him that you never said he was stupid. That's what he heard when I'd ask him if he didn't think that no money meant the mortgage wouldn't be there when the bank went to pull it. I never said anything that even resembled that as my husband is not close to stupid. His doctor helped me understand that.

I know that I've read that here quite a bit. Is that anger, hurt, pain based on something real or is it perceived? It makes no difference. If it is perceived, it is real to the person perceiving it.

Husband's and wives often form adversarial relationships. Just the day to day proximity can create issues.

The "next layer", to me isn't to question the feelings but more the process of which you use to resolve those feelings and work through them, together if possible, but definitely individually in ways that don't compromise your beliefs and your self. I see some posters talk about very real feelings here and are told that they aren't real. Rather than worry if they are based on what "you" believe they should have felt I would worry that encouraging them to discount and dismiss is a VERY unhealthy dynamic of stuffing, putting in boxes feelings, for them to fester and blossom into all kinds of ugly things. Now that is a real recipe for disaster.

With aspergers anger is not logical so therefore my husband never feels anger. He feels all sorts of lovely byproducts and morphs but it isn't logical so it doesn't exist. Or if it does exist then he's done with you. Life long friendships dropped just like that. That is an almost impossible dynamic in a relationship and one of the big reasons his doctor told me marriages with an AP and an NT fail at an alarming rate. That dismissed pain and rage he feels doesn't vanish at all. It comes out in all sorts of wonderfully destructive ways. I'm trying to help him see he has a right to anger regardless if he feels it's logical (perceived) or not. His doctor is also trying to show him that it is vital he puts coping skills in place to help him process that anger rather than run or eliminate the source from his life.

Sure, as you become healthier you may look back and think, hmmm, I wouldn't have felt that way now, but telling the "past" you that then would have just created new problems. Learning to deal with feelings to me in no way involves dismissing them. They don't go quietly and tend to take hostages.