SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've never seen any relationship that is "equal,"

I think maybe I should have made the title more clear. I tried to change it to "equally responsible for their parts," but I can't.

Equal responsibility for your actions is not the same as equal.

My WH may have continued to not deal with his issues with himself and our M, but he would not have cheated if it weren't for the manipulative predator that was his AP. That does not make her exceptional or beautiful. That makes her sick.

See, I agree with part of this; my WH would have continued to NOT deal with his issues, and our marriage would have continued with any conflict unresolved and we would have remained feeling somewhat disconnected, but he would not have cheated if it weren't for the AP.

However, for me, while the AP IS manipulative, I don't see THAT as the factor which enticed him to cheat. I believe that it was the utter adoration without any requirement of him, the ease with which her "love" for him was offered that made him feel adequate and massaged his ego which was a stack contrast to the way he was feeling in our own relationship. She didn't even have to manipulate; simply chasing after him all these years obsessively appealed to his ego enough to be enticing.

But here's the thing that is most important IMO. No matter HOW much an AP participated and is responsible for his/her part for the infidelity, :

The cheating happened because the WS had something broken in them, they aren't a safe partner.

So the following is really the place where our energy and efforts must eventually be focused:

I think it is important for R and the healing of the M for WPs who were so weak and broken that they fell for that to acknowledge it. If they don't acknowledge that, they cannot ever completely heal or R

However, for me, while the AP IS manipulative, I don't see THAT as the factor which enticed him to cheat. I believe that it was the utter adoration without any requirement of him, the ease with which her "love" for him was offered that made him feel adequate and massaged his ego which was a stack contrast to the way he was feeling in our own relationship.

I see that as the manipulation. The AP new exactly what to say and do to stroke his ego and to move him further away from me. That's what they call grooming the other person for an A.

Absolutely, our energy must ultimately be focused on our WPs if we want to R. Just don't tell me the AP didn't do anything to me because that's just not true. I would never do that to another wife and mother, if for no other reason that I will not purposely do anything to hurt a child. And, yes, I can say that with absolute certainty. I have always had that conviction. It has only gotten stronger as I have gotten older.

I see that as the manipulation. The AP new exactly what to say and do to stroke his ego and to move him further away from me. That's what they call grooming the other person for an A.

Coco, I see what you are saying, and I get it, but I guess I feel kinda like, it is really up to him whether or not he finds value in pursuing such an empty, superficial, artificial and temporary interaction. He had a choice as to what he found worth the risk, and unfortunately because he was shown throughout his young life that if things get tough,ignore the situation altogether, give up, walk away and move on he never learned how to resolve issues within a relationship. I cannot imagine that a person who never feels the accomplishment or satisfaction of buckling down, digging in and doing the tough work and coming out the other side better and happier than before can truly feel good about him/herself. Turns out my husband didn't and couldn't, so he chose the temporary fix in order to feel better.

No matter what the manipulation, enticing or predatory behavior, it was up to my husband to handle it appropriately and rise to the occasion, but HE didn't. No doubt if she had not relentlessly pursued him, he would NOT have cheated, but she did, and at that point it was all up to him whether or not he would succumb to this sick woman's advances.

However, ...

Just don't tell me the AP didn't do anything to me because that's just not true. I would never do that to another wife and mother, if for no other reason that I will not purposely do anything to hurt a child

I never would. Clearly the AP's in our situations knew about us and the families of our husband's. That alone is enough for me, regardless of the fact that we had a history together which just adds a whole new dimension. These women knowingly took the chance of devastating the worlds of innocent children, and as a mother herself, that is the first thing I thought of actually. I said out loud. "How could she do that knowing that you have two children??? How could she, as a mother do that !!!!"

I like you know for sure, without a shadow of a doubt that I could not do it myself. It is the way that I am made up and there is just no way that I would be able to do that to another human being and not only that, I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that I acted in a way that inflicted pain on innocents when I could have made a different choice and knew that PRIOR to taking those actions... I am with you!

He had a choice as to what he found worth the risk, and unfortunately because he was shown throughout his young life that if things get tough,ignore the situation altogether...he never learned how to resolve issues within a relationship.

That's what my WH learned as a child, too. He actually got into this in his last counseling session. His parents never even disagreed in front of him, much less had a full on argument or fight. I know a lot of people say not to fight in front of the kids, but I think it depends. Obviously, a full-on, knock-down-drag-out is not good for kids to see or hear. However, disagreeing, arguing, and resolving those disagreements in a calm and mature manner is very good for kids to see, imo.

Since my WH never saw that within his parents M, he thought it wasn't supposed to happen. If you disagreed or argued, it meant the relationship was doomed. Also, he never learned how to discuss things. He was not allowed to express opinions contrary to his father's and or express negative emotions. Because of that, he never learned how to do either of those in a productive, healthy way. He learned to passive/aggressive, like his mother, or get extremely defensive and get out of control (not physically abusive, but sarcastic and angry and controlling of the argument).

No matter what the manipulation, enticing or predatory behavior, it was up to my husband to handle it appropriately and rise to the occasion, but HE didn't. No doubt if she had not relentlessly pursued him, he would NOT have cheated, but she did, and at that point it was all up to him whether or not he would succumb to this sick woman's advances.

Yep, absolutely! I have told my WH he is responsible for everything that happened after his AP's advances. He should have recognized them for what they were and stopped her in her tracks. He didn't and that's all on him.

Someone can flirt with me all day. I will ignore them unless they go too far or don't stop. If someone blatantly hits on me, I tell them I'm married and to piss off. Then, I tell my WH about it.

It's kind of sad now. Whenever my WH talks about his AP, he says something like, "Well, that's what she told me, anyway. She was probably lying to me, too." Ya think?

He should have recognized them for what they were and stopped her in her tracks

I have empathy for your husband; he was gullible and broken, and so wanting to feel better that he believed what she was selling.

My husband on the other hand, didn't respect his AP or buy into what she was selling at all, but HE was so broken that he accepted it all anyway just to get his ego stroked. In other words, he wanted the adoration so badly that it didn't really matter that it was coming from a desperate person who never really went away. He couldn't respect her, but he so wanted to like the person who offered this unconditional adoration and 100 percent of her attention and focus that he tried to convince himself that he was in love. Once said out loud, it was clear that no amount of convincing would make it so, and feeling worse, he wound things down and ended it.

There is something even "more pathetic" to me about that than what happened with your husband, though I certainly do not have all the details, but to have been taken in and to have believed in another person only to find out that he/she is not who she says or has not been truthful is one thing, but to really know who someone is and accept what you don't respect just to feel better, feels like a whole other level of desperation and emptiness, and maybe selfishness, I don't know.... I none of it is heathy, either way, and it all hurts the same....

I have empathy for your husband; he was gullible and broken, and so wanting to feel better that he believed what she was selling.

I think maybe you give my WH too much credit. Yes, he was/is broken, just like all other waywards. He's really no different than yours. Ultimately, he bought was his AP was selling because he liked it. It had nothing to do with her as a person. She may have fooled him in the beginning into thinking she was a friend, but as soon as she got inappropriate, he should have stopped it.

As soon as she sent him photos of herself in a bikini, started asking him how he could go so long without sex since we were living apart, disparaging me and saying that she would do things for him that I didn't, his alarms should've started going off like crazy. He should have realized that what she was doing was not being a friend to him or our M, as she had initially presented herself. He should have said, "Woah, woah, woah! That is not okay. I am married. I love my wife. I will not allow you to disparage her like that." He actually told me she was helping him figure out how to make things better with me!

Instead, he took it all in as validation of how he was feeling about me and our M. He liked the attention, especially from a woman 16 years younger than both of us, and fed off the ego kibbles.

He's a freakin' middle aged man! He isn't that dumb. He knew better. He should have turned toward me if he was in that much pain, not away from me. He didn't care b/c it made him feel good and he thought he could control it, not let it go too far.

He's a freakin' middle aged man! He isn't that dumb. He knew better. He should have turned toward me if he was in that much pain, not away from me.

Good point; absolutely.

but as soon as she got inappropriate, he should have stopped it.

Yes, that is true; I suppose the bottom line is they all knew right from wrong, and that what they were doing was wrong no matter what the specific circumstances were, as did the AP's.

I suppose the bottom line is they all knew right from wrong, and that what they were doing was wrong no matter what the specific circumstances were, as did the AP's.

Yep

I've always agreed. Just because the OP didn't commit adultery against me, it doesn't mean she isn't guilty of a horrific crime against me.

I blame them both.