SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I started reading How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair again. I came across this in the very beginning. I wanted to share it because this issue seems to be brought up a lot on here and people (maybe only me ) seem to go around and around about it. I am of the camp that the AP is equally responsible for the A and any fall out from is as the WP. Apparently, so does this "expert" that so many on here suggest reading. I added the bolding.

Whenever someone on here tells me that I need to focus all of my anger and attention on my WH and not give another thought to the AP because she did not destroy my family, not only do I disagree, but I also find it very insulting. There is enough blame and anger to go around. Just because I hold the AP responsible for her part in blowing up my family and my life doesn't mean I am not holding my WP responsible for his part.

"Affair partner

The other man or other woman who was involved with you outside the marriage. Also referred to as the affairee, affair partner, paramour, outside person, third party, other person, or lover. Not to be confused with a harmless friend or victim. He or she is equally responsible for the affair that ruptured your marriage, no matter who seduced who first. "

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 12:42 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

Amen Coco! I agree with you AND Linda McDonald. And I say who are we to argue with the author of the most recommended book on SI?

Totally agree! OW new he was married, could've said no but chose to start an A, so yes, both are responsible! She also wouldn't stop trying to break us up even after my H dumped her stupid ass!

Made our life miserable, especially me, with all her dirty evil tricks and blamed other people instead of owning her shit!

That's why I hate her and will NEVER forgive her for that! She's an ugly evil bitch who still has not changed and prob never will!

I totally agree. It drives me nuts when someone says: "AP didn't stand before my family and pledge to stay faithful to me. .". Who cares? Human decency (and in my case, friendship) should've kept her away.

I have every right to be just as hurt and mad about her actions. And she is doing nothing to rectify them!

Yep, she knew he was married and tried hard to destroy our family. May have succeeded, even though we're trying R and she was fully dumped immediately after dday. Acts like A's are the "cool" thing to do these days. Hate her for this. Him, too, but trying to understand and salvage the M if possible.

agreed.. I hold myself very accountable for what I did to my AP's BS. I broke the mom code, the girl code and the human being code. Seems to me that we are born with the vow to not hurt anyone else.

I understand both sides, as I think they come from different points and wind up talking past each other.

An AP who knowingly participates with a married person is engaging in destruction and betrayal against the BS. It doesn't matter what the intentions are, it doesn't matter if downgraded the BS to being "Just there" - that in itself is dehumanizing and horrible. They engage with someone who is married, know that there is a spouse being completely betrayed and lied to, and know that they're helping in it.

On the other side - I see a lot of effort, energy, and thought being focused and expended on the AP. Their looks, their personality, where they are and what they're doing.

I think it's an important part of healing - yourself, I'm not even talking about the M - to realize that when your spouse betrays and cheats on you, it could have been with anyone. It wasn't because the AP was exceptional, beautiful, seductive, a predator, whatever. The cheating happened because the WS had something broken in them, they aren't a safe partner. And ultimately, going forward, you have to find a safe partner, not focus a ton of energy looking outwards worrying about the next predator/pretty/whatever fish.

Relatedly, I also see on here a ton of rage directed at the AP and the WS cast as the "victim" - or their own role completely ignored. Which is insane. The WS isn't an culpable adult while the AP has no responsibility for their own choices, but it certainly isn't the reverse either.

So usually when I see things on here, I usually think I get what the person is getting at.

Hell yes. AP actually got off on trying to destroy my M and I hold her just as accountable for the A as my H. She didn't break any vows to me but she behaved in an antisocial way, lied to my face, and used me. I think that she also felt cool about being bad and having a secret and sadly she felt she needed to have a one-up over me. Honestly if I could get a little more objectivity I would feel sorry for her. But I don't.

Lark - but my h's affair wasn't with just anyone. There are NO boundaries in the work place - flirting amongst coworkers was rampant - he'd resisted others before her - but she was just so gorgeous and fun....there was something special about her in his mind - something irresistible - he bawled in my arms because she didn't feel the same for him - ugh - I struggle with the idea that it could've been anyone. It gives me comfort when I believe it - but I feel like I'm gaslighting myself when I do...

I respect the opinion of everyone on this site but I disagree. My husbands AP did apologize and she had ended it when she finally got the truth from him. This was not someone we knew beforehand and would never likely see again.

She is a separated woman herself and while she is guilty of a few things, my H made the vows. How can she be blamed when she knew nothing? If she had continued saying she didn't care he was with me that's different. I think that each situation is different and in some cases the AP may be responsible as well but not in mine.

It isn't saying the WS has an affair with anyone, it isnt' absolving the AP of their part in it. It's a recognition that it wasn't anything *special* about the AP. So laser-focusing on the AP trying to figure out what is so damn special about them is useless.

I don't care how rampant or nonexistant workplace flirting is at my work, if a guy knows I'm married and starts trying to groom me, I'm going to think he's a creep and absolute asshole who is disrespecting me and my husband.. If I *let* him groom me, then I'm not some innocent victim. It isn't anything special *about him* that would cause *me* betray myself and my husband.

I see your point, Lark. I think if the, "It could have been anyone," statement were backed up with such an explanation, it might be more accepted.

While I don't think there was anything necessarily special about my WH's AP, I do think that he had an A with her for reasons other than that she was just there, which is what the, "it could be anyone" statement means to me.

Ultimately, yes, he had an A with her because he wanted to. However, I still believe that he wouldn't have had this A if she hadn't aggressively pursued and groomed him. He had averted many other attempts at As and ONSes. This woman was able to pick up on his weaknesses and use them to her advantage. Yes, he should have had the fortitude to tell her to get lost. He didn't and that is his responsibility.

I see a lot of effort, energy, and thought being focused and expended on the AP. Their looks, their personality, where they are and what they're doing.

I agree that this is not healthy in the long run. I think most times it's fueled by a sense of justice. At least, it was for me. I wanted my WH's AP to have consequences to her actions as well. I think that's right and just. No one knowingly having an A with a committed person should be able to walk away scott(?) free.

I wasn't focused on how she looked or her personality, if she was a "nice" or "good" person or anything like that. I didn't care where she was or what she was doing at any given time (as long as she wasn't with my WH). I did care that she be outed for the type of person she is. Even then, though, I wasn't fully focused on her and not holding my WH accountable for his part.

I confronted my WH's AP several times. I eventually got an apology from her after her BH and other family members found out what she had done. It may have been just another maneuver to try to save herself. But, it may have been true remorse after being faced with the devastation and destruction she had caused in her own life with the people she supposedly loved. I forgave her. I really don't think about her at all anymore.

I hold myself very accountable for what I did to my AP's BS. I broke the mom code, the girl code and the human being code

rachelc, I think you have a somewhat unique perspective. You know firsthand what it is to be the betrayed and the betrayer. Therefore, you know how your actions as an AP have caused pain and destruction to the other BP. Awesome that you can see that and own it.

The was something special about my WH's AP. She didn't care about him being married. She would tell him whatever he wanted to hear. She was desperate enough to do what ever it took. That was what was special about her. Not every woman would do that. There was no boundary she wasn't willing to cross. Promising him threesomes when "they" were together. She twisted herself to meet his fantasies. Gave out ego kibbles by the gallon. Thats it thats all.

I had to go through my stages to understand that. It took a while. I don't think for a lot of BSs that they are able to get there until they process enough to see it. For what its worth I still think she is to blame for her role. I think also she will pay for it her whole life. It just may not be where I can see. She most likely doesn't like herself that much.

The was something special about my WH's AP. She didn't care about him being married. She would tell him whatever he wanted to hear. She was desperate enough to do what ever it took. That was what was special about her. Not every woman would do that. There was no boundary she wasn't willing to cross.

Exactly! Not everyone would do that. I certainly wouldn't. My WH's was also willing to betray her BH. She had done it at least twice before. Sadly, my WH could have been anyone to her. She didn't care one iota about him, just getting what she wanted and he was an easy target.

Again, let me reiterate before a bunch of people start jumping on that statement, that does not in any way absolve my WH of what he did.

I don't think this is a one size fits all issue. Although I've become very aware that there are definite patterns to affairs, I also think that each one is unique.

In my case I don't hold OW equally responsible. I expect her to accept some responsibility, and she does. On the other hand, OW is a 24 year old woman (Assholio is 44, I'm 49) who has issues of her own and I truly believe that, to a degree, she was manipulated.

Assholio did not tell her he was in a relationship. When she found out from a coworker, she called and told him that they would only be friends from that point forward. Well, it didn't end up that way. I think she believed she was in love and one thing led to another and that led to them having sex.

She has, since Dday apologized, sincerely, to me. After I kicked Assholio out of the house I thought they would resume their relationship. Last I heard OW told him she never wants to see him or speak to him again. I think she was deeply hurt by all of this...so, to a degree, she is a victim as well as a perpetrator.

Assholio on the other hand is guilty as charged. He has no excuses and hasn't been victimized in any way unless you count self-victimization...his complete lack of understanding himself.

There are, however, cheaters I've read about here who I think were not as calculating in their affairs...these BS's were to some degree victims of very aggressive AP's. AP's who knew the score and didn't care and pursued relentlessly.

Lots of different people, lots of different situations. That's how I see it.

True, mavis. I should have qualified post by saying this applies to APs who were aware the WP was attached and didn't care. But, at the end of the day, any AP who knows a WP is attached and chooses to be complicit in the A is responsible for his/her part regardless of how they may have been manipulated.

For example, it would seem that many WPs present their committed relationships as nonloving or already over in some way, whether emotionally or physically. That shouldn't matter unless and until those D papers are signed and recorded and/or the unmarried couple has physically and emotionally split, the WP should be off-limits.

Everyone has their issues. At some point, they have to step up and take responsibility for themselves and not allow themselves to be manipulated. My WH had(has) issues. He allowed himself to be manipulated by his AP. He is fully responsible for his part in the A. He is more responsible than his AP for destruction he caused to our M as she is more responsible for the damage she caused to hers. They are both responsible for their actions that contributed to the damage of each other's Ms.

Amen coco

My Husbands OW was my friend. She wanted my life and set out to destroy my marriage. I'll be angry at her for as long as I want regardless of what anyone on here says.

We don't make vows about a lot of things like rape stealing etc but if you do it to someone they are entitle to be angry!

Surely human decency and integrity is a given

Together they are both responsible for the affair. They both were aware of the marriage and chose to act disgracefully.

But only he betrayed me.

She didn't give two shits about me; hell, she didn't know me. On top of that, being unmarried, she had nothing to lose. She's a terrible person to go around meddling in people's marriages but that's the sort of person she is and people like her are everywhere. But beyond being kind to other human beings, she had no responsibilities toward me. I am not the first wife she's helped to hurt and I'm certain I want be the last.

On the other hand, my husband? He made vows to me. He loved me. We built a life together. He was supposed to protect us from monsters like her.

It's like a terrible criminal came to our door and my husband let them in, told them to take anything they wanted, hurt anyone they wanted, and sat back to watch for kicks - only yelling "uncle" when our lives met the breaking point,

Yeah, the A was their doing, but my broken heart was smashed solely by him.

For sure the AP breaks the "human being ethical code", so to speak.

But, if the WS had proper boundaries no one could make them cheat. Take the case of betrayal by resuming an injurious addiction. Is is the fault of the roulette table if a gaming addict betrays his wife by placing a bet?

No doubt my husband's AP is a warped young woman, capable of trampling on other people's lives. But, my husband enjoyed and nurtured the relationship for his own ego kibbles.

But beyond being kind to other human beings, she had no responsibilities toward me.

Is this how you think about yourself? You're only obligation to other human beings is to be kind to them, I assume when you are around them?

She wasn't kind, was she? She was the opposite of kind. Peaceful society does not work if people think it's ok to do whatever they want because they don't know the others who might be hurt by their actions and don't care. The criminal who enters your home and steals from you is responsible for stealing from you whether your WH let her in or not.