SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have so many thoughts and feelings from reading your posts and the emotional responses to them. I am not sure how to express my thoughts except through my own experience; I hope that is alright.

I believed that my husband was the very last person who would cheat on his wife. He had a very strong sense of right and wrong, VERY strong boundaries and much respect for women. he was a VERY involved father and pitched in around the house. I felt completely secure.

However, he was incredibly inept at identifying and expressing emotions. He viewed my having an issue (big or small) as a commentary on who he is and his ability to (or failure to be able to) make me happy, a personal criticism rather than a natural and expected outcome of living with another person. He had NO appropriate understanding of how to work through things together and compromise. He was good at handing many things independently those that were concrete and did not involve feelings, but once he was emotional, the walls went up and he shut down or lashed out. This, in turn caused ME to protect myself emotionally and detach. Little by little, I was living side by sir with him, but we were not connected because I could not accept the emotional abandonment and lack of willingness to work things through to a resolution. He took that as personal rejection, though he could not have ever articulated then what was happening of him.

When his old girlfriend approached him, it was not from a sense of entitlement that he made the destructive choice to respond; it was from a sense of failure with regard to our own relationship, a sense of loneliness though he had created this, he had no insight into that fact, (and forget about how one would rectify that even if he could see how he created it). Once he leaped for the easy feeling of competence he knew he would feel from this old GF who never required much from him in order for him to receive complete pursuit and total adoration, he realized that receiving all that from a person he did not respect and was NOT me did not do the trick. It was not satisfying and did not make him feel any better about himself; in fact it made him feel worse about himself when he truly looked at the low point he had allowed himself to sink to, how lost he allied himself to get and how deeply he damaged the people he loved in the process of attempting to feel good about himself in the most maladaptive way possible.

Why share all of this with you? Well for one thing, it took a while for us to figure all of this out with some great help and hard work. On the surface, it looked like he was just taking an opportunity presented to him because he thought he could and knew he could get away with it. Of course, I knew there was more to it than that, but most of it was not apparent immediately, and that may be why so many people here have suggested that you take time before you make a permanent decision.

It may be that once it all unfolds and you truly understand the dynamics at play in your marriage, her choices and the consequences of them may be too great even with all the knowledge and understanding for you to be able to work through it and remain with her. Of course no one can make that decision for you; and you may feel like all the information that I have would still not be enough for you to choose to try. That is such an individual thing and I did not even have any answers about what I might be able to accept and what might just be too much despite the effort when I agreed to try. But for me, I had a husband who I knew had a history of responding to stress and emotional situations in the angry, shutting down sort of way which was allowed from the time of his childhood without modeling of more healthy ways of deaig with life. These reactions were in sharp contrast to the way he conducted himself otherwise. I knew that he had poor examples or non-existent examples of how to be in a healthy mature relationship since his mother cheated on his father throughout the marriage, involving the children in her "relationships " and lies, ultimately leaving the family for one of her affair partners.

None of that made it alright for him to do what he chose to do. But he fully expected me to leave him when he admitted what he had done. There was no entitlement there either. Regardless of what my decision was going to be, he was determined to get help so that he could figure out what was wrong with him because he did not like what he had become. He needed answers and he knew he needed help to become more healthy; for himself. If I were going to stay, which he desperately wanted, that was a huge bonus and gift but he was committed to learning about what allowed him to make the devastating decision he made.

It is a risk that I will get hurt again by staying and giving it a try. I understand that. Maybe I am too optimistic. I suppose time will tell. I feel fortunately to have had mildly dysfunctional parents who taught me that relationships are hard work, but worth it. Parents who argued but stuck with things until a compromise was work out. Parents who were committed to helping me deal with obstacles and difficulties by problem solving and finding healthy solutions. I came to this marriage pretty well equipped with what it takes to be in a marriage and I know that my husband did not, though he was not aware of his deficiencies until his journey in therapy after his infidelity. My counselor says that my husband is fortunate that I am a compassionate person who can see things from other people's side, striving for understanding of their behaviors and motivations. She thinks that goes a long way towards my willingness to try. Maybe that is mental gymnastics? I don't know, but it is part of who I am and who I have always been.

I remember in your post that you stated that you remained supportive and by your wife's side through some difficult things even more so than others in our life. To see that this was met with betrayal in return must feel like a punch in the gut (understatement, I know). But you show yourself to be compassionate in your portrayal of your relationship with your wife. Having been loyal and by her side through thick and thin only to have her cheat on you is a trauma that cannot be understated. How could you not be reeling from this discovery? Your instinct about whether or not you can move forward with her may be spot on. But it may also be spot on today, and evolving in the future. When they talk about the infidelity roller coaster, it really is an accurate description of what happens to our emotions through this process no matter what we choose to do going forward. What she has done hurt you to the core and you are doing what you need to do in order to protect yourself from ever being this hurt again. That is important. You need to take care of you right now. I began to write out what we make each pay period, what our monthly expenses are, what we could cut and how were were going to divide it up in order to maintain two house holds the very night I found out that my husband had cheated on me. It was a given that I would not be staying in any sort of marriage with him. His actions from that very first moment on, and the fact that we had children together caused me to to pull back and make no decisions right away, giving no commitment and offering no promise. Maybe you will feel the very same way a year from now that you feel today. I can understand why you or anyone might (though it don't matter if I can understand or not).

I just want to say that no matter what you choose; stay or go, you will still need to work through the effects of what has been done to your life as a result of her betrayal so that you can be the healthiest and happier person one can be after having been blindsided as we all have. My counselor asked me, "What is the downside in having your remorseful and loving husband there supporting you through it? That choice does not mean that you have made a choice to stay in your marriage; no commitment, just support as you work through what has been done to you life, even if he was the one responsible for it. Helping you through it is the least you deserve." It is just a thought... Good luck to you; none of this is easy, no matter what we ultimately choose. (ImGoneByTheDown)

Hey Eric and other well wishers thank you for your support it does help. The Wayne's World gif was awesome 😁

I don't always post because this stuff upsets me but this guy thinks like I do. So many people think there is something wrong with you for tossing away a woman for screwing other men and not looking back. Maybe just maybe that factors into their decision to do it or maybe not, but I think they should expect their spouse to look for something better than a cheating Ho!

Better stop a rant is starting to surface

I think it is sad that people that come here for support get bashed for not wanting to reconcile. It should be the choice of the BS not the choice of people here trying to push there own agenda. I know for me I tried for years and It just didn't work out for me.

OP I support you in what ever you decide to do. Know that your not alone out there.

C

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:57 AM, October 22nd (Thursday)]

Curious9...

No one is getting "bashed"...we've been monitoring this thread for two days now.

If you see something differently please PM me so we can address it.

lol SG you're a great guy to be sure. I read a few of these forums and your thread is the one that settled me on this place.

I look at you as the patron saint of JFO not because of the decision that you made, but that you made a decisive decision, concentrated on your family and then concentrated on healing yourself.

The biggest thing to fix in JFO is people fighting themselves. The greatest tragedy are those who fight themselves every step of the way are those who should be surrendering to themselves. Their decisions are usually not consistent with the real person hiding inside of them somewhere. If JFO can't help folks get through the initial shock and then work on introducing people to the real person who lives inside of them somewhere, then we've done our jobs.

It takes some people five minutes, it takes some five years. Some people don't have the opportunity because their waywards force their hands, some have the opportunity and choose not to take it. Everyone is different. Some people never find that person, and that's sad. We only live once.

I agree with Eric. People need to battle themselves first and often times don't win those battles. And yes, SG is like the patron saint here. He agreed with you completely, and he is one of decisive action.

Yes, Eric, Being true to oneself. Not fighting, surrendering.

That's what I was referring to when I said I envy the clarity. The ability to really KNOW oneself, project what you will be able to live with, and making a decision straight away.

Doesn't mean I don't think my marriage is on the road to reconciliation. Doesn't mean I'm not being true to myself. Just means I envy the clarity.

So many people think there is something wrong with you for tossing away a woman for screwing other men and not looking back.

Sorry ... I know I decided to drop out of this thread, but someone has to respond to this.

IMO, that's a serious misreading of most the posting that the OP and a few others object to.

1) The vast majority of SIers, even those in R, are fully supportive of D as an immediate response to an A, if that's what the BS wants to do.

2) The vast majority of SIers, even those in R, see R as a gift that the BS is under NO obligation to offer.

As I wrote yesterday, somehow I don’t understand the OP's writing, and he doesn’t seem to understand mine, so it’s not profitable for either of us to communicate at this point, but I simply cannot let this misreading go by without objection.

***********************************************

To those who value decisiveness above all, I believe George Custer was consistently decisive throughout his career. Just sayin'....

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:50 PM, October 19th (Monday)]

ImGoneByTheDown : Please filter out those who seem to only support attempting to reconcile. Many of us BH's applaud both your insight into who you are and your courage to be true to yourself.

I'm not going to tell you my story other than my wife had both a ONS and then moved in for a few weeks with another guy. After a few weeks she begged me to come home and I did. The biggest mistake of my life and I will regret it to the day I die. We had a 5 year-old boy at that time but I wish I had understood that I didn't need to live with his mother to be a great father. Neither do you.

So your wife sucked some guys cock but didn't actually fuck him? Really? You have it right when you say that splitting this hair doesn't mean a thing. Sex is sex and she had plenty with him. Also, all cheaters lie. If she admits to a blowjob than she likely gave him a rimjob before he fucked her in the ass. Ok, that might be over the top but the point is she is lying & minimizing about the sex - they always do. She'll take the truth to her grave unless you find out the facts completely on your own.

You came here to get reaction to your seemingly harsh decision to divorce your wife after a ONS. Ok, my reaction is nothing but praise and envy. Lots of people on this and other forum's say that a ONS isn't so bad and they could probably forgive a slip like that. I say bullshit - it's cheating and has a "slut" element to it that makes a BH actually feel shame FOR his cheating wife. Yeah, on top of all of the hurt and anger and the stunned shock he feels on d-day, he is usually ashamed of and for his WW and her disgusting, slutty behavior. So this nonsense about a ONS not being "as bad" as a LTA just isn't true for many, many men.

I recommend that you find a counselor and continue to focus on your own, personal recovery from this horrible trauma. You can be a wonderful father to your children without living with their mother. You have a much, much better chance to heal when you turn your back and walk away from WW because you will simply not have nearly as many those horrible visions of her mouth on his dick when you don't have to look at her face or hear her voice every day. Physical separation helps you complete the process of disengaging from her.

Keep to your plan - you're on the right path for you. I wish you nothing but strength and healing.

So this nonsense about a ONS not being "as bad" as a LTA just isn't true for many, many men.

Amen! I sure hope I haven't given anyone that impression, my wife in particular.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:01 AM, October 22nd (Thursday)]

First of all, sorry in advance for the typos and mistakes as I'm typing from my phone. I promise to correct them later. Now, before I'll adress the various questions and topics raised, I want to give you an update. Well, she took a polygraph on her own initiative to approve her version and passed it. It covered various areas but the main emphacise was on the differenet aspect of the sexual encounter to "soothe my fears of inadequacy", to prove she did stop and that it was really the only time she did it as well as other questions. Ha, Lmao! She wanted to "soothe my fears of inadequacy". She really does not get it. Those were not the fears of inadequacy that makes me rage about what she did; I am very confident in my sexuality; it is the fact that another man touched my wife and my wife touched another man sexually. If she did not had an intercourse, if it was indeed a complete disaster, if she did not enjoyed it as with me, as it seems to be, just shows how pathetic she was so that she was willing to risk and to lose everything I give her, not only sexually, but in each and every other aspect by trading dirty sex with an inadequate loser not for money but cheap attention. What makes me also rage in addition to that is that by risking this everything she showed me her real face of what zero respect, ingratitude, how she hadn't valued me, how for granted she took me and how at the end I meant nothing to her. Well, now justice will be served, she's losing everything and for what, for nothing she got out of it. This woman is just pathetic, disgusting and dispicably cheap. If she tought it would stop divorce, wrong! Now, I'm even more determined than ever. I am planing soon to start a thread in the divorce forum.

SG

Thanks a lot. It's like you're reading my mind. You took the words out of my mouth. This is so true, my wife IS now damaged goods, she IS second, third or fourths class I would add. I am worth, can have and have it all to have a first class faithful woman at my side. The fact she didn't have another man's penis in her vagina is irrelevant; she had it in her mouth. I can't see, hear, look, kiss and have that mouth touch my body. Never!

Unhinged

First of all, you must discern between yearning to be happy and having entitlement; between a legitimate approach to achieve true happiness vs. false coping mechanisms which only enhance suffering and the sense of entitlement. While the wish to be happy is the most basic, natural, healty, noble and honorable response to that basic experience of suffering as an inevitable part of human existenxe I mentioned in my previous response, as standing oppose to this entitlement is a wrong coping mechanism rooted in ignorance to create that happiness and falsely soothe those lingering feelings of whatever kind of suffering it is may it be disappointment, stress, distress, feelings of failure, loneliness, being unloved, being stuck, being unrepected really from the most subtle to the most extreme forms of suffering, all of which basically fits into that schema.

Now, whether it is directly and obviously entitlement or indirectly a form of not coping well with whatever form of sudfering one has - failures in life failures and difficulties in a relationship, feelings of loneliness, of being unloved, unrespected and so on - it's still that false coping mechanism and the entilement rooted in it and that it is. Well, here's a great discovery. All of those feelings and problems are not unique to cheaters; what's unique is their extreme ignorance, the twisted perception of life and reality, as well as the resulting entitlement. Let's admitt it, most probably, the BS had the same feelings, if not the exact ones or different ones and if not at that point so at the other; I don't know any human being that have never felt that way. Yet, of course it was only the cheater that had done so. Why? Once again, entitlement, evil, immorality, lack of coping skills and so on.

In the same way as most people do not have that kind of entitlement, not all poeple that have entitlements, have the entitlement to cheat. In the bottom line, it is so because entitlement must be accompannied by at least three other factors, namely good sense of ill will, not giving a shit about the loved one's consequences, be indifferent and uncaring, even calous about it, then lack of morality, which holds entitlement in check and at least reduces it and of course healthy coping mechanisms as another back up security measurement. This is why I said before thar good poeple do bad things; evil poeple cheat. At least without that evil, an unwilling to consider the consequences, entitlement could not be taken this one step further to abuse, that horrible evil and thus infidelity would be impossible. Alongside with entitlement, evil as well as immorality, lack of coping skils and ignorance, are all inherent parts of infidelity and the cheater's tool kit.

Now, you mentioned also integrity and I'm grateful for that. Let me tell you what I undetstand and what it means for me being a man of integrity. It is doing what is right what is correct and abstain from wrong doing also when no one sees you. My wife is not a woman of integrity and she's broken that golden rule in the most despicable ways. Thus she is not my equal, neither in terms of morality nor in authenticity and integrity and she can't undo it to be my equal. Due to my work and proffesion I had many such opportunities. I have never done this; she did. The other thing is the question of change. I didn't say poeple can't change at all; I said they can't change their persona. Their are aspects poeple can and can't change. What they change is a different aspect.Thus without enforcing boundaries, without facing the consequences and seriously dealing with suffering, cheaters are unable to change. The bottom line is that chance a cheater will change in the same relationship without this is like gambling in a casino. Once in a million you will see the unicorn; normally the house wins and your's is destroyed. If some poeple want to gamble with their life I'm fine with that. I have better and more important things to do with it.

notthevictem

You asked me what bothers me most. Well, it's not the money. I'm not a very material person. I know I WILL be screwed financially in the divorce. This is the price you pay as a man. I am fine with that not because it is fair but because their is no price for freedom. However, it's not only this, not only the wish to make the process smooth and see her as less as possible but despite my anger and other unhealthy emotions I work to get rid off, I do not hate and harbour any ill will towards her. I do wish her and of course my children well, but now I'm concentrating on my happiness which does not include her anymore in my life.

What bothers me most is to lose my children, my daughters and my son due to alienation. If she'll do this to me it will literally kill me and she knows this. It is not something that is relevant right now but in my opinion she does not cope well with what happens and I fear that in the future she might take revenge on me in form of alienating me from the kids. It is not sure from what she says but she nevertheless in my opinon does not cope well with the situation. I have read about many cases and know others in person. You can google the topic and you'll see it has epidemic proportions. It's terrifying. Other technical issues might be solved and I will seek support in the divorce forum, but from what I read there is not much to do about it.

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 10:01 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

yearsofpain25

Wow, I find your post informative, least to say. Actually, even very enlightening as there are not only a lot of elements I can I can take and use approaching divorce but also because it reaffirm a few things I found out and was thinking to do when the wheels of divorce will be set in motion. Anyway, I haven't mention and written about it, because it quite an unconventional approach to infidelity and how to cope with it. I have less read it in professional publication but have seen posters talking about it in different forums. I think it is a valid observation and actually found you talking about it just in different ways and maybe terminology.

More specifically, I'm talking about the usual division that is made into forgiveness and reconciliation. Meaning that if you reconcile it means that by definition you give your spouse a second chance, stay married and under the same roof. However, you and other have pointed to another option that I think is correct. Namely, that this process is threefold.

1. Forgiveness (does not requires you to stay)

2. Reconciling at a certain level (which you call parental)

3. Reconciliation that means giving the cheater and marriage a second chance and stay together

I want to say the following. I know for sure that one day I'll forgive my wife. I have a lot of negative emotions towards her from anger, resentment, bitterness and many more but I don't think hate is so striking. In fact, not as my wife but a human being I can feel some basic empathy to her suffering and love. For sure, for me it has zero reflection on my decision on divorce. Yet, I do think I want and will forgive her.

The next thing is the possibility to reconcile without maintaining the relationship and after divorce. This is harder for me but I think that under certain circumstances, with certain boundaries and means of protection from her I could think about such an option. It could be possible and I think I have to spend some reflection on it. It would nean that we would maintain more contact, see each other more and so on. I haven't thought about it, but I will do it for sure as for the children as you say that's important.

The last is what normally understood as reconciliation which means to stay together and giving the cheater and the marriage another chance. This is not an option for me. It won't happen. As I said the marriage and the relationship was done the moment she got naked in front of another man, was physically intimate with him and the fact whether she had intercourse or not is irrelevant for me. As I said once that happened it was all over , it's done and I'm. Yet, I do think you've hit the nail and are completely right about the two first option. I know how to deal with the first one, but would appreciate to hear your advice on the second one

Thanks

ImGoneByTheDown

As others have pointed out, I am amazed for your clarity. Despite I don’t fully agree with your dissertation and feel pity for your wife, I feel/believe/think you are doing the right thing.

I share your point of view that any kind of cheating is an automatic deal breaker. I didn’t get to that conclusion as fast as you did. In my case after so many DDays while asking her why, she told me the magic words “Don’t you ever get tired of begging?” from that moment everything changed… Never the less took me nearly 18 years to confirm that it is the only way I could ever live with myself. This standard (moral, psychological, personal, you name it) is the difference between spending the rest of your life your life actually living or waste the rest of your life surviving…

This is just my opinion; I don’t have any more than my full admiration for the BS trying to R or already R´d and the same for the successful FWS. But is nice to know that are more people, (You, TIMETOREACT, SG, etc) that share my POV about infidelity zero tolerance clause as the only way to live.

A couple of questions. Did your wife plan the ONS? Was she having an EA with OM? I can’t understand how spouse have a ONS with a friend of a friends without planning it. I know it doesn’t matter but the intentionality of the affair IMO is as bad as the actions that have taken place.

Sorry for the grammar and orthography, English is not my first language.

Good luck,

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 4:26 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

Thanks for the update. Other than advising you to set up counselling for yourself and your kids to help you all cope with the betrayal, divorce,..., there's not much I have to say. Oh, maybe just that you should carry a VAR on you at all times -> she might turn desperate when she sees you're really going for divorce.

Best wishes

If anything, the horror I'm going through has really opened my eyes, so those are the types of a persona that are able to abuse their loved ones with such an atrocious type of evil. I previously really believed that we all could make this type, of how cheaters call it, "mistakes". Yet now I know it isn't so. It takes a special kind of a malevolent human being to be able to ruin your loved one's life, endanger their mental health as well as maybe their future as a whole and break their homes and families. Today, I also understand it's not a mistake or a "poor" choice; that's cheater think 101! By not giving a shit on the possible outcome and consequences to your loved ones, not only to your SO but also the extended family including your own children, it is at least a conscious act of evil. From spending the time since dday reading and researching, I'm simply astonished about the similarities all those cheating stories show. It always contains an extremely hedonistic partner who could excuse any kind of evil behavior on his part. Now, I'm not only learning to watch for those "rationalization masters" in romantic relationships, but as for myself am actually thinking about giving up completely on love and relationships because they probably do not exist. If she was capable of doing this, I can't trust any woman that she wouldn't be able too, although rationally I definitely know and understand that not all women are like that. The problem is that the abyss created by her cheating between my mind and heart seems unsurpassable.

I am so sorry for what happened to you. I am new here myself so not sure how much help I can give. but from the support I received and reading the healing library, you are on the right track.

The above really caught my attention as I too wondered the same thing. My wife of 16 years turned out to be a serial cheater. I was completely blind sided - never thought in 1000 years she would do that or was even capable of doing such a vile thing to me and our 4 children! What kind of person is even capable of such cruelty? Someone very selfish, self-centered and unloving. My wife still says she loves me, but the words are hollow to me. You just DO NOT do something like that to somebody you really love. It's not a one time mistake, it's not an "uh-oh, I messed up, sorry." It is like you said a deliberate and self conscious act of betrayal. And the have no idea how much hurt and pain it inflicts.

Anyways, sorry to inject my own situation and feelings but I felt drawn to your sentiments. I too have wondered if love is real. My faith tells me it is so I am not giving up on it but at this point, the only love i know to be real and true is the love of Jesus Christ and my children. I'm sure you feel the same for your kids and recommend just being there for them the best you can, that is my plan. Good luck and God bless!

Hi Mrhealed

The thing is that initially I was not interested in hearing her BS so I also didn't see a reason to ask her for a polygraph because I divorcing her anyway. As I said she did the polygraph on her own initiative. I suppose to try to manipulate me into reconciliation and put me under more pressure to reconcile. There are some aspects that I may not know but she's said that if I want to verify more of my own questions she would not hesitate to do another test. Having past the first one I'm quite sure she'll pas the other ones. I mean having zero reflection on the divorce, putting her through unnecessary tests would be mean on my side. Anyway, I think I can still answer your question of why it's possible by recalling an experience I had, not of infidelity, but actually preventing it on my side.

Anyway, long time ego I used to work in a particular working place with very toxic social environment. Poeple there were encouraging one another shamelesly to have affairs, flinges and so on. They tried that naturally with me. At the beginning I tried to do my work and have minimum contact with them. Yet, they tried and kept pushing. At some point I had enough and left the job. Now, what it means that under certain circumstances when there is social pressure, when the person is weak, no coping skills and lacks boundaries, when he has a loose morality, when there might be alcohol involved (one does not need to be drunken) and so on one might not be strong enough, give in and be swept. However, cheater use it normally as a manipulation to say those are the whys and they'll never do this again, while the truth is that they sweep under the rug what I described in my previous posts.

You see I did first hand what cheaters normally try to do at the end when it's too late. I went NC and when I saw it was not enough I left my job. Having worked on myself prior to the possibilty of cheating, this is why I'm sure I will not cheat after working on myself to prevent cheating. My wife didn't do it and cut all ties with them afterwards. I told her I don't like them, she didn't want to hear what I was saying then, now she's getting what she asked and was looking for. Justice is served

Anyway, something like that I suppose was involved with my wife yet for me it's not interesting because the real reasons are those I outlined above thus for me any chance at reconciliation is doomed. She blew another man; that's over. As I told here many times "think before you act; actions have consequences". I told her this too and she knew what I think about it. She reaps now what she's cultivated over time. Anyway, it's not my business to fix her; she's a grown up woman and must come to that on her own

I think fear of ww alienating my kids was a huge factor for me in considering and ultimately choosing R, so I'm totally sympathetic to that fear. One book that I read that may be helpful to you is called "Divorce Poison" and it has strategies for counter-acting it (somewhat, of course).

Hey GoneBy,

While I don't agree with everything you've written, and, to be honest, you might not even agree with all you've written after a little time has passed, this caught my attention:

Thus she is not my equal, neither in terms of morality nor in authenticity and integrity and she can't undo it to be my equal.

This is EXACTLY how I felt about my wife, but I added my intellectual and emotional superiority to the list too.

I applaud you for doing what is right for you, and therefore right for your kids.