SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It is apparent to me now that she truly was head over heals in love with him and could not stop herself.

This isn't true. No one held a gun to her head and forced her to do these things so yes, she could have stopped. Her mental health issues do not force her to make these choices. Love isn't this mystical force that grips you and forces you to do anything. It's a choice. She needs to be held 100% accountable even in your mind.

NP5, if I can be really honest for a minute after reading your story since I've been on SI for the last couple of years, I can see in part why Edith might feel like it's okay to be dishonest. There's quite a bit of dishonesty in the things you say too. You've been here 2 years and you still believe one of the biggest myths commonly debunked that she didn't have control over her actions during the A? It's a bit hard for me to swallow. Either you've degressed in knowledge somehow or you say it because it's what you want to believe it's true. Is that why you say her A is the one thing that makes you leave? Because you want her to believe it even though it may not be true? Either way, it's a lot to think about and I really hope you've been seeing someone for Co-D and talking through things like this because it's difficult to see how either of you can move forward if you're enabling her behavior by giving her a convenient out for accountability. You may believe she will never do this again but why wouldn't she if she doesn't have any control over what she does when in love? What's to stop her from falling in love and going off the rails again? Either she has control and can stop this from happening or she has no control and is at risk of doing it again. You can't have both. See what I mean?

NP I have followed your story from the get go and the one thing that has held true through the entirety of it is that you have no real line in the sand and no real ability to hold your wife responsible for her actions.

You are strangely arrogant and codependent. I hope you get the full truth from Edith yet somehow think she will never be 100% truthful. She has had the aability to manipulate you. You will not be able to R and save your M and rebuild it without the full truth of her actions.

The first rule of R is NO MORE LIES, this includes white lies and lies of omission. Is she capable of bearing her soul and all its secrets?

You can't even decide if you want to save your M until you have all the pieces of the puzzle.

It's like informed consent.

She confessed to more encounters than she can remember.

We knew this all along NP5. We were trying to get you to see this. She has been lying to you for mooonths. Still. She did all of this on purpose and now that she sees you may leave her( which she probably doesn't truly believe because you found this out and you are still there) she is letting more out.

She could help herself. She chose not to

I really thought that she loved you NP5..I don't know if she does for sure, but I know she doesn't respect you. How can you love someone you don't respect? You really have some hard decisions ahead of you. I pray you make some wise ones.

You will not be able to R and save your M and rebuild it without the full truth of her actions.

The first rule of R is NO MORE LIES, this includes white lies and lies of omission. Is she capable of bearing her soul and all its secrets?

You can't even decide if you want to save your M until you have all the pieces of the puzzle.

It's like informed consent.

Yes, I know. I've been investigating and pleading for the truth for 27 Months now. Last TT was 26 months after the first DDay. She continued the affair as I was pleading for her to stop.

It would have been easier if she had just left with him. Up and abandoned the kids and moved in with him. At least then I wouldn't have thought I was going crazy. At least she couldn't pretend that I was the cause of all the pain and suffering. At least I would have known the truth from the start and could have accepted it.

And if she would have come back and asked for forgiveness, at least then I could have been honest with myself about what she did. She was gone and now she has returned. I don't even know how long she was gone. I don't know when she returned or if she has fully returned. I have been lied to for so long I don't even trust her confessions.

So yes it's been a horrible 27 months, and I don't even know if it's over yet.

We knew this all along NP5. We were trying to get you to see this

Yes, and I was the last one to know. This was because I could not believe that she is who she now is.

She says that it is all done. That she is not a liar, not an adulterer, that she will be the best wife from now on. Granted that what you do RIGHT NOW defines you more than your past. But I cannot see her intentions. Only she can.

I am left to take a regression of data points. All I have right now are data points that depict a lying, cheating adulterer. I'm slowly getting in new data that will paint a new picture. Hopefully it will be a loving, caring, remorseful and faithful wife.

Until then I am in limbo because disclosure of the affair did not seem to have an impact in having her stop her affair. She only stopped when she wanted to, when she had had enough and was done. She lied until she decided she was done, not because I discovered the affair or I asked her to stop. I was never part of the consideration to stop. She only cared about what she felt, not at all about what I felt.

NP5

What do you think?

Has she shown ANY sign of not be an abuser any more? Of not being bat-shit crazy (hiding pictures of your family because you are not 100% into R)? Of not manipulating? Of telling the whole truth (which we both know she won't provide about the night in question)? Of doing anything a spouse worthy of R should be doing?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but clearly, I don't see the good side of Edith. From my perspective, she is the woman who told you she went to IC to "learn to live with you" while she was screwing OM on a regular basis and spitting in your face while you were begging her to stop her affair. That's pretty vile by any measure. In fact, it is hideously vile.

So something has to keep you holding on to her, despite the cruelty she has perpetuated on you and your kids. There must be something you see in her that makes you believe she is worth this hell. So what is it?

I really would like to hear something positive about her, because from this side, I would not wish her on my worst enemy.

Breaking up a marriage because of infidelity isn't a sign of strength or weakness.

Setting a template for a healthy marriage for his five children is a burden that we all receive when we make the decision to have children. It's up to NP5 as a parent to decide when that is and 'how she is going to act in the future' isn't a variable any longer. Humans act differently while in survival mode.

You need space, and you're not getting at it because she is manipulating you. She fears exposure more than anything and she fears you being alone almost as much. When you are alone you cannot be manipulated. She knows that she can White Knight you back whenever she wants.

It's time to do two things:

1. Finally draw that line in the sand. She can still do her formal thing, but right NOW she can answer if she has been 100% truthful. Prepare divorce papers and have them ready to go, you can no longer live like this my friend.

2. Poly her. I know you have some great questions that you're holding back on posting here

Then decide to divorce her. And don't place divorce on the outcome of the poly. Even your IC is angling you to prepare for divorce, you're surrounded by people telling you that the situation...isn't good even absent continued lies.

You paint a timeline for recovery which would be optimistic under the best of circumstances

Humans, like all animals, are creatures of habit. Most of us find it very difficult to change our ways, and that's why reconciliation is a gamble. We really have to take a good look at our spouses and determine whether they are a good candidate for reconciliation. To do this, you need to examine past behaviour and ask yourself was the A out of character, or has there been a series of bad behaviours over a prolonged period? The other thing to consider, does Edith believe she needs to change, and does she want to change?

I don't doubt that Edith is saying the right things, and she might even be doing some of the right things, but I question her motivation.

So something has to keep you holding on to her, despite the cruelty she has perpetuated on you and your kids. There must be something you see in her that makes you believe she is worth this hell. So what is it?

Why is she worth it? Because she is a wonderful, loving, caring, passionate, giving, soul who has stuck with me through a lot of hard times. She has supported me in good times and bad and really works so hard to raise her children well.

She snapped for a time. She just went 180 and did some terrible things during a midlife crises. She has been having a very hard time coming to terms with what she did and admitting it to me, but mainly herself. She sets such a high standard for herself that she just can't believe she did what she did. She has told me she is desperate to undo or take it back, to not to have done it.

I believe her!

And through all of this she comes back to being her wonderful giving self, full of life and love.

You all don't know her like I do. I harp on the bad, and leave out the good. There has been so much good and we have built a wonderful life together. I'm going to see this through as long as I can and make the best of circumstances. Our children are growing up beautiful and moral and happy. Recent events have hurt us badly, but overall we have been on an amazing journey. I just need to make sure that I'm not acting out of passion or rage.

I will do what is best for my family, and I do hope that Edith will realize that she's got a good thing here and that she will, as she has told me, be the best wife ever from now on.

Edith has read the thread and was very distraught by the content. She feels really down and hopeless. I sometimes come here to vent, to prevent myself from going postal on the OM or taking it out on my wife or kids. I hope she sees that I don't have any friends (that I know of) that have gone through this. Talking to others about this gives me little response other than, "Were pulling for you!" "Hang in there!" "Hoping things get better!" "You're such a wonderful family, I will pray for you."

I have needed to talk some of this stuff out with those who have been in my shoes or her shoes. As best I know, none of my counselors or acquaintances have been through what I have. So you all give a unique and valued perspective.

I am going dark some more to do the poly, the disclosure, and then the holidays. Edith has asked to have the poly done ASAP, and it looks like next week will work. I am asking you to keep us both and our successful reconciliation in your prayers.

NP5

She snapped for a time. She just went 180 and did some terrible things during a midlife crises.

NP5, I'm sorry but I just don't believe this because she shows signs of a serious personality disorder and no one with a personality disorder wakes up one day with it. It's always a series of behaviors that started in their childhood. She didn't just have a midlife crisis that somehow came down with a serious mental illness. There's always been redflags that were either ignored or glossed over. They may have been hidden from you during your deployments. Either way, they've been there and I know this from experience. Yes, she can genuinely be all of those wonderful things but as soon as she gets stressed out, she turns into a completely different person. It doesn't matter if someone is the best partner 90% of the time when that 10% is extremely unhealthy.

Our children are growing up beautiful and moral and happy.

Has Edith sat down, apologized, and explained to her daughter that she had cover for her that what she did was wrong and that her daughter should never ever do what she did? Has she ever said negative things about you to the kids and corrected them by saying it was wrong of her to do that? Has she ever explained to them that her A was horribly wrong and that they should never repeat her mistakes? Those are the actions of someone raising their kids morally. All of those things she did wrong need to be addressed if they haven't already otherwise your kids are going to make their own assumptions about it and they aren't always going to be the moral ones especially since Edith has not experienced many consequences for those bad choices.

Edith has asked to have the poly done ASAP, and it looks like next week will work. I am asking you to keep us both and our successful reconciliation in your prayers.

I may giving you a lot of 2x4s but I am hoping that she passes the poly and that you come out of this having healed some. We do care despite saying what you don't want to hear. Take that well needed break and good luck.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 1:55 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

Edith has read the thread

I am so amazed at how open you are with her. Including sharing the deepest thoughts you have and the response you get to them in your threads

Yet she chooses not to be as open with you and has drawn out being open about this situation for 2 years. BPD can explain a lot if that's the case. If that is so, I hope she gets the help she needs. I hope she passes the poly too. We here support you and would support her too if she came here with the right intentions.

She was here briefly,but she didn't like how we would call her out on some things that didn't add up. We are not professionals,that's true. We have more than that though,we have the experience of how to get through and how to go through betrayal. I hope the discovery techniques and poly are successful. I hope you keep your eyes open and think more with your mind than your heart. Good luck

I knew you knew Edith was reading this thread,by the first few paragraphs of your last post.

She's upset. Well, isn't she always when the truth is being said about her deplorable actions?

And here you come....to sooth her wounded ego...to play the white knight, to her damsel in distress....the abused defending his abuser.

You're in denial...Your children have been affected. You may not see signs now...But one day, you will. I'm sure you're familiar with yearsofpain, and his story. He's been very open about how it feels.to.have to tell your father that their mother is cheating on him.

I see a bunch rugsweeping and denial on her part. She says not a liar...But continues to be caught in lies. She says she's not an adulterer, so she's not. She love bombs you, and you believe that's remorse.

She has a very long way to go.

Good luck to you both, NotPerfect. I believe you are much braver than many have suggested.

As for the highly judgemental advice to "grow a pair", you handled that more graciously than it deserved.

Edith has read the thread and was very distraught by the content.

She had a legit boyfriend behind the back of you and five beautiful children, has mentally attacked the one guy who has stuck with her through thick and thin, has put her family in danger from sexually transmitted diseases and who knows what else, brought a truly evil person into the family and left female children alone with him, while you were home worrying about marriage problems she was worrying about what color underwear to wear from him, she fell for the oldest lines in the world from a real-life predator and somehow came out of it worse than he did, while you spent hours on si.com and she damn well can't plead ignorance continued to trickle truth and gas light, continues to bring her "best friend" who helped her hide the affair from you into your own damn house and involve her with five perfect children whose lives that she helped try to ruin, who has gotten physically violent with you,

There is only one of you who has stuck through anything through thick and thin. It's not BPD. It's not a midlife crisis. She did it because she damn well wanted to and her wants became before your and the kids needs. She loved that damn penniless, homely, nasely, frog-looking loser so much that all of those things didn't matter.

That might all be in the past, but let's call a duck a duck. If she feels distraught then maybe deep down there is a good person trying to get out. I hope for her sake that person gets out, but it won't be before you're ruined and your poor kids have an awful template by which to navigate their own adult lives one day.

Being distraught is something she should have been 730 days ago.

You know I think you're a great dude, I'm legitimately pissed off for you. I'm sorry if it shows. I wear this stuff on my sleeve.

[This message edited by eric1 at 2:02 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

Wow NP it was obvious on your last post that Edith had read this.

I have to go with the Abusee rescuing the abuser again.

Since I have taken heat for saying what I'm thinking, I will attempt to put this in kinder terms......

Your wife is a master manipulator. She still has not come completely clean with you. Yet you "know" that she will never do it again. What has she truly discovered as to why she allowed herself to make the choices she made, and I am not buying the MLC for all of this. How in the world can you justify her continued lies, and manipulations, and blameshifting on a MLC. If the MLC is over why isn't she owning her choices? Why hasn't she confessed everythiing and anything......

What I see is you rugsweeping because you are so CoD you can't stand to see her mad at you. It's really in your interest to stop excusing her, and hold her accountable, and if you are not ready or able to do that, focus on yourself. Because despite her words, I guarantee without further change and full ownership of actions you will find yourself in the same situation again at some point.

You know my first rule of R.

NO MORE LIES.

This includes lies to ones self. I see you doing this in your last post.

It's ok to go dark because E is upset but know this, and I mean it with all my heart and soul. We all everyone who has followed this from day one and chosen to let thie painful thing be part of our lives really do care about you, and your kids.

We are tough, and in your face because we know that is what it takes for you to see reality.

I hope you can one day have a healthy whole and M and family. But it is going to take E coming full circle and own her choices,and share it all with you.

Hi np5

First. I am sorry Edith is still reading your posts. This makes it difficult for you to benefit since you not only have to edit everything you say. But you also have to deal with her reactions. Instead of the focus being on YOU, your thoughts, your feelings, and reflections and advice... It becomes about Edith. Her distress and her.

If she wants to be on the site. It would be far more useful to both of you if she regularly participated (actual participation) on her own account. That way she can have a section all about her and her work

Second. Np5. Why is the poly happening AFTER this formal disclosure? Edith has a track record of parking lot confessions, trying to beat polygraphs, and o lt revealing any truth about YOUR life AFTER she knows she failed.

Moving on happens with healing. Healing happens with first having the full truth so you can grieve and process it. You can't grieve what you don't know. and you can't move on when you haven't even moved through it.

Third. Why is this meeting involving you talking about marital issues? Edith spent 2 years of MC telling you all about your issues. Why is a disclosure meeting being shared with marital issues? Edith has a track record if making her affair about you. This shouldn't be perpetuated in MC

For edith, since you are reading this :

Is your ap still at your children's school and camp? If so, why are your children still there? Your husband and your children do not deserve that kind of presence in what should be a place of safety. Your children should be able to focus on their music, not the soap opera of the A.

Also. Are you still friends with the woman who helped hide your affair and foster your destructive behaviors?

Ah np5

She snapped for a time. She just went 180 and did some terrible things during a midlife crises.

Don't do yourself or edith that kind of injustice. Don't minimize and rugs weep it.

One of the hardest things my husband has had to come to grips with is that this wasn't some random breakdown. His A was a manifestation of a dark part of who he IS. And until he starts to identify and work on that, it will remain

NP5, how is your individual counselling going? Also, how is the kids' family/children's therapy going?

Best wishes

NP5,

You said this

"Oct 4....

It is devastating. I am in deep pain again, but at least I feel I'm getting the truth now. I can build from that.

I don't know how you overcome that. She doesn't deserve another chance.

However, you are going to give it to her so good luck.

I do agree with Tushnurse, Eric1 and Nekonameda on this one. Lark and Confused too.

You are protecting yourself by focusing on your kids but that really isn't protecting yourself fully.

The limbo will continue on as I fear you'll never get over what she has done but I fully support you in your efforts not to get screwed over again.

Edith is a very lucky woman to have you. You have clearly deserved better. There is a part of me who wonders what you are really thinking since she reads everything you write here.

Godspeed.

[This message edited by Western at 7:45 AM, November 12th (Thursday)]

NP5

I am praying for you. But you need a healthy dose of wake-up.

TushNurse nailed it in a simple question. Has she taken any steps to extricate OM from the lives of your children?

Quick Answer: (I suspect) Nope.

Further answer: She likely is happy having him in her back pocket, always in the wings. Having him at music camp is just that potential she always has to get things going with him again in a minute.

Further answer: She likely enjoys the pain that causes you. Or at least she has enjoyed causing you pain in the past.

Further answer: You are a controlling asshole if you ever take a step against the OM. She knows she has you there.

Look, I know we have told you this a million times. Listen to your gut. You know she is still lying. You know she only regrets being caught, not what she actually did. You know she is not doing anything to help your healing except what you force from her.

Again, I will ask you to answer honestly to yourself - WHY are you putting yourself through this? You certainly don't need to tell me. But please please please be honest with yourself. I suspect (at least in your mind) she was once wonderful. But she is not who you thought she was.

If this was your son dealing with his wife, would you want him to live in this massively dysfunctional, cruel and toxic environment?

I am not telling you to divorce. But I am telling you that you really need to fix yourself. And that can only start if you are honest with yourself.

Strength to you sir.

I agree with reallyscrewedup. And while you work on fixing yourself, you need to continue to show her consequences. You are slipping here, NP5. She is close to almost getting a free ride out of her actions