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I am a person by nature who sees the importance of the little things in life. Never been one to have to have things over the top. That has been the same thought process and belief as I'm trying to work on R with my WH.

While everyone has been wanting to see some huge gestures on his part, I as someone who knows him and had seen the changes as he had been getting deeper into the fog, now see things that make me believe it may be lifting.

From sitting next to me on the couch while watching tv with his arm around me as opposed to sitting on the opposite end. Being more thoughtful. Taking my plate to the kitchen after I'm done eating. Being here and helping me with our sons behavioral issues instead of it being just me. Asking if I want to go places with him as opposed to him just leaving me behind. Things that should have been going on to begin with, and may seem small and stupid to some. But I see it.

The meanness that was becoming so evident as he was pulling further away from me during the A is no longer there. He's calling and texting me more. Do we still have a long way to go? Absolutely. But this is a start which is better than nothing.

Tomorrow will be our 20th anniversary of being together as a couple. Yes, I do still acknowledge that day in addition to our wedding anniversary. I was sitting in bed on my ipad reading SI, when I heard him come home. He rarely ever comes home in the morning after he's done with his route. When he approached the bedroom I asked what happened. Why was he home? He said he just wanted to give me my flowers and handed me a dozen pink roses. I got out of bed and we just held each other.

This is a man who has never been one for over the top gestures. And no, he's not one to do something like that just for the hell of it. Baby steps. But this was just so unexpected and gives me another bit of hope.

What are you hoping for? How long have you been hoping? What makes you think your H isn't just getting more confident in his cake-eating?

My concern is that you may be avoiding conflict, which I believe is exactly the wrong strategy in dealing with infidelity. JMO, of course.

Sisoon, what I'm hoping for is the survival of my marriage, that we can possibly emerge different and stronger than before, that this whole thing will change things within myself that I have wanted to change as well as things within him, and that we can communicate and open up dialogue that had been missing.

I am fairly new to this whole nightmare. Began finding things in December, had my first confrontation in early January. Continued finding things, second confrontation at the end of January. Both had emotional breakdown in March, and are taking it from there.

As I said, his actions might seem trivial to many, but he is a person who grew up with a family that was rather cold. Emotion and expressions of love do not appear to have been the norm. I guess I'm going with the same instinct on his behavior now as I was when I began looking for things in December.

Right now, for me, it's a leap of faith I have to take.

He's showing you more attention, showing you that he's thinking about you, that you are valuable to him, that he loves you, that he wants to spend more time with you. All good things, and things you deserve.

Like you said, baby steps. He has another 30-40 years to keep these actions up.

Thanks JM72 for the kind, inspirational thoughts. I appreciate it.

If he steps out of bounds again he won't have another 30-40 years because I'll wring his neck!

I'm glad he's stepping up. But being a decent husband, who helps around the house, and being involved with the kids, isn't the hard work he needs to be doing. It's nice..it's helpful...but he also needs to be in IC, answering your questions, completely NC, transparent, tested for stds, digging deep, working out his "why."

The other stuff is nice..but not a sign he's no longer "foggy."

Well, yeah.....There's always the "You better kiss my ass while holding a frying pan" approach.

That has its benefits as well.

[This message edited by JM72 at 1:04 PM, April 9th (Saturday)]

Please don't mistake crumbs for a three course meal. It sounds like you've been conditioned to put up with the horrible times for scraps, which I think a lot of us who were betrayed did. You deserve more than someone simply treating you with some basic human kindness.

I don't think most betrayed spouses want, or expect, their WS to kiss their ass. Most would be happy with their WS doing the work to change whatever it is about them that makes them wayward.

No ass kissing involved.

Of course, an unremorseful WS,would see a lot of that work as ass kissing.

[This message edited by confused615 at 1:26 PM, April 9th (Saturday)]

Confused615, I don't want or expect ass kissing. I think JM72 was merely responding to my humor.

Ass kissing is fake to me. Always has been, that's why I never wanted that in any relationship. I want genuine feelings.

My WH is showing me behavior that used to exist. He had detached from me during the A. I felt it. And as I felt that, I now feel him coming back to me if that makes sense.

When he was becoming detached, I was pulling away. There was a huge divide between us, and though I hated it I couldn't bring myself to turn towards him. His behavior towards me made that impossible.

If I can't take the leap of faith, and be willing to work on our marriage together with him then I may as well call it a day.

Alot of folks are advising being careful about his actions. Understood, you should be. There is nothing wrong with being cautious, but him sitting next to you on the couch, holding you, surprising you by stopping home because he was thinking about you, buying you flowers, enjoy it. You deserve it and so much more.

It doesn't mean you won't still be on guard or that he doesn't have a mountain to climb for you to heal, but you have to start somewhere.

I'm glad you are getting the love and attention that you deserve. That's all I wanted to say.

((((JM72)))) Thank you.

I know there's a ton of work to do, and I'm awake now. I won't be asleep in my marriage again. That divide opened the door wide for the OW, and enabled their A.

But it is nice to have a break from the heartache, the mind loops, the doubts etc. My mind and soul need that.

It is start, and it has to happen somewhere as you said. Better I see that than nothing from him.

I wouldn't put much value into any of that until he hands over his phone.

A lot of folks around here think that if the WS isn't remorseful and doing the work of a perfect rebuilder from day one, then you must stand guard, 180 them and not allow little things to happen. I believe this and don't believe this at the same time. Here is the thing about affairs -- they aren't fair and separating from one sometimes is a gradual thing -- even the books say that. We'd love for our WS to drop the affair, beg for our forgiveness, realize all of their wrong doings and be perfect on Dday, but is that realistic? What I wanted more than anything was that any actions towards me to be genuine. So let me tell you my story.

WS knew quickly that he wanted to be with me and not with OW, but that didn't mean that his feelings had died for OW and it didn't mean that the feelings he has today for me had returned yet. He just knew that where he saw his life going was 100% with me and not her. She was a unicorn in a fairy tale. However, there isn't a light switch for these kinds of things. They get twisted into a messed up situation during the affair and they have to unravel it after the affair. It isn't fair. It is cruel. It is hurtful. But I believe it is also realistic if they have had an emotional connection that this is the progression. Now with that being said, no one would blame a BS for not putting up with that crap. It isn't fair and it is wrong, etc. I'm not saying you should put up with it because we all have our breaking points. But I chose to work on my marriage. So that meant it took time for him to disconnect from her and reconnect with me. It was painful for me, but I kept hope.

So it started with him making more physical gestures towards me. We began talking A LOT. He continued to have feelings for her, but began to realize he never lost feelings for me, that he buried them. Then he started realizing that he forgot how good of a woman I was and how good of a marriage we had. See when you have an affair, you have to find a way to believe that you are justified in having it. Most people don't think affairs are moral or ethical, so they have to find a reason why they are doing it. None of the reasons are good of course, but they begin to believe them. If you want more on that look up cognitive dissonance. This is all part of the work that needs to be done by the WS.

So let me tell you where we are today after 9 months since DDay. We are doing really, really well. I know that my fWS is with me mentally, physically and emotionally. I know this because his entire demeanor has changed. I won't say that I completely trust him, because I don't. But I can say that I trust him more than most people would after 9 months, especially since he continued contact until late December resulting in a second DDay. When the WS becomes remorseful and you can see the positive changes they are making and the revelations they are discovering about themselves, it is hard to not begin to believe them again.

So where I am going with all of this is, if the little things like holding your hand is helping both of you, then don't deny them. But at the same time, remain cautious until you see lots of remorse. Lots of reassurance. Lots of dedication to you. But enjoy the small moments that are happening.

[This message edited by W3IRZ at 5:45 PM, April 9th (Saturday)]

W3IRZ, thank you for your very informative reply and for sharing your story. I appreciate it. I did look up Cognitive Dissonance, and this is exactly what happens in the mind of the WS. Mine admitted I was right when I said he had convinced himself that he "deserved" to have an affair. It absolutely had to happen to counteract the knowledge that what he was doing was wrong on so many levels. The practice of deception itself is evidence of that knowledge. Why cover something up if it's all well and good right?

And yes, I do realize that it will take time to unravel from the affair. This was a LTA, over 2 years. I know that for him to have practiced betrayal for years there had to be feelings there. It makes me sick to think about it. And there are times I honestly don't know if I can take it. And crazy as it is, if there was infidelity I wish it had been just a drunken ONS. I think I could have dealt with that better. But the thought of my husband, my man, the love of my life, having any kind of feelings for another woman is downright excruciating.

There is a difference in him from the first confrontation in early January to now. He obviously had become so comfortable being in a LTA and I think he really believed he wouldn't be found out. All I was met with was sighing, a shaking of the head and an occasional OMG. Oddly enough after hours of crying and getting nowhere, I had put on my coat to just get out for a while. As I approached the door he turned and said "So now you're leaving me?" It was surreal. Here I was confronting him about a possible affair and he was worried I was leaving him. Is there a psychological term for that because I don't get it.

When we had the breakdown in March, it was the culmination of several very emotional days. I had finally been able to ID the OW. It was the middle of the night and I couldn't call anyone or leave the house. He was awake (he knew the walls were closing in and couldn't sleep) and I confronted him. The next day there was another big emotional scene. The third day I began packing up or throwing away mementos of our relationship. That, and the unfiltered conversation he heard when I was on the phone with a close friend the next morning made his facade crack. Two page, emotional letter. Crying. Apologizing.

I completely understand the caution being urged in everyone's replies. I know I can't expect miracles over night. This will be a process but I love him and at this moment am willing to try to make it work. It's a one day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time transition plagued by questions and insecurities. Is it really over with her? Will he be able to remain faithful? Will he miss her? It doesn't end. And the trust issues? That's a whole other mountain to climb.

But I see that glimmer of hope. I want to save my marriage. Only time will tell if the leap was worth it or if I am a colossal idiot. Right now I'm just a woman who loves her husband.

I didn't mean to imply that the things he is doing aren't nice things. They are. And they are necessary,for a healthy reconciliation.

But he needs to be doing more than being a good husband and father. I'm sure, since he had a two year affair, that the last two years were lonely for you, and the kids felt that distance as well. So, now that the affair is over, he has more time, energy, and is able to focus on his family. So. Of course he's going to be more present, more involved. Time will tell if he is being sincere.

There's way more to being a wayward, than just not cheating. If he is digging deep, answering your questions,being transparent, in addition to these nice gestures, then you're well on you're way to being reconciled.

Also, I am not one of "those" people around here, who think the WS has to be remorseful from the beginning. My WS didn't reach true remorse until am little over two years post dday. I consider us happily reconciled.

Confused615, I know you didn't mean it that way. And I understand there's more to R than gestures. While he is starting to open up, I don't have transparency yet. I know that's a problem. Top it off with his control issues and I don't know if it's hiding something or just freaking out at the thought of NOT being in control of something.

I know I need access to his phone and FB. Then again I wonder if there truly is such a thing as transparency anymore. There are so many ways for a WS to cover their tracks, it's not even funny. Technology was made for Waywards, it does everything to help them.

So how will I know I'm seeing all there really is?

We have a long way to go. SI has been a huge help to me. The advice given is priceless. I thank you and everyone else who offers their thoughts and opinions. It's much appreciated.

You are right that transparency can be faked these days. So the signs you are looking for is your husband taking down his walls, non-defensive behavior, answering all questions- even the ones that make him squirm. The remorse will come if he is moving back to you and he has really stopped all communication with OW. Problem is that sometimes that doesn't happen rught away for many reasons.

I highly recommend 3 books - Not Just Friends, How To Help Your Spouse Heal After Your Affair, and Steering Clear. Steering Clear is religious based with bible references. My husband and I aren't religious and we still find it extremely valuable. It gets into the nuts and bolts of how people can go so far from their core values to commit wrong behavior.

ETA- it is very important that you get to a place that you talk about everything. I often now out of the blue just ask what fWS is feeling or thinking. This makes it hard for him to lie to me and builds trust because I truly know what's going on inside his head. But you guys might not be there yet. It comes more as you are emotionally getting closer together

Good luck

[This message edited by W3IRZ at 5:44 AM, April 10th (Sunday)]

I have to agree 1000% with Confused. While his acts of engagement are nice and he should have been doing them all along instead of focusing his energy elsewhere, it doesn't mean a whole lot if he's STILL hiding things from you.

And if he's still guarding his phone and Facebook, he's STILL hiding things. So most of this stuff he's doing just sounds like acts of appeasement to keep you happy because he never wanted to lose you. You said yourself he panicked when you put on your coat, asking you if you were leaving him. So it's safe to say that he wanted both his affair AND his family, and didn't want to lose either. And Confused is right - he's home more now and present in your family life because he's no longer spending time away from you with his OW. But since he's still hiding things, I'm led to believe he's still in touch with her on some level. Otherwise, he wouldn't give a damn if you looked through his phone or Facebook.

The simple truth is that he was engaged in a two year long affair and had no plans to end it anytime soon. It wasn't his choice to end it - he had to end it on D-Day or lose his family. He kept what was important to him - his family - but it would be naive at best to think that being forced to end his affair just made his feelings for the OW dissipate overnight after D-Day.

Alaska77 is absolutely right - until he truly becomes transparent, I wouldn't be putting much stock into anything he says or does. The little acts of engagement you're seeing are not remorse. They're more about trying to keep you happy and about not losing his family. That was never his intention.

Unfortunately, there are too many posts from BS's who are devastated all over again when they have another D-Day and realize they were in false reconciliation all along. I think that's why most of us are trying to caution you.

It is difficult to police people with all the new technology. But that doesn't mean you just give up. Truly, you need access to everything. Without it, you have nothing to work with here. Here's the thing - they always slip up. And right now, he should be excited for you to look and see that there's nothing to hide. Seeing that over and over is what builds trust. The fact that he won't even let you look at his phone after he's wiped it and is being very careful is a huge red flag.

We know you want to reconcile. But you're still letting him control the situation. And I seriously doubt it's over anyway. There have been no consequences for him so why would he end it? He just needs to appease you enough to get you off his back so he can keep it going.

Just be careful. You've posted other things about him that really should be addressed as well. We all want you to have a success story here. But you won't get there without demanding the basics of reconciliation. Sorry if this is harsh. I just know it will be devastating to have another DDay.