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Furious. I can't tell how many times in the first couple of years I tried to pull the plug. Then the tears, sobbing and begging for forgiveness would start. Also how leaving would destroy our family. I always caved. Thought I was doing right thing but probably crueler to stay then to just rip off the bandage.

The affair was particularly brutal as it was at least in my house if not my bed. But to her would have been worse if it was somewhere else as that would have shown premeditation. She can fall back on how it just happened and after every time vowed it was the last.

The fact they both got away Scott free something I really have a hard time getting past. I never had to expose to stop it, and to expose now would just be for revenge. I still have feelings for her and wouldn't do it as it would destroy her.

It does make me want to throw up every time our friends say we have such a great marriage. If they only knew

@waitedwaytoolong the reason to expose the OM is to let his wife and bosses know what he is like...exposing your wife would have destroyed her image and got you a much needed support network...I think both would have given you a sense of justice..not to stop the affair but to make sure there were consequences for both of them..

If you are not going to expose then you need an IC to help you deal with your sense of injustice...

Life is too short to spend it with someone who is drowning you emotionally..i dont care how much she cries and begs...if you don't help yourself there comes a point where you are not the victim of your wife but yourself..think about that..and good luck..

Nothing about your post makes me think that your wife is truly remorseful and loves you the way a wife should.

It is really difficult to see things for what they are when you are standing in the middle.

My XWH was the same way. Not openly admitting he wanted to divorce. In fact, saying that he loved me and didn’t want to divorce. He was doing some things to make me think he was trying, but they were surface things, like telling me to get revenge if I felt like I needed to, telling me that he would read books to help and even reading a couple, going to IC, moving jobs so he didn’t have to work with OW, going NC with her, etc…I was really confused that I was not feeling better because it seemed like he was taking the steps.

The thing is, there is a difference between:

not wanting to get a divorce vs. wanting to stay married because she loves you more than anything or anyone.

doing what is necessary to keep the peace vs. working hard to help your spouse heal.

feeling bad you hurt someone and trying to help them feel better by doing what is convenient for you vs. feeling bad that you did something so terrible and wanting to work on yourself so that you never do those things again.

It can be so deceiving when they are passively trying like you WW is doing. In the end I realized that my XWH did want to be a good man, but he didn’t want to actually do the work necessary to be that better man. He felt bad that he hurt me, hated seeing me hurt, and would do what he could at the time to try to help me feel better, but it never translated into working on himself and the marriage to help me heal or to help the marriage heal. He basically wanted quick fixes to stop me from crying or being upset because it was uncomfortable for him when I was like that. He didn’t want to divorce because he didn’t want the social and financial back lash that came from that. The disappointment from his family, the social stigma attached to being divorced. He didn’t want to be faced with the awkward question of why? I was the best cover he had. On the surface he looked like a normal, down to earth, hard-working, family man. He kept me as his sweet wife, so no one would ask questions while he fucked whoever he could get into. Oh he stopped quickly whenever the spotlight shown on him, but I had no doubt that he would go back to it years down the road, when the light went off.

It got to a point where I stopped thinking about him and started thinking about me. Once I accepted that he may never change, it became a question of, “if he doesn’t change, do I want to live the rest of my life like this?” That answer was so far from yes that it shocked me.

So, I will ask you, if she doesn’t change from the person she is right now, do you want to live the rest of your life like this?

I'm so sorry that even after 5 years you are still in the fence. Maybe it is a deal breaker for you. Did you try to go to IC or MC at all? Maybe this will give you some answer to what you're looking for.

We have some similarities in our situation, my STBXWH also told me to just have an affair so we are even. Which I wouldn't of course, I'm not like him. My loyalty, my moral and my integrity are very important to me. Also, my STBXWH brought a woman he barely met over the internet to our house for couple of months, had sex in our bed while our small children were few steps away. This is a deal breaker for me, Marital house is off limit, this is the house you share with your spouse, this is the house that you create memories with your spouse, this is one of my deal breaker and you add that my children were in the house while he was doing her and he brought my 15 months old to his dates and made out with his 2nd OW in the car while my daughter was in the backseat was another big deal breaker for me. Involving his own children to his own selfishness who will get over that and move on with their marriage. The disrespect is beyond unimaginable.

Do I really want to go through the whole courting thing in my 50's? Who knows what I would end up with.

Who said you need to be with anybody? You don't need to be with anybody and if someone comes a long that you think you want to spend your life with then that's a bonus. What I'm trying to say if you are unable to move on with your marriage after 5 years, you either need to talk to an IC and see why are still in the fence or you move on without her.

I think it's acceptance what you need to do. You need to accept that infidelity will be part of your marriage, what she she did to you and if you want to stay, you need to accept that. I can't accept infidelity in my marriage and what he did during his infidelities so I filed and I am trying to move on.

It is hard to R or D or even staying in limbo forever but you are the only one who can decide what you want to do.

Hard to believe that I am going to defend my wife here but I do think she is remorseful or at the least wishes this had never happened. In the beginning she did ask everyday what she could do. Even telling me to even the score. There really wasn't anything aside from inventing a time machine that she could do. Aside from not being in as good as shape as she was with AP which I wrote about in another post what could she do?

We went to MC and had to hear about how this could be something that actually could make our marriage stronger. Not what I was looking to hear. I quit shortly after that.

I see a lot of posts here from those who reconciled and forgave. I wish I could get to that. Most of those seem to happen quickly. Not sure how many turn it around after sitting in limbo for so long. I just did so much wrong in the beginning.

@waitedwaytoolong - I don't mean to be argumentative but what has SHE done - IC, read books, etc to be a better person.

FYI telling you to "even the score" wasn't for you it was for her - to ease her conscience and to not get exposed. If she really wanted to show remorse she would have come clean to at least her family - to help you get the support network you need. But instead she is watching you suffer for 5 years..to maintain her reputation...in other words her reputation is more important to her than your well being...does that seem remorseful to you?

She chose her husband?! Wow, you should be so proud. I know I am.

I've been fence sitting for some time myself. I too do whatever the fuck I want. I do not ask nor care what my wife thinks. She has proven to me that her judgement is suspect. I do not value her input. My WW offered to give me a hall pass too. What a fucking joke. I guess cheaters think fucking someone else will solve all of life's problems.

I have come to realize, that for me anyway, you have to be able to tolerate a diminished marriage if you want to stay in the relationship after a betrayal. I think that the misery I feel is mourning what was lost. I do not know of a way to make this situation better.

I do not respect my WW. There's no trust. I don't think she would cheat again, but I was wrong before. I also do not desire her like I once did either. I cannot stand her putting her mouth on mine.

Why do you stay waitedwaytoolong? Risk aversion? Fear of change? Love? Staying to punish her?

Hello waitedwaytoolong. Sounds like this situation was a deal breaker for you. Then based on what you have posted also sounds like you were coerced to stay with WW's outpouring of emotions. Sounds almost as if you are punishing her, and yourself for that matter, by staying in the marriage.

I'm going to give you a different perspective as I fall into the betrayed child category around here. My father also stayed in the marriage for another five years, though his tactics were the codependent pick me dance until he couldn't take it anymore and had his own exit affair. What I want to get at is what those 5 - 6 years living in a house with a broken marriage was like from my perspective.

The environment turned toxic after dday, though I could probably argue that it was toxic on my mother's part before dday but I want to stick with the infidelity aspects. After dday my father was no longer the same person. He was crushed. Infidelity changed him for the worse, as it does with most people. As time moved on I watched him go further and further down with depression. His happy go lucky demeanor disappeared. The atmosphere between my parents turned very cold at time. Often void of expression. Other times very hostile. Lot's of arguing over meaningless things. I remember watching him when he thought no one was looking. His very posture had changed. Not that we were a very connected family to begin with but over time we all retreated more and more into our own corners. This went on for years. My father would come home late to avoid her/us/anyone. Often there would be arguing late at night behind closed doors. Very hard to articulate to someone outside our family as everything to everyone else appeared normal. Things were far from "normal". I was watching, studying even, their relationship. I was learning to not trust women or anyone for that matter. I was learning to disconnect for my future relationships. I was learning what marriage was all about.

I guarantee that your kids are learning in their environment as well. I guarantee that they pick up on things no matter how subtle they are. And that is how the environment in your house is toxic right now. So when your WW begs and pleads to stay to keep the family intact, often keeping the family intact has undesired consequences as well. I'm not one to stay together for the kids if the home environment is going to be toxic in anyway. Especially if it's a deal breaker and one of the parents is being consumed by what happens. Though in my case it was a bit extreme and my brother did not live through those years and committed suicide. Not because of the A, but I can say that no one saw what was going on with him because everyone else was dealing with the A either directly or indirectly. The A filled and consumed that house that I grew up in. That's how I ended up here on SI many years later. It wasn't until I had kids of my own and had life experience that I could put into words what happened to us. Not to mention all the damage I did in my relationships and my own marriage for that matter.

I can't tell how many times in the first couple of years I tried to pull the plug. Then the tears, sobbing and begging for forgiveness would start. Also how leaving would destroy our family. I always caved. Thought I was doing right thing but probably crueler to stay then to just rip off the bandage.

What I'm saying to you is, sounds that this is a deal breaker for you, and you are still at this point many years later letting the A influence your behavior which may then have an adverse effect on your household environment, get out. You are not doing yourself, your WW, or your kids any favors.

Have you tried on a separation for size? To treat it like you would if you were getting D to see if it fits? May or may not work for you but you may want to try it to see if it fits then make your decision to see if you want to proceed to D, or realize that you want to be all in for R. Just a thought anyway.

yop

I've been fence sitting for some time myself. I too do whatever the fuck I want. I do not ask nor care what my wife thinks. She has proven to me that her judgement is suspect. I do not value her input. My WW offered to give me a hall pass too. What a fucking joke. I guess cheaters think fucking someone else will solve all of life's problems.

I feel identical to this, but I didn't feel this way until after False R, which I'm pretty sure was a dealbreaker for me.

I don't like holding the A over my WH's head but I do hold him responsible for how he acts and treats me. I don't stand for any manipulation or emotional abuse (my WH has strong NPD tendencies and feels little to no empathy).

I think I am waiting for the right time to leave and right now is not it. I do have a lot of fear. definitely more fear to divorce than stay in limbo and I am not sure why.

I continue to work on myself as that is all I have control over anymore.

(((waitedwaytoolong))) you are not alone in this, in fact I think there are more people in this position than care to admit.

Everyone is different as is the situations.

Financially if you're older both standards of living would go down permanently in a divorce, etc.

It's the real world Unfortunately that we live in. The circumstances around this were pretty brutal. Total disrespect.

She never once thought of you or the family as she was having her affair.

You were not prepared to deal with this at the time. Who is? Looking back exposure would have gotten you closure but that time is past.

You have to deal with today and the future. IMO it's not written anywhere that you have to forgive, etc. How can you forgive/forget that level of betrayal? You owe her nothing now. Her granting you a hall pass would be just for her not you. Misguided thinking.

Your choice is now limited. The marriage is gone you're just together on paper. In this circumstance you live your life as you choose. Be civil and she has to understand this is her consequence. Some like you can't recover. It was a dealbreaker but you stayed. It's where you are and the closeness/bond that you had pre A in your circumstance will never return. It's where you are.

Do your kids know? Perhaps as they are older it might help if you set them down and give them a sanitized version so they at least understand why you are where you're at. They aren't stupid they know something is off.

You are correct it would have been better if you'd divorced back then but how were you to have known.

[This message edited by Marc878 at 11:35 AM, June 8th (Wednesday)]

I just can't seem to get to a place where i am even close to being all in.

I knew after a certain period of time that I just could not stay in my M forever. It ultimately was a deal breaker for me even though I tried (and tried).

You need to dig into your heart of hearts and make the decision to be fair to yourself. If it really is a deal breaker, then you need to deal with it. If it is not then I second what others have said about seeking help to move through the process. Living the way you are can not be fun for you.

Two things.

She'll never see or understand you because she wasn't on the receiving end. I suspect she sorry she put HER life, etc in jeopardy but that's a lot different than remourse.

A bad MC is worse than none and unfortunately there are many morons in that field. It's a shame you couldn't have found a good one. It may have helped. But you have to know yourself and many can never accept what you've been through. There are not many fairytale endings on something like this.

Hard to believe that I am going to defend my wife here but I do think she is remorseful or at the least wishes this had never happened. In the beginning she did ask everyday what she could do. Even telling me to even the score.

Waitedwaytoolong

Why does anyone deserve credit for that? If I was having an exciting time robbing banks and then got caught I would be acting the same. I would wish that I had never started. That way I wouldn’t be facing jail. If I never got caught I would love my time robbing banks.

I would ask the judge if there was anything I could do to lessen my sentence. That would be in my self-interest. I shouldn’t get a gold star for that.

You seem really impressed with her telling you to have an affair. Only sex may be a big deal to you but it obviously isn’t for her. Again that is self-serving. She assumes that you will not run off with the OW and come home to her.

After your affair you can’t be so holier than thou. A much better living situation for your wife. Then if you expose she can say that you are as bad as her.

They all think she is a saint and they talk about what a great marriage we have.

Waitedwaytoolong

The injustice is eating you up. It would me too. You’re even living in the same house that the OM remolded and you thanked him for. You have placed yourself in a box with a tiger. You will not allow yourself to escape. You're posting asking us how to ignore the tiger. Either kill the tiger or get out of the box.

I have come very close to revealing, but 5 years later it feels too much like it would be coming from spite.

Waitedwaytoolong

The way I see it you have two choices if you want to resolve things. You can even ask your wife which she wants.

1. Don’t expose. Tell everyone that you drifted apart and get good terms in a divorce.

2. Tell your wife that you tried to get over it but you obviously couldn’t under current conditions. Expose (together or not) and try for an honest R.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 12:14 PM, June 8th (Wednesday)]

@Graywolf is right I'd add one more thing..if the OM was married at the time his wife needs to be notified...what is eating you up is your inaction post dday...you feel like your wife and the OM got away with it..he just walked away...you can rectify that...

Perhaps total exposure and serious IC will give you the closure you need...

Everyone has given me a lot to think about. I guess it comes down to three choices. Leave, somehow get to forgiveness, or just slog along like I have been doing.

The slogging has been by far the easiest route. To be truthful It hasn't been that bad, its just not been good. I pretty much get to do what I want, and my marriage is probably the same as others in terms of day to day interactions as is any that have gone on 20+ years. Many of my friends tell me how their marriages suck. They just aren't dealing with what i am, or maybe they are and I don't know about it.

She never went to IC. didn't even come up. I get how it happened. I have been in almost the same position many times. Women I worked with, some i met while traveling, but even though i was often tempted, it didn't really occur to me that following through was an option. I thought she felt the same way. She describes it as a perfect storm the that she will make sure never happens again. I do believe this. Everyone here is amazing.

@waitedwaytoolong what about contacting the OM's wife?

To be honest you seem to be in a state of chronic pain with flare ups of extreme pain..you dont want to hug her or be near her..you go off on your own to do your own stuff...why live like this for the rest of your life?

If you stay or go you need IC and you need to get some sense of justice...

If you continue to do nothing you are no longer a victim of your wife but your own inaction...really after 5 years its on you now..

I wish you luck..

My marriage is probably the same as others in terms of day to day interactions as is any that have gone on 20+ years. Many of my friends tell me how their marriages suck.

Waitedwaytoolong

It’s great when your wife is your friend but I think that the above is often very true. In some ways your marriage may be even better than many.

When push comes to shove you don’t have to put up with any crap. The big negatives are the waves of injustice that wash over you from time to time when you trigger. Between waves your marriage is just as good as many. That’s why you’re able to slog along.

Greywolf - GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

I guess it comes down to three choices. Leave, somehow get to forgiveness, or just slog along like I have been doing.

Bingo! What people are left deciding in these situations (and everyone has this choice in a crappy marriage, but many don’t realize they have a choice until it really blows up in there face, like with infidelity) is exactly what you have listed above. What YOU need to answer for YOU is: Do you want a true, meaningful and intimate relationship with another human being?

The slogging has been by far the easiest route.

But is it the best route for you? If it is and you are more concerned with financial, economical, or other reasons and it works for you to stay in this situation, then you may need IC to just help you deal with getting through the emotional fallout from the infidelity and how to cohabitate in peace. If it is not, however, and you do desire that meaningful relationship as part of your life, then IMO you have no other choice but to leave and try find it.

Only you can know what’s in your heart, but please don’t settle because that’s what’s easy...for your sake and actually for her sake too. If you stay without her doing any real work on herself than she really is getting to eat the whole damn cake. Plus, you’d be surprised how much easier life can feel when you are actually happy.

Greywolf - GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

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Would you please PM me and let me know more specifically what I did wrong?