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Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

All right, I won't take her back. But she sure made it a hell of a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

Let’s say you did take her back. If you took her back under these conditions what would she think you would do if you had kids and she fooled around?

I know its hard but not going back is the best thing you will have ever done for yourself. She knew exactly what she was doing when she went there. She put herself in that stop. There is no guarantees she is being honest to you at all. Then you set up healthy boundries and she is pushing them too. She wants a relationship with you both and she is expecting you to give her what she wants. I would tell her sorry but its to late now. I would have all her stuff packed up and moved to a storage shed before she comes back so you can avoid seeing her all together.

C

Toopol, go back up, up above the plot twist. And re-read Merida's post. Read it several times.

Merida is telling you with compassion and wisdom who you ex is, becuase her younger self was somewhat the same.

And for what its worth I can testify to the same story, except I was the boy, the nice guy whomwas head over heels for his girl. I had my heart shattered by my first love. And I hung on for years afterwards. Let her continue to get emotional support for me, while she never was willing or able or really wanted to commit to me again after the first break. She loved me. But she did not love me as a lover or life partner does. It is what it is.

I have talked to that friend since. Yes, I still know her all these decades later. And like Merida she is the first to say I did her no favors by keeping her in my life. She went on to learn about committment and boundaries in other relationships with a vastly higher price tag for her. I did her no favors by being her nice guy. And I sure as hell did myself no favors.

Let her go, toopol. She was important to you. You will grieve her. But the only actually nice thing you can do for her is be the one who teaches her what fidelity is worth and what it takes to be in a relationship with respect for self and respect for your partner.

Let her go, man. Don't try to be her friend. Let her go.

After discussing it with her, I've decided that I need to get in contact with the other guy again. I understand that one of your conditions of our relationship was that I don't get in touch with him at all while you and I are still together.

This was likely written after she had already contacted and/or had sex with him again. Today's about-face was likely after he blew her off. You must realize there is nothing about her that you can trust.

And all this over e-mail? She's playing you like it's a sick game.

She knew the consequence of of her choice. It backfired faster than she could have even imagine. So once again she turns to you, her plan b safety net. Have you stopped to consider the nerve of this woman? Pure and simple, she is not who you think she is. She is a selfish manipulator. She is not a good person.

You don't need a few hours to think about it. As I said before, yesterday you were blessed with real closure on this issue. She can't take it back. Don't even talk to her. Don't answer her e-mails. Send her one text that says "We have broken up and we will no longer live together."

I think it's crucial that you say so in a one line message, and then go total no contact. Yesterday she chose to leave your life forever. Don't let her back in.

So she wanted another swing on the trapeze, but didn't have big enough "big girl panties" to do it with no net. (Or more quite possibly she did and got blown off.)

I don't see how this is good news, as you can now add "She broke up with me." to the list of very good reasons why she would be a poor choice to be your wife.

You guys aren't married. You have no kids, no mortgage, no health care issues. Dating is supposed to be a job interview for the position of spouse and I'm telling you as a guy who knows nothing about where you live or the women in your area there are better candidates for the job than her available in your locale.

Don't you owe it to yourself to find the best person for the position?

All relationships end. Every single one. Whether through death or divorce, it's going to end. Yours is currently ended. It's over and for some damn good legitimate reasons.

Why would you be excited about doubling down and jumping back in?

[This message edited by SquirrelFace at 10:54 AM, June 16th (Thursday)]

You are delusional and in denial...toopol

The fact that you think she is still being honest with you is the peak of your delusions. She already met him before she sent you the email. She also very likely spent the night with him and had sex with him before she sent the email in guilt. At this point, I assume that she is playing both of you. This is also why she pushed to go on this trip even though the MC was strongly against it.

Can you find out what she discussed with the MC/IC ? YOu might find your answers there.

[This message edited by kimichi at 11:00 AM, June 16th (Thursday)]

think her actions are based on your response to her email. She wanted you to beg for her, and rugsweep and negotiate for the relationship.

I thought similarly, except I think she was expecting him to just sit complacent by. She takes the entire relationship as a given. She can screw someone else, return to that place, and then babble about being indecisive with cheating again, and toopol stayed patiently waiting. When he issued an final "OK you broke the rule" and laid out a plan, she went into panic mode because she no longer had every single door open and waiting. He changed his MO, and she panicked at the lack of control

That her email actually says well 9 hours ago you felt this way is just mindboggling but not surprising given the exchanges so far.

Toopol - question for you. Why are YOU not letting her go?

Upside....there is a world of non-cheating, herpes free women out there. Once you get over this I would suggest you build a bit more confidence and self identity before dating. But once you start looking around you might like what you find.

I am sorry my friend. I know you really really want to have her back. But, then what? She threw you over for a guy that lives Halfway Around the World. Was she thinking that she would move there, or he would move to where you are?

I am also of the belief that she contacted him as soon as she arrived. Then, he either dumped her or she looked at him with a new set of eyes. No matter how you slice this pie, you were Plan B.

Don't be! You are worth so, so much more than she is willing to give. Value yourself as such.

Sending you strength so you can get through this difficult time.

So Plan A didn't work out. Back to you - Plan B.

Listen - Kimchi could not be more right. You are in TOTAL denial about how honest she is, how she tells you every thought in her head, how naive you think she is (she's not). She's a cheater and a manipulator. And now she has herpes. So Bellboy doesn't actually want a cheating girlfriend with herpes? Wow - color me surprised. But you're still considering it. Hmmmmmmm.

I am so sorry that your WGF is dragging you through the mud. When I saw your original post about her leaving you for good, I actually wanted to cheer. But to my horror, she now wants you back. I speculate that she had already seen and slept with the other man again. Being with him again convinced her to break up with you. So she did. When she went back to him and let him know that she now belonged completely to him, he then said No, No, this is just for temporary fun. We can have no long term relationship. And now she needs you, Plan B, back. Please do not disrespect yourself this way. Please realize that she has shown you who she is. She is not a person who is safe to marry. If she cannot be true to you even before marriage, what will happen after? I am so scared that she will convince you that she never saw the OM. She did. It is why she returned to that city. She wanted him. And if it is not him, it will be someone else. This is a woman who only thinks of herself. Please fortify your resolve to break up with her. You have shown yourself to be too good of a man to allow yourself to be treated this way. I am sorry if my words seem harsh, but I am terrified for you that you will allow her back into your life. I see nothing but pain in your future if you take her back. I am so sorry.

All right, I won't take her back.

Good! Now say it again. And again. And again.

Mean it.

It's the right thing to do. You know this.

The whole situation sucks. I'm sorry she's not who you thought she was, but glad you found out now rather than later. The pain is acute, but will be short-lived. You will get over her and be a healthier person as a result.

Sending strength.

((((toopol))))

You're not a troll, you're a man in incredible pain. And like everyone in pain, you just want it to go away.

I don't believe FOR ONE NANO-SECOND that she didn't get in touch with the asswipe. For whatever reason, it's a no-go and now what is she supposed to do? Oh yeah, PLAN B.

Don't fall for it.

When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM. She showed you EXACTLY who she was, someone who would blow off a dedicated, caring, and very special man for 'ooohhh, I want me some of that'.

Fuck. That. Bitch.

Staying strong and separating yourself from her is the FASTEST way to make the pain go away. I guarantee you that.

Who's to say that in another 9 hours she won't blow you off again? If she 'can't make up her mind' (ie, if she can't keep you as her Plan B), then just as fast as she (supposedly) changed back to picking you, she can go back to picking him.

I know you don't want this. But she had her chance(s) with you and blew it. Please do not waste any more time on HER - spend your time taking care of YOU.

I hope that you will treat her like dogshit on the bottom of your shoe - scrape off and move on.

((((toopol))))

You already told her your relationship is over. There is no need to respond to her latest bait (email).

You owe her nothing.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

All right, I won't take her back. But she sure made it a hell of a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

This brings tears to my eyes a bit, in mostly a good way. I feel like you've made the decision to go ahead and have that life-saving surgery after all. I hope you can go through with it.

She won't make it easy for you to move on. This is because as you do so, she will realize your worth and you will become the "love of her life" in her eyes. This will last as long as you are unavailable.

Of course, you can then go back in strong with negotiated parameters, she could work on herself and give you more of what you will need in the relationship ect. Then once you are committed, in a few years she will feel trapped. unhappy. Thinking that she 'settled'.

Ask me how I know this. Yes this is the script I followed and want to spare you the same. Stay the course!

Moving forward, it is very obvious you have a blind spot with accepting her narrative. Please entertain the notion that she is not being honest with you or herself. I believed my now ex because she could convince even herself.

[This message edited by antlered at 11:47 AM, June 16th (Thursday)]

I am going to be rude. I apologize in advance for what I am going to say. SHE DOESN'T LOVE YOU!

She is just using you as plan B.

So your options now are:

1- Shut your mind, take her back again and be a happy cuckold. Btw next trip just don't contact her, dont ask her any questions... When she returns just ask her to test jerself for STD before making love to her again.

2- RUN as everybody has been telling you and start a new and healthy relationship.

You are hanging to a dream. A person that isn't there anymore. The person you love IS NOT REAL. She is only in your mind. As far as I can see she is a very calculating girl who knows how to manipulate you to do anything she wants.

Try to see the situation from the outside. If this was happening to a friend of yours: What would you advice to him?

[This message edited by Esteban at 11:51 AM, June 16th (Thursday)]

Does this mean she hates him again? Is she 100% committed to you again?

I say marry her now before she changes her mind again. She is worth it. Consider the many years you wouldn't commit the way she wanted you to.

What if she really does have figured this out. At least double-check to what your and her and couples counselor all think about it first. Maybe there is some common psychological process that makes this is completely normal.

Toopol,

What really made her change her mind?

It could be regret. It could be that she thought things through. It could be OM said thanks but no thanks…

It really doesn’t matter.

What matters is what you are willing to do.

Please note I didn’t say what you want – it’s more what you are willing to do. You might WANT this affair to end and your relationship to work, but are you willing to do what that requires?

Right now might be a great time to simply stick with your decision. Do separation correctly and I can promise you that all will be fine in 6-8 months.

I should know – I HAD proposed to my fiancé of over 4 years. We were only 4 weeks and 6 days away from our big never-to-be wedding. Walking in on her and OM having sex sort of wiped away whatever picture I had of a future with her…

In MY case I walked out of that relationship. I had my regrets and weak moments but stuck faithfully to my decision. Because I decided to end it I could start my personal recovery that very day. I didn’t have her to bring me back to zero with a new d-day, new revelation, new drama…

About six months later I woke up and realized I didn’t remember why I felt funky and sad. Had to remind myself what I had gone through… A couple of months later there would be days where I was OK. A year later… I was totally over her, our relationship and any regret about my decision. From that day I see it as one of the better decisions of my life.

We didn’t remain friends.

It’s not that I tried to not be her friend. It’s just not so common that people that break up remain friends. We simply went different ways. Look around you – chances are most people have one or more relationships from the past. I guess that most would say hi and maybe even catch up for a minute or two if they meet a former partner but they don’t visit, don’t share Christmas cards or go out for right good time. People move on.

I guess that if you manage a relatively clean break then that’s what’s in stock for you; Six hard months followed by some decent months and then normality.

If you decide to reconcile? If you take her back?

Well… More of the same…

More of what you have been dealing with.

Some years where you get stressed if she’s not home at ten or on a business trip. I guess she might find ways to assure you of her whereabouts but you will still have fears.

Some years of you wondering why she has that distant stare.

Some years where the money you should be setting aside for your first house or the Europe vacation goes to IC and MC.

Some years to become even further entangled with no assurance of the future.

Some years where every major decision – like having a kid, buying a car or house, relocating – has to be balanced with how you have progressed.

IMHO then to take that risk then you have to be willing to do it all the way. Totally commit to the relationship just as she has to totally commit to it.

You have to be willing to take a chance that has (at best) even odds of setting you up for further pain.

It’s going to take you the same amount of time to stop feeling like sh@t – 6 to 8 months. Chances are that after 18 to 24 months you will have a good sense of if it’s going to work or not.

So it boils down to this IMHO:

What are you willing to do?

Accept the present situation and start your personal recovery.

OR

Try to work things out, hope she commits 100% and that you will have some personal recovery and that with immense cost and effort you might have a salvageable relationship in 12-24 months…

Frankly then to ME the latter would only be an option if there were considerations like kids. To ME then R would be like wanting to be rich by buying a lottery ticket. The other option – it might not get you rich as fast, but it’s more likely to get you started on that path.

Not so fast. Why not make this conditional on her taking and passing a polygraph when she returns? I think just this suggestion will tell you what you need to know.