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It's been 26 days since the beginning of your thread. I think if you go back and read it from the beginning, you'll see a pattern of your WW resisting honesty time and again until she's eventually cornered.

I get it, I do. My fWH hedged his bets for the first month until he finally understood that I really was going to divorce him. I had already given him enough chances and I was done. One more slip up and he KNEW it was over.

I don't think your WW really understands how precarious her situation is. This may sound a bit sexist, but women process emotional information much more efficiently than men do.

It's about brain connectivity between the left and right hemispheres. So, while men feel the same depth and range of emotions, it often takes more time to process them. A guy might get angry at work when he sees someone else get a promotion. Underneath the anger though is actually a different emotion, maybe anxiety or feelings of inferiority. It takes time for the emotion to process in order for him to put a label on it, so at first he's just angry.

What this means in practice is that women are typically more agile in any sort of emotional confrontation. She can read you faster than you can read her and her words make sense to you when they're coming out of her mouth. Then later on you find yourself thinking, "Hey, wait a minute! what about this, this, and that?!"

She might win the battle, but she loses the war when you've had time to sort through the emotional clutter.

She's run circles around you so far, but you haven't backed down. If you read to the beginning of your thread, she's gaslighted you like a champ, even while writing out timelines and taking polygraphs. This leaves you on edge, re-traumatized at each new revelation until one of them ends up being the straw that broke the camel's back.

HONESTY. That's the foundation of R. She's still resisting it. That's a bigger problem than what she knows, because while she's rattling her saber about moving out, it's more likely to be you who eventually throws in the towel.

Eh. *shrugs shoulders* Very typical behavior for a WS. She certainly isn't a special snowflake.

I agree with the others. The continued lying, the "I don't knows", the "I can't remembers", the "there's nothing else", then getting busted again for withholding the truth. THAT's the stuff that kills the M. Doesn't matter that it may not be "earth shattering" new revelations. Continuing to kill the trust is a real marriage killer with or even without infidelity involved. How many times did people say that here in your thread? Not that I read her threads but I know from being an avid reader in Wayward I'm sure there were people to tell her to come completely clean so that she doesn't kill her marriage in her thread too.

So she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't want to look at her shit. She's most likely afraid of a lot of things. Probably afraid of herself the most of all. She doesn't want to be the bad guy more than she already is. She tries to control her situation. She can't let go of the control of the outcome and digs her hole deeper and deeper. All while you continue to move on from the marriage. Unfortunately this is how many scenarios play out. We've seen this over and over again.

Very sorry to say that your WW can't get her head out of her own arse. She can still work to become a safer person for herself and her kids even if she ends up losing you. But if her actions say that she's going to run, I'm afraid she will become lost when she does.

Not your circus anymore DaL. Keep taking care of yourself. Definitely focus on those kids of yours. They are hurting. Remember if nothing else you have to be the stable parent. We've got your back.

yop

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[This message edited by DazedandLost at 4:12 AM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

DaL,

While it wasn't a big surprise, I'm really sorry about this new revelation - that she intentionally withheld these accounts and then lied about them. I'll echo what others have said, it's the continued lying that ultimately destroys the marriage.

One thing I want to point out; I've noticed that time and again you are justifying your wife's lies and TT. "It's just about this" or, "It was a previous thing she lied about, not a new one" is also something you've said. And it's understandable. You're grasping, trying to hold on. But how many times are you going to defend and justify her lying and withholding from you? They pile up you know. And they're indicative of a much larger problem.

Personal example: In the wake of DDay, I needed answers. So I sat my wife down for a very long and tortuous weekend and told her the following, which is quoted from my threads:

So I reiterated to my wife that honesty is paramount. That I have no clue what the future will bring, but that I can guarantee that we will not have a future together if she’s not totally and unequivocally honest now. From here on out that’s how it’s got to be. It’s important for me to get answers, important for me to process and heal. It’s important because for the last 5 months or so our marriage has been based on dishonesty and falsehood. That is not a marriage and if she can’t be honest now when it’s all on the line, then might as well just call it quits. I also said that I want us to visit with a polygraph examiner and submit her answers and that if there is one thing that is off, it’s over. I don’t care if she lied about what she ate for lunch one day. There are no second chances. Finally, I told her that she should not be scared about what she says and how it’ll impact me – the truth is more important and frankly I was in so much pain as it was what’s a bit more? Just get it all over with and then maybe I’ll be able to deal – the fear of the unknown was killing me.

DaL - Because after so many lies and when as a BS we question who exactly is this person whom we thought we knew so well, honesty is the only thing that matters.

She agreed to all of the above immediately. She said she’s scared. Scared I’ll hate her even more. Scared we can never come back from this. Scared that I may never recover from what she did. Scared that nothing she’ll do will help me. Scared that she’ll lose me and the kids. Scared for their future. And ours. I told her that I’m sorry that all those fears weren’t enough to prevent her from going down the road she did, but here we are. All we can do now is do what’s right. She failed the hard choices before (what should have been an easy choice). Don’t fail this one. So she sucked it up. And off we went.

And she did and it was one of the worst couple of days of my life. But she put me first. Finally. She answered every question, horrible as they were. Painful as they were. It tore me apart. But she laid herself bare and did it because she was at least able to do this for me, no matter how poorly it made her appear. She made herself vulnerable to me and let go of the outcome. In the Wayward Forum they call this "owning your shit." And that's how we've been living since. No hiding things. We are open and bare in front of each other, warts and all.

27+ years together, 5 kids, yet it is her actions since DDay that cause me to still be here in the marriage. That willingness to work and be open and honest, to put me first after she hadn't, and damned the consequences to her.

I'm sorry to say your wife has not done this. She's still in self-preservation mode. She's putting herself first. Not you, not your family and not your marriage. I get why. It's not easy. She's scared. She doesn't know what will happen. So she's trying to control the outcome best she can. It's the exactly wrong approach.

DaL - Everyone has their line in the sand. I don't know what yours is, but this constant TT will slowly kill you as it eats at your soul. It cannot continue. She needs to understand the gravity of the situation and you, with respect, need to lay that down and be firm about it. Otherwise, we'll be seeing additional posts from you about yet more revelations. If you have any hope of saving your marriage, this shit has got to stop now.

Walloped, I think I agree with every damn word you just said.

I'm going to tag into what Walloped said.

Taking it to the next level.

She's putting herself first. Not you, not your family and not your marriage. I get why. It's not easy. She's scared.

It won't stop either until you make her see consequences for her actions. PERIOD.

There really are just a few rules to R.

1. No more lies of any kind. PERIOD. This includes lies of omission, minimization, and white lies.

2. No more lies of any kind, now, tomorrow, next week, next month, or ever.

3. No more LIES. This covers transparency, and my all time favorite Bullshit answer :"I don't know and I don't remember".

In my M, this phrase was not allowed to be uttered. If it was it better be followed by "But let me think on it for a minute". Otherwise I called Bullshit, and walked out of the room.

It took me doing that 2 times, for that nonsense to start. Because he knew when I walked away I was done, done listening to his lies, and done trying.

She has GOT to step up to the table and start doing some work. I don't care what happened in her past or why she has crappy coping skills. She is an adult and needs to be treated as one. That means being held accountable for actions, words, and choices.

she started up a new line of chat with a guy on the 23rd December while "at the gym". She was asking him how he wanted to proceed. She says she has no idea why she sent those emails (11 in one gym session) and she didn't intend to ever meet him. I say bullshit. However lie detector tests prove it didn't go anywhere.

I know things have changed again since you posted this but... I think the only important fact see is that she started chatting up a new guy four weeks ago. It doesn't matter if she doesn't know why. It doesn't matter that it didn't go anywhere. She did it. And that would have been the end for me.

Trust setting now down from 4 to a 0. She accepts this.

My question is why YOU accept this?

I'm on your side but you just aren't reading the writing on the wall. I hope whatever she decides is the best choice for you.

Take care.

Edited because... punctuation...

[This message edited by sudra at 1:32 PM, January 26th (Thursday)]

She doesn't have a bad memory. In fact, she probably has a VERY GOOD memory. Because you need a good memory when you're a liar.

Her memory is fine. She's just a liar.

I'm so sorry that she is doing this to you. Again.

Hey DaL.

Just checking in and hoping you're doing as well as can be.

She thinks talk like this means I've already given up. I havent, but I do see it as a more real possibility than ever before.

DaL, if you haven't already or if she starts guilting you for being checked out as to why R isn't working, really impress on her that fixing this is her responsibility. You haven't entirely given up but it doesn't really matter where your head is at. It's still her job to step up and fix this.

You've already said that you won't be playing games with her by chasing her and that is very good. When you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes and she has proven herself to be no prize here.

While she is separated from you, definitely keep checking her email and call log. Check her phone data too and look for any spikes in case she is using an app instead. Don't trust that she will stay faithful when you're no longer around to police her. Her last slip up was only a little over a month ago. It's still far too soon.

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[This message edited by DazedandLost at 4:09 AM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

Blessings for you friend and everything is for good ... hugs

High 5 D&L!

That's excellent news. Most important is to properly take care of yourself. I'm glad you're doing that.

This is a long road ahead, regardless of the outcome, and you need to be healthy and clear headed to be able to handle it. I'm glad you're heading down that path.

Glad to hear you are in a better place.

So happy to read that things are going in the right direction. Smart to have her change the number. Her quick action is her wanting to show you love and that she's submitting to you.

Keep up the good work Dazed.

Thanks for the update DaL. Keep moving forward. Eat another sandwich You're doing good!

yop

Great update, wishing you continued success!

It was NOT your fault.

There is no such thing as a perfect spouse. I cannot claim that I was perfect, but it happened to me too. I choose to accept that I was not perfect but there is no way in the world that what he did was my fault.

If you didn't MAKE her do this it is NOT your fault. No matter what you did or didn't do, her actions are not your responsibility.

And guess what, it's wrong, and if she knows that. You couldn't have made her do it. We all know right from wrong, and if someone tried to force you to do wrong you would fight that. I'm sure you don't remember that fight.

I know you are in pain. Please, please don't make it worse by thinking it is your fault.