SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Omg. Another I was trying to end it story. For 3 years. BUT she loves you! So much that she has cheated twice.

You really want to spend the rest of your life with a lying tramp? Why? It's clear you want out. Who would not?

Don't buy into anything she says. Remorse? Seriously? You want your life back? You want your self esteem back? You want sanity and less rage? Divorce this tramp now.

You will get to raise your kids, don't worry. If you stay you will be miserable for years and years as more and more lies come out.

Forget therapy, get a lawyer. Otherwise plan for more pain, more lies, more other men, more back sliding on her part. Sometimes you have to rip off the band aid and get on with life.

So get going on making a life for you. The kids will be much happier.

I totally agree with longsadstory's post.

Have you actually googled serial cheater? I don't think you realize what you are dealing with yet? Serial cheaters are hard wired to cheat. There is little chance she won't cheat again and not necessarily with the same man.

Many folks here talk about how happy they have become divorced and with 50/50 custody that actually gives them more quality time with their kids and more personal time to live a good life and date better women.

Absolutely reach out to her and tell her what you know. I agree with the others about your counselor, find someone more helpful. But in reality you need to find an ic to figure out what is broken inside your wife to cause her to do that. Marriage counseling at this point is a waste of time. It's not an addiction . These are choices that she made of her own free will. Over and over again. You shouldn't forgive her if she isn't remorseful. She might be sorry ,but that's it. She's a serial cheater .

I reached out to her today. Turns out that she had been told that I didn't like her (our families had hung out together a few times) and that I didn't want her around and that that is why our families were no longer hanging out.

In truth, I had told my wife to stop talking to and hanging out with her husband and THAT is why we never hung out.

Anyways, she found out a year or two ago during a fight with her husband. She suspected back in 2012 but did not have proof until then.

My wife seems very remorseful. I find her crying sometimes and she says she is crying for how terrible she was. Today she sent me a bunch of texts saying how grateful she is that I am trying to save our marriage and how much she appreciates everything I do...

All my brain can respond with is: "Then why the FUCK did you do this to us?"

1) I want to stop hurting. I want to see my kids every day. Right now, I don't want to forgive her.

Ok. That reads to me like you're ambivalent about whether to D or R -- is that right?

As far as I know she is being truthful now -- even when it hurts.

It would appear so from what you've written, and it sounds like you have other examples. It hurts what she said about your penis, but the fact that she told you rather than lying does say something. Could say a lot, actually.

I agree about the MC, glad you left. And I also agree you need to find a good therapist just for you.

I am ambivalent about whether to D or R. If we didn't have kids, I would D. Our parents both D. One set of grandparents for both of us also D. I wanted to break that cycle. I wanted to treat marriage as not disposable. But man... I didn't know how much pain she could cause me. I think the only thing worse would be if she hurt my kids... which I don't think she would ever do.

I don't even care about what she said... I care that she felt like she had to disparage me to him in order to what? Ingratiate herself to him? That she spent more than three years making him feel good at my expense.

Who does this? Who starts a physical affair while pregnant? Who carries it on for years and years and years?

I know someone who did.

My wife. Four-year long term affair. She was 4-months pregnant with our youngest son at the time.

I was starting to think she was her own infidelity phenomenon, but it appears my wife is not alone in this atrocity. Conversely, I don't know what this says about married dudes who get fired up about sleeping with someone else's pregnant wife. You probably should make sure his wife knows the affair went on longer than 2012.

Sorry to see you in this unique circle of Hell with me.

Don't sweat the forgiveness thing, that's only something to consider if your wife is getting help finding out why she did what she did. And if she is willing to do the work to help heal your marriage.

A lot of help here at SI. Keep reading, keep posting.

Oh my God! I thought I was alone. I would love to private message with you. As soon as I get to 50 posts I will.

I am so sorry that this happened to you too. Did it poison some of your memories with your family at that time? It has mine. I cannot stand to look at photographs from that era. Photographs of my wife and I holding our new born babies... Because she said that at the time a part of her wished that the OM could have been there too. Not instead of me. Both also in addition to me. Because she wanted him to be proud of her. Because she wanted to share this very special moment with him (and with me).

Thank you for your support -- it helps to know that someone else out there understands.

Jsmart said in part...

BTW: How has your sex life and affection level been during the affair and since? Were you being served cold duty sex with UN-passionate pecking type of kisses? From what you've revealed she probably felt like she was more his girl than yours. In cases like that, WWs don't want to cheat on their real man.

Absolutely No dating. You're not emotionally ready and besides you're married. Get your shit together first. If you decide to divorce, that's a different story but if you're trying to R, don't compound issues by having an revenge affair.

Sex was like a chore during the affair. She would demand it but then complain that it hurt. She would basically only do missionary with her feet planted firmly on the bed. As such, I didn't ask for it very much which is a reason she cites for having the affair -- a need for more affection.

After our first kid was born, I asked her to do Mojo Upgrade with me and she did. But when we tried to talk about it she got mad at me and clammed up so I dropped it.

Sex since the day I found out about the affair has been stellar. But that's normal right?

I rationally know a revenge affair is wrong. It's out of character for me and, frankly, feels unobtainable anyways. But it would not suffice -- she was in love with this other man FOR YEARS. Me having some side action for one day wouldn't balance the books. But man... some days I sure would like her to know the feel first hand the pain she is causing me.

I personally don't think that I would involve work. If you don't stay together, it could hurt you if she loses her job due to this bullshit. If you are thinking D, wait until after D to blow it up at work. Definitely get what you can from OBS.

My husband had 2 LTA. It is extremely hard to get over this. Most likely, she loved him. Maybe still does. You're going to always worry about them reconnecting. Women don't have sex with someone for years without feelings. Ask my husband's LTA. It is impossible for them to get over the A and move on. Maybe your wife can.

She readily admits she loved him. They talked about getting married.

Aslan

There is a drop of merit in what your MC is saying, only it would apply if you two were working on a marriage. I think at best you two are trying to find ways to tolerate each other…

There is one major question not being asked:

Why are you working at reconciliation with your wife?

Is it because you want to keep the family-unit together?

Is it because you want this marriage?

Or is it because you don’t know what else to do?

She's working on the marriage. I am half heartedly working on the marriage. I just falter a lot and wonder what the point is. How am I supposed to stay faithful and loyal to someone who could do this to me? How am I supposed to look at her when we are 60. When we are 80. And not feel this searing pain that she caused me? How am I supposed to NOT waste my life on her?

How am I supposed to spend every other Christmas with my kids? Only share half of their childhoods?

... Sorry. Got a little over-run by emotion there but I'm leaving it in.

Why am I working on reconciliation with my wife?

For the love we had. For the kids. To do better than my parents and grandparents. For my own personal growth. Because she seems like she is actually sorry.

Is it because you want to keep the family-unit together?

That is a huge part of it.

Is it because you want this marriage?

I did. I'm not sure if I still do.

Or is it because you don’t know what else to do?

No. I know what else to do. I don't know if I want the alternative. Are there better women out there? Will I be happier without her? Will I miss my kids? My dogs? My house?

I'm 4 years post d-day with my wife, so I don't say this lightly...

You should REALLY consider moving on.

Part of the reason I stayed was my kids are teens. My wife and I split for a while when they were under 3 and they don't even know it happened! If you bail now and work hard to be a good father they will grow up knowing that reality and not be as hurt, IMHO as the will be when you and your wife split in a few years.

Have you actually googled serial cheater? I don't think you realize what you are dealing with yet? Serial cheaters are hard wired to cheat. There is little chance she won't cheat again and not necessarily with the same man.

Many folks here talk about how happy they have become divorced and with 50/50 custody that actually gives them more quality time with their kids and more personal time to live a good life and date better women.

I have thought about that. I can forgive her and co-parent. I don't know if I can forgive her and have to look at her face everyday and pretend to be happy.

Having personal time 50% of the time, while she has the kids, would be amazing. But I worry about her decision making abilities. I worry about not being there to shield the kids from her bad decisions.

Sex since the day I found out about the affair has been stellar. But that's normal right?

I rationally know a revenge affair is wrong.

We had a lot of amazing sex right after. I think, at least for me, part of it was suddenly feeling like we were deep inside each other's minds sharing things we never shared before. It's died off a lot now though.

My wife gave me a free pass. I never cashed it in. Apparently it had an expiry date though LOL

A18

What stuck out on your post is that you and your WW have the same IC for each other and the same one for MC if this is correct, you may want to consider reviewing what happened in your counseling and how long the IC/MC has known about her affair. The IC had her make a pro/con list?

I would consider reporting this counselor for incompetence.

Hopeful30,

What stuck out on your post is that you and your WW have the same IC for each other and the same one for MC if this is correct, you may want to consider reviewing what happened in your counseling and how long the IC/MC has known about her affair. The IC had her make a pro/con list?

I would consider reporting this counselor for incompetence.

Thank you for your input. You are correct, it was the same IC/MC for both of us all the way around and yes she had my wife make a pro-con list of the affair partner (his pros and cons) and of me (my pros and cons) and how we are similar and how we are different. I haven't seen all of those lists but I did see the con side of the AP list.

My wife wrote on the pro side that she wasn't doing that because the AP would feel that it was a betrayal of what they had together to share it with other people...

On the con list was, among other things, that he is a liar and that he couldn't provide the life that her kids deserve...

How am I supposed to spend every other Christmas with my kids? Only share half of their childhoods?

The other side of this is that your children only really get half of you. Show them that you value yourself enough to say no more.

You're never going to be able to shake off the bad things that she said about you.

it was the same IC/MC for both of us all the way around

When I started IC, I asked if he'd be wanting to talk to my WW at some point, or to both of us at the same time. I was told that since I had "hired" him to be a counselor to me, that he ethically wouldn't/couldn't see my WW, either alone, or both of us together. That his responsibility was to help me, and not her, and not our marriage. He said that, if in time, I arrived at a point that he/I thought MC would be helpful, he would recommend a MC that we could see together, whose interest would be saving the marriage, but that his primary, and only, concern was saving me. It made a lot of sense to me.

I find it very strange that a counselor would be able to impartially advise you, her and both of you together..... All at the same time....

I don't know if it's an ethical violation or not, as in most states "councilor" seems to be an unregulated profession and it seems anyone can hang out a sign that says "marriage councilor" regardless of their qualifications or competence.

Just wanted to add that my IC became his IC and our MC. There was an agreement if during his IC that anything came up regarding his affairs that it had to be shared by the counselor if he did not tell me.

The fact that the IC was making pro/ con lists, and this was not an already known affair, would to me be grounds for reporting. The counselor chose to take on the job of all three counselor positions. There was an implicit responsibility to protect you. But it sounds like the counselor was only protecting her.

How am I supposed to spend every other Christmas with my kids? Only share half of their childhoods?

My XW and I alternate Xmas Eve and Xmas Day. So last year I had my daughter on Xmas Eve and Xmas Morning, then my XW picked her up around noon and they had the rest of the day together. Next year my XW will have her on Xmas Eve/Xmas Morning and then myself on Xmas Day. I imagine when she gets older this will change and she will just stay with one parent those days, but I think the schedule is best for now. We each had a half day on her Birthday too. All the other holidays it just alternating years.

As for sharing half their childhoods...you will have their 100% focus on your days and you can always skype the kids on her days. Every day I talk with my daughter about her day, tell her I love her and good night. And you can always go to their events.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 3:50 PM, March 27th (Monday)]

I must say that if you are still there with her, after all you have endured, then you are a better man than I am Gunga Din. You have had an "open marriage" for the last 3.5 years. You got cheated because she just kind of forgot to tell you your marriage was an open one.If you are staying for the children then you are setting yourself up for a future of unhappiness, for you and your children. Children aren't as uninformed as parents think they are. As yours grow they are going to become aware of the dynamics of your marriage. A question I have is how are you still having sex with her, so soon after you found out what she did and how she talked so disrespectfully about you with her OP? How many times did she have sex, oral and/or PIV and then come home and have sex with you or turn you down flat? How can you believe she loves you, now that she has been exposed, after telling you she loved the OP? You are her back-up plan, her plan B. She had already arrived at the conclusion that her OP could not provide for her and the children the way you could, and therefore that makes you Plan B or even worse, she was using you to help finance her infidelity. I am a romantic and believe in second chances when they at earned and really wanted. But after 3,5 years of love and sex with another man plus all the BS she put you through, it would be hard for me to stay and I can't even image how hard it is for you. As I've said to others....Your choices dictate your life and the choices you make are the ones you have to live with. Choose wisely. She made a pro and con list of you and her OP. You make your own pro and con list. List all the pros with staying with her and all the pros with leaving her. List all the cons with leaving her and all the cons with staying with her. It might be an eye opener. Some, men and women, seem to think that the, woman or man, that made their life a misery is the only one in the whole world. News flash...There are over three billion women and over three billion men in the world. She found another man she loved more than you. Believe me when I say you can find another woman that will love you a lot more than she. I wish you well.

Did it poison some of your memories with your family at that time?

Yeah, it still bothers me, but not as much now that I've been working through it in IC for 10 months. It probably always will bother me to some extent, but I'm hoping it will be more of a scar at some point and not something that haunts me.

OM and his wife did visit my wife in the hospital the day our youngest sone was born. Weird stuff indeed.

Thank you for your support -- it helps to know that someone else out there understands.

Support is why we are here, anytime that I can help in any small way, please let me know.