SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

General warning to all---

Post civilly or you will lose your posting privileges.

Thank you.

I feel this thread has gotten off track. I'm going to just point out the part of my signature that I'm going to adhere to:

Trying to figure out my next move. Probably some alcohol.

Yep.

Oh, and "fuck" just because it's a good word to use in nearly all situations. Sometimes I throw in a fuckity fuck, or a fucking fuckity fuck to bring it up a level.

Yep.

anticlimactic but...

Anyone read up on the Karpman Drama Triangle?

Here we have the villain or persecutor (women), the Rescuer (Mr. Spock) and the victim - the man who was unlucky enough to marry a woman, let alone be betrayed by an unfaithful one.

Mr. Spock - since you hate women so much, especially because you were betrayed by one (and some of us have been here long enough to know a few details about your wife's betrayal), let me just say this. Stop living with regret. Set yourself free and get the divorce you've always wanted and set her free as well.

[This message edited by k8la at 8:52 PM, April 17th (Monday)]

I chuckled at the fuck stuff and then you posted this:

I would think that many men would be grateful for a wife who likes to say "fuck" as opposed to actually going out and fucking OM.

This was a pretty shitty thing to say SMS. I understand you don't care for Spock or his opinion, but why try to deliberately hurt another BS? We betrayed folk know each other's soft spot. There's really no need to poke it just because you don't share their opinion.

Spock is obviously having a hard time. Do you feel better kicking him when he's down? Are you trying to goad him into saying something that gets him banned? Are you proud of yourself?

I'll be honest, I have not read EVERY post, due to time constraints. I'm not familiar with the RB thread, but wanted to comment on a few things I did read.

Violence is wrong period. I don't care who does the hitting. It's wrong. Women who abuse men should (and do) go to jail and court. To say that all women advocate and cheer on women hitting men, is a double standard. I am not (and there are many others) who would take the same stance. Generalizations lead to terrible things like genocide. I agree there is a double standard in this arena. Continue to make your point well, and mannerly when given the opportunity.

I have seen (and been appalled honestly) by the sex on demand mentality displayed by BH. What ended the last thread on this was someone saying okay, if that's okay, then every WH should give his wife strap on sex (anal) on demand as well. It shows the brutality of that act in a different light and made people think. That's not about sex, it's about power. Rape is about power. If you don't think so, look at rape in prison statistics, as well as the military (for man on man rapes).

It's patently unfair to use a broad brush to paint a group of people. It perpetuates the issues. If you are civil and informed and educated on issues, then speak the truth. The world will never be changed by verbal aggression.

But that's just my opinion, so it's probably not worth much.

I understand you don't care for Spock or his opinion,

Well, you are wrong on at least one account, stayedforthekids. I do care for MrSpock. I wouldn't bother posting on his thread for him to hopefully look within himself and do what he needs to do for his happiness instead of projecting his feelings on "double standards" "society" "women" "bias" etc.

It wasn't my intent to hurt MrSpock, or any fellow BS. MrSpock tried to demean me. I am simply stating facts. I am stating my truth. I know many men who would prefer a wife with a potty mouth (MisterSister) than having a WW who doesn't. I don't see how that is kicking someone when they are down. Facts!

ETA: And, if we are a BS, don't we all have a spouse that fucked around on us? I wasn't pointing out something unique to any BS here. I wasn't even making that comment directly to MrSpock but in general to all. I had a WH who fucked around on me for 7 years. I would prefer a man that said "fuck" a lot, but was faithful as opposed to him never saying a "bad" word but fucked around on me for 7 years!

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:54 AM, April 18th (Tuesday)]

Hold the Hell on here.

This thread started because Spock was angry that RB was called out by the mods, and 3-4 members for his comments about betrayed husbands here who are trying to reconcile. RB called them pathetic excuses of manhood. The thread was started in defense of RB and his insulting generalizations. His comments were meant to hurt the betrayed husbands who are reconciling.

So SMS makes her comment....

And suddenly that's unacceptable? That's a shitty thing to say? Why? Because it's not ok to try to hurt other betrayed spouses simply because you don't agree with the way they're handling the fallout? That now it's not ok to "poke at it because you don't share their opinion"?

So why is it ok for a man to insult other betrayed husbands here....But not ok for SMS to say what she did?

Hmmm.

Tell me again how men are treated unfairly..But women aren't?

Edited to add....yes..it seems Spock isn't in a good place today. Neither was the brand new member who started the thread on jfo. The one who was called weak for considering reconciliation. The one who posted twice..then disappeared.

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:28 PM, April 17th (Monday)]

It all comes down to how you feel about yourself

This world is trying to be PC but all the advantages are a still to men.

This is also why society values female life more than male life.

MrSpock

That is just false. What society, China? Where female babies were aborted or abandoned so they could try for the coveted male. In India? Where Bride Burning is practiced? In Islam countries, where they are not allowed to have an education and are considered chattle and only women are stoned to death for supposed Adultery? I could go on but, really, your statement is utter BS and has NO basis in fact..

Have your been visiting those “manosphere” web sites

I believe this whole subject got blowed way out of proportion.

We are all hurt equally by infidelity and D, male or female.

Oops

[This message edited by LizM at 10:38 PM, April 17th (Monday)]

Aren't posters supposed to respect a rant, especially when it's explicitly labeled as a rant? I think I remember reading that somewhere in the rules.

I believe waywards are asked to respect the rant and stay off vent threads.

Former wayward spouses and former other persons are asked to stay out of the Betrayed Spouse venting threads and respect their need to vent at THEIR situation.

It's debatable how much of this rant was a vent at spock's personal sitch and how much was generalizations made about members of SI and women in general - which some members felt compelled to defend.

[This message edited by sassylee at 10:50 PM, April 17th (Monday)]

Shiloe - This is not the first time Mr. Spock has ranted and vented about the magnitude and mortality of male-vs-female wounds caused by infidelity:

I believe this whole subject got blowed way out of proportion.

We are all hurt equally by infidelity and D, male or female.

Mr. Spock has stated on this and another thread quite categorically that this is not true. That men cannot recover (by staying married) if their female spouse cheats.

This is old ground-down sawdust. I am so sad that there are some betrayed men who are so lacking in empathy for the female species that they view the world of betrayal as a male vs. female damage assessment with the partiality that they do. For this person, I would sincerely recommend that divorce be the most compassionate pathway (for both parties) with all expediency, with a vow to avoid all women in the future, because only a woman in extraordinarily low self-esteem would tolerate the misogyny represented by such a void in empathetic capacity. And I would hate to see a woman hater have an opportunity to deepen his loathing for a woman who hates herself enough to stay with such a man.

“manosphere"

I'm sad that mentality has cropped up here. I know for me, SI has both men & women who share their hard earned wisdom with others, that's what so special about it. This " 2 types of men" alpha whatever is part of that negative dogma. SI is a perfect example of diversity that works.

You know, I kind of hate to reply to this because I hate to bump it, but this thread (and I haven't read the whole thing) is really fucking depressing. I was married to my husband for quite some time before I figured out he really doesn't like or respect women very much. And I'm sorry to say that due to some circumstances with men in my life recently (not just WH, other family members) I wonder if I will ever be able to trust a man. It seems like there's so much hostility amd mistrust between the sexes. How do we set that aside? I'm terrified I'll let myself trust another man and then figure out he secrectly has contempt for women just like my WH. And that right there, my attitude, is unfair to the good guys.

MrSpock

Well, if you have other data bring it. I have no problem to refute it.

I read this entire thread. You have ZERO data. None.

The way that you look at everything is so incredibly polarized. Talk to someone. Stop suffering through your situation.

Confused and SMS and a few others demonstrated exactly what spock was referring too in his first post. Can any of you girls state a thread where a bunch of men chastised a woman like spock has been here? Just because he thinks enduring your wife being pregnant by her AP is just about the most horrific thing 'most' men could fathom. I agree with him. I personally couldn't deal with that, yet there are those that do. Men are treated a bit differently here at SI. There is a lot of sympathy for WSes, especially if they are remorseful WWs.

I also feel that general and JFO are the places where the divorce the cheating POS viewpoints should be aired. I honestly feel, after dealing with this shit for years, remorseful WS, counseling, etc., blah, blah, blah, that I would have been better off leaving on d day. I have the lay of the land now. I see what a reconciled marriage looks like. I know what I have to live with the good changes and the "other" shit. I know the ramifications of staying vs leaving. I wish I would have left on d day and will likely end up divorcing even years after the A. In my opinion, that position is as valuable as the martyr yourself to the M if the WS is remorseful message.

Also, nobody's a fucking expert here. We're all just trying to cope. If the dissenting viewpoints are shamed and silenced, SI will degrade into a ((hugs)) and sending strength forum and cease to be a place where folks gather methods or ideas on how to recover from this shitshow.

Can any of you girls state a thread where a bunch of men chastised a woman like spock has been here?

For starters, we are women not girls.

Can you show me a thread where women have said things about men/bias/society/double standards like MrSpock has said about women/bias/society/double standards?

BTW, I didn't come onto this thread to "chastise" MrSpock. I came onto to it to ask him to do some introspection about his choices. He seems unhappy. He does a lot of projecting of his feelings, situation and choices onto other men. And women.

If the dissenting viewpoints are shamed and silenced

Which is exactly what MrSpock tried to do to me.

In my opinion, that position is as valuable as the martyr yourself to the M if the WS is remorseful message.

And who exactly posts the "martyr yourself to the M if the WS is remorseful" message? In the 7 years I have been here I have not seen anyone share that message. I have seen "give a remorseful WS a chance" message, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that someone martyr themselves because they have a remorseful WS.

I feel you may do some projecting yourself, stayedforthekids.

A different viewpoint is fine. It's when we make generalizations about people we don't know. What I see all too often are people projecting their anger and frustration on people that are already wounded and hurting instead of giving advice and let the chips fall where they may.

I think this whole rant was started in response to Redbarons post about there were 2 types of men. Totally condescending of people who chose a different route than he. Making himself out to being "manly" at the expense of others isn't helpful in any way .

This site was started as a support for people affected by infidelity and to help them move out of it, not for forcing their opinions down hurting people's throats and projecting their own anger onto others. This place has been a great support for me in dealing with the shitstorm that I was dealt with 19 months ago . I know the mods work hard to keep it that way.

[This message edited by 1survivor at 11:31 AM, April 18th (Tuesday)]

Respectively, I do believe that yes there is a double standard when it comes to certain things, especially infidelity. Stayedforthekids pointed something out that I have noticed a lot on this site. There have been numerous posts where a BW would tell a BH that they feel sorry for their WW because the BH isn't being receptive enough of the WW's efforts. Hell I have even seen posts where BW's on here have defended WWs who aren't even posters here. If you need evidence of this, then look at Waitedtoolongs last thread. I have yet to come across a thread by a BW where a BH comes in and says that I feel sorry for your WH because you aren't being receptive to him trying to fix the marriage. Personally, I wouldn't dare say something like that to a BW and I definitely wouldn't try to defend a WH. To me, it would be a very disrespectful thing to say to someone and it pretty much is a off handed way of saying that you need to get over it. I mean come on. Most of are here for the same reason and have gone through the same crap.

I also agree with Stayed in the sense that yes, this site to me is very Pro R and when someone present an opinion that differs from the norm, they get castigated. Now I do agree, there was a lot of generalizations is Red Baron's post and that post was definitely against guidelines here. However, I do think that at some level, there is some truth to it.

Listen, I consider myself to be very feminist. I do believe that there is a wage difference. Hell, my profession proves it. I am a nurse and I get paid more than my female counterparts for doing the same work. I do believe that woman get screwed when it comes to their healthcare as well. However, when it comes to this subject, I do think that men get the shorter end of the stick. To me the old saying is true "when a man cheats, its his fault, but when a woman cheats, its usually the man's fault as well." In addition, when the man can't get over the fact that his wife cheats, its his fault again, especially if the wife is remorseful.