SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

By the way, I posted without seeing mharris' post. Many of us have read the same stories, all so similar, and that's why I think we come up with the same ideas. We learned as you will soon that each of our partners were not unique in how they cheated or reacted afterward.

I haven't had a chance to read all of the responses, but I would highly suggest to:

1) See a lawyer.

2) See a lawyer.

3) See a lawyer.

Do the above before you do anything else. You have a fairly uniche set of circumstances in that you are a stay at home unmarried Dad with children in a long term relationship. In case everything goes south (which it very well may)a good lawyer could tell you what your rights are as the father and to see exactly where you stand with a financial perspective.

I really felt she would be trying harder to "win" me back...maybe I'm asking too much.

She should but unless she really fears she will lose you chances are she won't be as motivated.

If you are wearing your ring take it off and don't put it back on until she earns her place in the M again. Also start backing away from her and as they say "hope for the best but prepare for the worse" and at least talk to a lawyer so you know what to expect and to send her a message to show how serious this is.

Just don't be soft, the more you do to save the M the less they do. She broke it, she has to fix it.

PM for you Chappie

Annb wrote:

Please inform OM wife.

My husband had an affair with a co-worker. Her husband worked for the same company. He discovered the emails between my WH and his wife, confronted both of them. They said they would stop, blah, blah, blah. He DID NOT notify me bc he didn't want to hurt me. Well, the affair went underground, they never stopped until I found out.

To this day, I truly resent him and feel he was cowardly in not giving me the opportunity to know my life was a complete lie.

You should definitely expose to other betrayed spouse. It is the best thing to end the affair. He will throw your wife under the bus so fast to save himself from his wife's wrath. That really is a splash of cold water to a WW who thinks she's "in love" with OM.

I quoted AnnB because she brings 2 very important points.

1. Many times they will take the affair underground.

2. Your reluctance to expose is based on fear, which she correctly called cowardly.

Not attacking you. But want you to stand up for yourself. I'm not sure if your timidness is due to your SAHD situation but you need to be bold.

I've read and participated on 100s of threads on this and similar boards. Consistently the bold BH has a WW that realizes she wants to fight for her marriage. The hesitant BHs that try to appease, be understanding, end up with multiple D days.

Can I ask you why you never married BEFORE you had kids? Strange to decide to get married so late into the relationship. BTW: the divorce rate for such couples is higher than average.

Hey all more great stuff and great posts throughout the day. The first day I've actually not been sitting at home stewing and was out and about.

I'll try to clarify some more details to give some more perspective.

I am not against notifying the OBS, but it is tricky. As some have pointed out the OM might try and throw my WW under the bus, which could prompt the OBS to intervene at their workplace. And because my WW is the boss this is tough to navigate. As I stated before it seems prudent for the financial stability of our household at this point (remember we have 2 small children to think about as well) to try not to disrupt her ability to earn while looking to find another job. When we are able to rectify my WW and OM working together, or if our timetable expires I will reach out to inform her.

We had a few talks last night and are working on a fair timeline to 1. Let him move on to another place of employment as he communicated he was doing (ideal) or 2. Have my WW move into another job. (which she is actively seeking, as per one of my stipulations) Again, hiring processes take time, so we have to be realistic.

I appreciate as well everyone pushing me to become more independent financially so that I may not feel stuck. I actually -do- have a part time job as an independent contractor, but my primary focus is our children (and now this shitty situation). Obviously I haven't done much with it since. I have a decent support system and lots of connections and have been saving up, so there is money if I chose to move out, etc.

We haven't talked about the wedding stuff yet (waiting to discuss in MC and IC) and I think that will come with time. I could go either way here I just dont know yet.

Thank you all again, you have really inspired me to get up and moving and not lay around whimpering like some wounded animal.

Today was a step in the right direction.

I am not against notifying the OBS, but it is tricky. As some have pointed out the OM might try and throw my WW under the bus, which could prompt the OBS to intervene at their workplace. And because my WW is the boss this is tough to navigate.

That might be a plot for a crappy LMN movie, but it's not real life. The OBS won't want to jeopardize her WS's income and career any more than you do.

Your fiancé needs to get into IC and figure out how and why could have blown up her life, and yours along with it. Marriage counseling at this point will most likely do more harm than good. I'm over two years past D-day, have given my FWW the green light to schedule MC and she still hasn't done it. Why? Because she knows damned well that it was never the marriage's fault; it was all hers.

Glad to hear you've gotten out and about today. Keep it up, man.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:05 PM, April 27th (Thursday)]

I am not against notifying the OBS, but it is tricky. As some have pointed out the OM might try and throw my WW under the bus, which could prompt the OBS to intervene at their workplace. And because my WW is the boss this is tough to navigate. As I stated before it seems prudent for the financial stability of our household at this point (remember we have 2 small children to think about as well) to try not to disrupt her ability to earn while looking to find another job. When we are able to rectify my WW and OM working together, or if our timetable expires I will reach out to inform her.

By not exposing ASAP, you're setting yourself up for a future Dday. They are working together. What makes you think they're not having lunch together or meeting for a quick smooch in a copy or empty office? Because she said so?

If she was telling this POS that she loved him, you think that was all shut off because you found out? Every time she sees him, she getting a dopamine hit. Adultery is very addictive.

The OM throwing your wife under the bus is a powerful thing that we've seen work on MANY threads. Her being "in love" with this guy means that she still has a glamorized view of him and probably feels that what they had was "special." Her receiving a no contact letter from OM that he was forced to write by his angry wife can pop that fog quickly.

Maybe even getting an angry phone call from the OBS will further wake her up. We have a member who's WW was on a call he was having with the OM's wife. The WW apologized to the OBS by saying she didn't know he was married. The OBS said, "No, but you know you were, you whore." Ouch! That ROCKED that WW.

That is what's missing in your situation. Your WW has not faced any consequences. You're seeing talk but no action. That comes from lack of respect. A woman can't love a man she doesn't respect.

Hurtpenguin

So, you have signed up for the marathon and still think you can make it lugging that 100-pound weight and dragging the piano behind you…

I think one of the reasons dealing with infidelity is so tough is that we aren’t expecting it and we haven’t planned for it, plus it’s not something others in your near-vicinity might have experienced and are willing to share about.

Like you might have taken preventive action and made plans for if your home caught fire. You might have a ladder, an extinguisher or smoke detectors and maybe even a plan for how to get out. You don’t have this in place because you are expecting a fire but because you MIGHT have a fire.

If you two had discovered your wife had cancer. You could probably talk to someone close that had experience with dealing with cancer. You could seek help about it. Read good info about it. You would easily find very public resources to help you.

I sometimes use comparisons to help better understand what you are dealing with… Imagine you got a call from the cops asking you to pick your wife up from the local drunk-tank. She was arrested resisting a cop that stopped her DUI. You go along, pay her bail and when she sobers sit down for a talk. (Just in case you aren’t getting the comparison; drinking problem = infidelity)

She tells you that she’s been drinking vodka daily at work, plus a bottle of red in the evenings. Weekends start with a Bloody-Mary and go on from there. Last night she went out with the girls (OM) and ended dancing on the tables wearing a lampshade after downing a dozen Tequila shots.

So… She commits to not drinking. She truly realizes where she’s at and she is totally 100% committed to not drinking. When she makes that commitment she’s intent on not drinking (not continuing the infidelity…)

Only she tells you she doesn’t need AA (telling the OMW). She can do this alone (Not listening to SI!).

Sunday she’s OK with not drinking.

Monday she’s OK with not drinking.

Wednesday, she tells you the girls are meeting next Friday but she’s not going.

Thursday, she tells you she might have dinner with them but not the bar.

Friday, she tells you she might drive them to the bar…

Come Friday she goes with the girls for dinner. Declines a drink with dinner and only sniffs at the red-wine, missing it but knowing she can’t drink (she is around OM and doesn’t hold his hand, look in his eyes or press against him, but still smells his cologne and misses it…)

After dinner, she drives them to the bar and goes in with them – still 100% committed to not drinking. (She goes to a conference where OM will be, still 100% committed to not cheating).

They all order drinks. Feeling like a fool she orders one glass of G&T but ONLY to hold. She is still 100% committed to sobriety! (She’s sitting at the same table as OM at a business dinner… still no intention to cheat…)

Conversation flows, she starts having a good time, the girls order more drinks, things move on… Your wife still holds her G&T… She might have even dipped her tongue in it… just by accident. (She bumped into OM in the elevator).

Then one sip… (She asks OM how he’s doing. Opens for a personal conversation). She still has no intention of drinking… (She hasn’t dropped her pants, there is nothing “wrong” in the conversation…)

Then another, and another… Before you know it, she’s doing Jägermeister bombs, mounting that table looking for a lamp-shade…

If you were dealing with an alcoholic wife most posters, local advice, your minister, parents… would probably recite relatively well-known advice: Go to AA (or some comparable organization), do the 12 steps, remove ALL alcohol from the home for now, stay away from bars, liquor stores, monitor if she’s drinking… Plus you might even have a brother, uncle, aunt or friend that has been there and done that. But with infidelity… it’s different.

I guess about 30% of relationships dealing with infidelity end at d-day or the first weeks after d-day. Of the rest, I guess half experience another d-day within 6 months… The affair goes on in some way or another. It might be simply broken NC, “innocent” how-are-you conversations, or it might be better hidden sex-romps. But it’s still ongoing infidelity and IMHO there is NO WAY these marriages can reconcile. They might survive the second inevitable d-day (whether that’s discovering the “innocent” contact or discovering a used condom in her car) but repeated d-days and trickle-truth inevitably lowers any chance of true reconciliation.

Of those 35% that do get ONE d-day and the affair is truly over… I guess up to 90% manage to reconcile. More d-days and trickle truth probably drops that to 60%.

Frankly Penguin – It’s your call whether you want to give your marriage a chance or whether you want to give your WW career a chance.

HP

I have been around for some time here… My stats above are based on a combination of experience and some recollection from articles I have read. They place your chances of true reconciliation at… well… something like 2/10. That’s due to two simple factors: OMW doesn’t know and the ongoing contact. Fix one of the above and your chances would double. Fix both and they will double again.

But… since OMW might be crazy, it’s too hard to find her, wife might get in trouble, might lose her job and you seem to enjoy running marathons carrying a weight and dragging a piano behind you then let’s just deal with the REALITY that there is an overwhelming chance your choice in the near-future will be (a) you just learn to live with (possibly) XOM and (possibly) WW travelling together for work and accepting whatever she can offer as assurance there is no affair or (b) refusing to be a cuckold and demanding the changes needed even if that does lead to a final separation then I think there are some things you really need to look into.

Since you two aren’t married then what’s the status if you separate? Whose name is on the lease? The deed? The cars? The mortgage? Could she throw you out? Or leave you with no money? No matter how this goes then make sure you are totally aware of your rights. Be aware what you can do and what you could expect. Consider what can be done to assure your rights. Remember: You might be all friends and fair now but separation tends to bring out the worst in people. You didn’t expect her to cheat, did you? Yet she did. Get a consultation with an attorney about these issues. Don’t hide it from her – it’s a normal consequence of her affair and its only common sense to have these things in the clear.

At the same time ask the attorney about things like custody if either passes away, inheritance, right to live in the house and stuff like that… Totally irrelevant to infidelity but I know of a person that was engaged for over 20 years when his fiancé passed away from cancer. Her parents and sibling could have demanded custody plus a share of inheritance. Being married is a lot more than just a romantic thing, it’s also a known business transaction that clarifies all sorts of boring mundane issues like money.

Finally - I don’t agree at all with those that think being a SAHD makes you weak or makes your fiancé think less of you. I don’t think coming home with a wrench in your pocket with grease on your face would have prevented the affair.

How about telling him he's got a month to get a new job or you go see his wife.

I honestly have little hope for you in your approach. I've seen the experts here with years of experience telling you what you need to do in order to have a positive result given the parameters of your situation, and I only see you listening to at most 10% of it. Suggest you go back and read every response in this string again. I wish you good luck. Hope I'm wrong.

I have not read all of the responses here, but a few things I thought while reading your story:

The only way to actually improve your relationship is through open forms of communication. If you do not feel like she is doing enough, tell her. It will never get better if you do not. Also, I think you need to stand up for yourself. You said maybe you are asking too much of her. HELL NO YOU ARE NOT! She needs to be doing every thing in her humanly powers to fix everything she screwed up.

I am going through a betrayal right now too, very fresh, and I feel for you. Do what is best for you and your children. Good luck.

And I agree, see a lawyer.

Also, tell the other spouse. It is not fair to her. She is in the same boat as you, and she will just resent you as well if you do not.

Maybe it is time for you to go to work and for her to stay with the kids and remember what is actually important.

[This message edited by AAAA at 12:05 PM, April 28th (Friday)]

Affairs are very standard.

Rest assured neither of them are looking for a new job very hard. They've put their relationship on "simmer" while all of this blows over.

I am sorry to hear this and have not read all the posts. But I have one point to make and I hope it doesn't come across too bad. I, like almost everyone here, have been through the ugliness of infidelity. It is the most awful chapter of my life but I have survived as it happened to me four years ago today. My advice to anyone who is not married and has been cheated on is to run-real-fast. If your fiancé has demonstrated the ability to cheat before marriage then she has done you a huge favor in playing her hand before you were married.

I know it sounds awful and it is very painful but there is no way in this world I would even attempt to reconcile with someone who cheated before the wedding. I would move on and not look back for a second. Things like this happen for a reason and almost always you will be better off in the end. Just my $0.02 from experience.

My H had a full-blown affair with a coworker. They STILL work together, thought not closely, and there have been no long term issues. Don't think that she has to quit her job to reconcile. It doesn't necessarily have to happen that way. It sounds like she's remorseful and doing what you need to fix things.

If the OM's really looking for a new job, I'd lay low, especially since she could face losing her job and your family's income. I know it's "the right thing to do" to tell her BS, and I would have recommended that you do that back when my hurt was fresh, like so many here, but it might be best not to.

Probably a couple of unpopular opinions. lol

Also, I couldn't disagree with this more:

Stop going to MC. MC gives cheaters tools to manipulate you. It can facilitate blameshifting (it did in my case). IC is good, MC is not right now.

You do what works for you. MC saved my marriage. You just have to make sure you find a good one.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 3:10 PM, April 28th (Friday)]

I must apologize. In my last post, I make a mistake that I should know to avoid.

Infidelity is all about people and human behavior and although we might be able to predict with unnerving accuracy how people behave then we can’t do so with 100% certainty. I make the mistake of insisting no marriage can reconcile while there is still contact. That is wrong because maybe some marriage could.

13YearR claims to have successfully reconciled with her husband who is in regular contact with his former affair partner. I don’t have any reason to contest her claim.

But I still think ongoing contact makes reconciliation immensely harder.

Hurtpenguin – If your wife wants to cheat she will cheat. You can’t prevent it. Even if OM leaves the job or they work at separate companies then if they want to be together they can be together. The goal of NC is to remove temptation from your wife and to offer you better assurances. What I want to offer you are methods and tools to help you create the conditions that decrease the chances of her cheating and increase your chances of reconciliation. I know that for new members then the actions we recommend might sound draconian, but in fact they strongly increase your relationships chances of surviving.

I once managed a guy who had an office affair. The OW (who was a friend of mine) was in another department but the two of them had a short affair. His wife found out and he ended the affair. I know for a fact they ended the infidelity and I know they respected NC as much as they could. About 6-8 months later the OW left the company. The WH told me that despite his best efforts reconciliation only truly started once the OW left the company.

You must evaluate HP how you will deal with YOUR insecurities and worried when WW is traveling, when she works late, when she doesn’t answer the phone, when she must be in contact with OM due to work issues, how you will act at the annual office party, how you will behave when you drop by the office and everyone gives you the eye…

[Because HP – no matter what your wife thinks then the chances are IMMENSE the office-gossip already knows of the affair… We had a comparable case here on SI less than a year ago, where both the BH and the WW insisted nobody at the office knew, turned out everyone knew… Was your wife and the OM the only people at that conference? Other colleagues? Think nobody else noticed?]

hurtpenguin, you still with us, buddy?

Hey everyone thanks for checking in, I am indeed still here but have been taking the time to read and re-read many of the posts. I feel very grateful that there are people who would take the time out of their day to give their opinion to a total stranger in a helpful and constructive way.

I've had some time to process a lot of what I have been feeling and deciding if I want to put in the time and effort to begin moving forward to save my relationship. Based on how I feel, and her efforts and actions SINCE D-Day I believe we are going to try and work through this in the direction of R. Not that we are 100% deciding to R, but she has said and shown that she is committed to doing what it takes to work towards helping me heal and deal with her own issues that led to her destructive choices.

It had come out in one of our MC sessions that she had been hoping for a while that I would do something that would give her cause to end the relationship. She had been unhappy for a while, and had stopped communicating or TRYING to work on our relationship. She gave up. She also explained that she ALWAYS believed that I never cared as much about her and that I would 100% leave her if I found out. She claims she has NO emotional tie to the AP, and that her now VERY limited interactions with him make her feel shameful, guilty and sick to her stomach and calls/texts me after. She claims even seeing the APs name in a group email makes her feel this way. As hard as it is, and as stupid as people will think I am, I do believe her. It was after this revelation that I now believe she engaged in an "exit affair".

She did surprise me by arranging for us to go to a dinner and a movie this last weekend. We were able to spend that time NOT discussing anything regarding the A, her work or the kids, but instead enjoying each others company and reminiscing about past times together. It felt good to escape all the pain and tension for a while and with my best friend and woman I love. It helped to shine a light on exactly WHAT I will be fighting for if I choose to R.

Even though we have been trying to limit discussions on heavy topics to MC sessions, we have had a few. Last night we had a huge blowout fight after I confronted her about my perception of her lack of caring that resulted in me packing up all my stuff and heading for the door. She had gotten angry when I started laying out her lying and cheating exactly as I saw it and understood it. (I was angry and spared no detail of every encounter and every lie she told me to facilitate) I wanted her to hear exactly what she did repeated back to her. I needed her to understand the gravity of the situation. Something must have clicked in her because she began begging me to stay and was crying hysterically, apologizing for for everything she did, for what she was putting me through, and for her reaction to my pain. I told her that if she wasn't willing to help me through the emotional turmoil that SHE thrust upon me before worrying about her own feelings, that we would not be able to move past anything. Later on that night I went for a walk late at night, unsure when or IF I was even going to return home until my phone began to explode with messages from her begging me to come home and talk. We had another talk (less explosive) and she showed me some stuff she had been reading and researching and told me she was committed to being more active in MY healing process. I spent some time crying in the shower, and after she spent the rest of the night by my side, which is exactly what I wanted/needed.

This morning I woke and she had taken care of the kids and gotten them off to school and left me a note:

"I just want you to know I love you w/all my heart. I'm so terribly ashamed that I acted so selfishly, and have made you feel so terrible. I hope you know how valued you are and how committed I am to this. I know I don't show it enough, or in the way that you always need but I PROMISE I will try harder. I love you and will miss you like crazy today."

She has texted me non-stop today with apologies and reassurances and has set up both her and myself with IC appointments this week. She has researched and found an AA group to attend as well this week and also sent me a copy of her completed resume and prospective job opportunities. (some in other cities) When she talks about the future she always uses words like "we" and "together" and "our family". For the first time last night when I looked her in the eyes I saw her personal pain, and true empathy for what I was dealing with. I also could see and feel the love that she has for me and our relationship. She also now keeps her ring on 24/7 refusing to take it off to sleep or shower. She seems to be doing all the right things, and as optimistic as this makes me I still know that this is indeed, as everyone puts it, a marathon. I hope we both have the stamina to continue to work at this with as much vigor in the coming weeks/months.

I thank you all again for your words of wisdom and encouragement. They do not fall on deaf ears. I am making concerted efforts to take care of myself and look forward to IC in hopes that I can get some clarity on other issues for myself.

In response to a few questions from Bigger ( whose posts were absolutely fantastic I read them over and over and I thank you again):

From a financial standpoint separation would be worst case scenario: I put all my eggs into this relationship basket and literally everything is in her name. I could be left with nothing but what's packed up in my suitcases right now in the closet. This was one of the scariest things I've been dealing with since D-Day. Having spent 13 years building a great life and ending up with nothing. But I woke up the other day and realized you know what...I'm OK with having to start over. I will be OK.

With regard to our kids, I do believe we could make it work if it came to it. I did tell her, however,if we went that route I wouldn't be able to continue contact with her, that it would be too painful, and that most likely a third party would have to be involved. When I said that I could FEEL her heart breaking and it set her into hysterical crying again. Another good sign (IMO) that she wants me in her life.

Again, I am optimistic but guarded. I am hopeful we can work together to move towards each other, but preparing to move away from her. (including contacting an attorney to discuss some of the great topics brought up by Bigger.)

Thank you again everybody, I will update later this week.

hurtpenguin,

In my previous comment, I said:

I must say, however, that you have not done yourself or your marriage any favors by giving up your career and becoming a house husband. I realize that this is not the PC thing to say, but the truth of the matter is that most women prefer a man to take care of them rather than the other way around. So, whether you decide to R or not, you should make going back to work a priority. Not being financially dependent on your WW will also help you overcome your feelings of shame for wanting to R.

Needless to say, the point was not well received by some, although, to my surprise, one or two others expressed a similar opinion. However, in light of something you said in your most recent post, I think it apropos to revisit the issue. You said:

It had come out in one of our MC sessions that she had been hoping for a while that I would do something that would give her cause to end the relationship. She had been unhappy for a while, and had stopped communicating or TRYING to work on our relationship. She gave up. She also explained that she ALWAYS believed that I never cared as much about her ...

I presume you have asked yourself why your "fiancée" would think you don't care much about her, given among other things that you have sacrificed your career for hers. Let me offer a suggestion. Most women want a mate who can provide them with physical and financial security (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/18/millennial-women-worry-about-out-earning-boyfriends-and-husbands.html). You don't. Instead, the burden is entirely on her and, possibly, the pressure of this is one of the reasons she wanted to end your relationship.

I suggest you have a conversation with her about this. Ask her if she is still comfortable with your arrangement or if she would like you to contribute more to the financial side of things.

Glad that things seem to be looking up. Remember that part of R is making changes to improve the relationship for both partners.

I agree with Alchemy here, you should indeed get your career back on track and be in a position to take care of yourself and your kids in the event that you do not R in the long run.

You have to worry about you first, what she needs from you comes long after you and the kids.

Basically if she wants you to stay in the relationship with her, she needs to be doing the hard work to prove that she is a safe partner, even to include a prenup before R is seriously discussed.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 7:53 PM, May 1st (Monday)]