SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi there...

I copied this from the guidelines:

Madhatters - Any members that are both a betrayed spouse and a wayward spouse in their current relationship are considered Madhatters on SurvivingInfidelity.com®. Madhatters, in addition to any former wayward spouses, are prohibited from posting in the Just Found Out forum. Mad-hatters are welcomed to post in the Wayward Side forum. But only from a wayward perspective.

You were NOT the Wayward AND the Betrayed in the SAME relationship. Therefore you are not a MadHatter, by this definition. It should be just fine for you to post here and get support. Welcome. Sorry you have reason to be here. You will get lots of good advice and support!

Buster, post wherever you feel most comfortable. With only minor exceptions, we can all post wherever we'd like.

I apologize buster.

Not a problem.

Taking a night off off talking. Need some recovery time and sleep.

You appear to be calm it the approach you are taking with your wife. Experience has taught me to be cold, calm, and calculating in bad situations. But I am also a little vengeful sometimes. I wonder what you wife's answer would be if you ask her would it be alright, for you, to have an affair the next time you are stressed and see someone that appears exciting, and you are feeling greedy and selfish (her words). Cheaters appear to never consider how they would feel if their spouse had an affair. What would be her answer? By the way, you cheated on an old girlfriend and not your wife. It was still wrong but I think cheating in a marriage is a tad worse. I wish you well.

If you really want her affair to be over you'll contact her boyfriend's wife. She has lied to you for months and now you are implicitly trusting her that she's telling the truth.

Telling the other spouse is the 100% best effective way to end their relationship. Really there isn't much else a close second.

It's also ethically the right thing to do.

I truly respect but disagree with anoldlion. I don't think anyone has any idea what it's like to be cheated on unless they've been through it. Would you agree, Buster?

She may see this as her giving him a free pass to do what he wants. The score will never be even.

It's one thing, knowing it's going to happen. It's another to be hit, out of the blue.

I'm not vengeful person and I don't want to become one. We have talked about the situation where I would cheat. Her response was that she fucked-up beyond anything I could ever do. She said she would for sure feel hurt, but doesn't think she would have any right to be mad at me. I also asked if she would grant me a hall pass and she said it would kill her but she doesn't think she's in position to not grant me one. Just to clarify, I am not planning a RA or using a hall pass even if she would give me one. And hurting her because she hurt me won't make any hurt go away and won't fix/repair/heal anything in my opinion.

I'm still not planning to contact OBS. I hate getting pulled into the secret and I know I'm being selfish, but I am thinking of worst case scenarios here. As far as I know, he has been distancing himself from their marriage in preparation of inevitable discovery and that looks like an exit plan to me. I do not want a single OM running around. And I don't know what kinda crazy might come out. I'm not happy with this, but am not planning to change my approach. I know I'm taking a risk here when it comes to affair continuing, but that is more or less informed risk I'm taking.

Hi Buster.

Do you have a full timeline from her yet? How often they met up for PA. Where they want and when. What they did?

Also, has she actually outlined what she will do to become a safe partner for you going forward? Even written it down, reviewed it with you, and signed it?

What about IC? Is she in it to figure out why this happened so it never happens again?

Was alcohol involved in most of these rendezvous ? If so, is she addressing that issue if she easily crosses boundaries when intoxicated?

Also have you reviewed how she will handle it if she runs into the AP in the future? How she will act. What she will say?

Finally, have you explicitly talked about proper responses to others that may approach and 'hit on' her in the future. She needs to know proper way to respond. Even role playing can help here.

Good luck.

Buster, I know you recently joined, but have you had an opportunity to read much on this site? The reason I ask is that the approach you are taking is often less successful than those who take bold action when they discover they have been betrayed. If you want R, I believe you should consider some revisions to your plans to improve your chances of being successful.

Please read as many stories as possible, in particular stories about WW from the BH perspective. You will see that many BH suffered until they realized they had to risk losing their M in order to save it. Once they accepted this, they drew a line in the sand and made their WW choose. Sometimes it is an exit A, but more often than not the WW finally understands what she stands to lose and becomes an active partner in R.

By not outing the affair to the obs, you're enabling it. You are a part of the "Big Secret" as you put it.

If you were in the obs shoes, what would you want?

Yeah, I got the timeline and I trust it as it's quite easy for me to check it. I know the exact dates, I know where they met for PA, I know which restaurants they had lunch and when. And I think I need to repeat that the PA is not my main concern. I did get the details, but it's not my main concern.

She has stated what she wants to do to become a safe partner again. I'm not sure if limiting her freedom is the right way, but right now she has put herself on a short leash. She is answering all the questions I have, she has been accountable since the D-day, she is not pushing back when I need to talk. Marriage counseling is coming up. She says that she is committed, but continuous acts will need to prove this. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what exact acts I'm looking to see and when.

Alcohol was not involved. She doesn't drink much and if she did during the affair, I would have definitely noticed that. There was only one occasion of PA when she could have gotten intoxicated without me noticing it.

So far it's absolute NC. No contact of any sort and walk away if he happens to walk in the same coffee shop during lunch for example. No talking, no contact...

My stance on guys hitting on her in general hasn't changed. Not worried in general, but she will not have lunch with any men alone. She agrees that she cannot have any "private lunches" or other similar meetings with any men.

I have drawn lines in the sand, I'm not sure how dramatic they need to be, but so far she has chosen to stay on my side of the sand. When I read other stories and when they don't reflect anything I see at home, I have hard time seeing what I can pick from them, but I do keep reading.

By not outing the affair to the obs, you're enabling it. You are a part of the "Big Secret" as you put it.

If you were in the obs shoes, what would you want?

Do you somehow think I don't understand this?

I would prefer to know, or if I was suspecting or even knowing there is an affair, I would like to get a confirmation on this.

But here's the risks I see:

- OBS will divorce OM. OM doesn't need to worry about his M any longer.

- OM loses his mind. He knows where we live, he knows where I work, he knows where my wife works, he knows where our kids go to school. I don't know how he will react. His reaction might very well be revenge.

- I think this would be just my revenge. Being vengeful is not part of my personality and I wasn't planning on adding it either.

- I have no idea what OBS would do. Maybe she would seek revenge against me or my wife.

- I could probably paint few more scenarios if I needed

Right now I haven't been able to answer how I would mitigate the possible risk with contacting the OBS.

- OBS will divorce OM. OM doesn't need to worry about his M any longer.

If all that is holding your marriage together is his marriage and inability to pursue your wife, then this is just saving you six months of false reconciliation.

- OM loses his mind. He knows where we live, he knows where I work, he knows where my wife works, he knows where our kids go to school. I don't know how he will react. His reaction might very well be revenge.

There are over 50,000 users here and this would be the first. You call the police the second that anything revenge-focused comes out. But again, this would be the first time in the history of the largest infidelity resources in the history of the human race that this has happened. He may have some "big boy" words for you, but that just opens him to a restraining order

- I think this would be just my revenge. Being vengeful is not part of my personality and I wasn't planning on adding it either.

It's not revenge. It's compassion for the OBS. It's compassion for the situation you are in. It's you taking action on trying to save the marriage. IT IS THE BIGGEST SINGLE TOOL IN YOUR TOOLBOX RIGHT NOW. you not exercising it is you saying that you are not willing to use every tool at your disposal to see if there is something that can be saved here.

- I have no idea what OBS would do. Maybe she would seek revenge against me or my wife.

Probably not. But then again, why are you protecting her. She's a big girl and her actively trying to ruin someone else's marriage because she fell in love with someone else's husband and selfishly pursued it without regards to consequences is exactly what should happen. In fact, many people, during exposure, recommend giving OBS you wife's contact information. (I'm on the fence with that) But having her stand up and taking every single consequence is how she changes as a person. People don't change by not facing consequence. If she is insulted from consequences then she has less incentive to change.

Please go read betrayedks99's thread. It is within five posts of yours here on the front page. Read the last few posts of his.

So you let your fears justify keeping obs in the dark and paticipating in the cover up of the bomb that blew all your lives apart? Really? Really?

Exposure is the single best thing you can always do. Watch how quickly he tosses your ws under the bus to save his ass. He's going to be way too busy dealing with the fallout to bother with you.

Sounds like you have thought this through and she is working towards being a safe partner.

I agree with outing to the OBS but it seems others have covered that with you better than I can.

My only remaining concern is that WW do IC before you guys do any MC.

If she can't figure out why she did this first I dont she can be a full and worthy participant in MC.

Good luck.

I'm not going to try to change your mind as I see you have pretty much taken your stance on the situation. However, If it were me I would tell your WW that you will reserve your choice to have her take a poly in the future. This serves twofold:

1) It makes her realize that hiding things is not the way to go.

2) If in the future you see things differently from her actions it gives you another option.

There have been many times where I have seen the WW have a sudden epiphany and more truth comes out after hearing this from the BH.

I don't want to be piling on here, but as sharkman and others have said, not exposing it will come back to haunt you.

I had this conversation with a very good, intelligent, religious co-worker when I was in your position. He advised against it, and I struggled with his advice for a few days. I exposed and I am convinced it was the right thing to do.

If the AP wants revenge, there are remedies, and the consequences do not justify him acting on them. In deed, exposing has a way of intimidation on those that are pursuing your wife.

If you are afraid that your wife may leave if you do, better to find out right now than later.

Perhaps the OBS is looking or needing a reason to get out of their marriage, you might be doing her the biggest favor ever.

In any case, letting her know is the right and moral thing to do.

[This message edited by twisted at 10:44 AM, May 18th (Thursday)]

Good points on exposing. I just have hard time trusting anonymous forum users vs. my gut. Especially when you say not having to worry about retaliation when I have witnessed retaliation in affair situation myself.

But I have not made final decision on exposing.

But yeah...if my marriage hinges on exposing the affair to OBS, because otherwise the affair stays alive or unmarried AP running around quite possibly seeking to re-establish contact it's pretty much fucked either way.