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I still think that by staying in regular contact with her you send her a clear and actual message that you are very hopeful to reconcile with her, and that your divorce is just a scare tactic you use to force your spouse to be nice to you and show you some love, and affection, and respect.

And from your posts it appears to me that she is steadily regaining control over this situation – you already feel some guilt about being "emotionally inaccessible", you already play on her terms by listening to her "explanations" and asking her a video call. It all clearly says to her: "I do really care about you and I'm more than willing to reconcile, just show me some actions and I will stop this divorce".

And I understand your feelings. It's not easy to change your life patterns. But I strongly encourage you to stay aware of your own feelings and fears, and rationalizations, because the only way I know to regain genuine peace and happiness is to become and remain fully aware and honest with yourself about your feelings, fears, values, and motifs. Good luck.

I get that. It's very hard not to listen to someone when they are with your kids and they start talking to you. I'm not some hardened person that can just say nope I'm not listening. It's just not who I am. If she hadn't said a word to me last night and left I would not have reached out to her.

I'm not trying to be emotionally accessible to her. If she called me right now about something I know that I wouldn't speak to her about anything.

Yes I am listening to her timeline or asking her questions because it's the first time she's been willing. It's not like I'm calling her up and saying hey I am here for you if you want to talk and I'll always be here. I was also on the phone with my attorney yesterday making sure I was doing everything right in regards to what I want out of the divorce in terms of custody and so on.

Sure I asked her for a video chat because if she refused, well that was one more nail truly in the coffin so to speak, I was actually expecting that to happen. But I think she is on her best behavior right now and all that could change in a heart beat.

I can sit here and tell you that right now I am not willing to R. I am not going to stop the D. I would need some sort of holy intervention for that at this point. I look at the big picture of everything that has gone on the last 7 months and just wow.

Even something as simple as this. When she said something to me about getting tested last night she said it was expensive. I simply said I am sure something could be figured out. This morning it took me 2 seconds to find a free testing center, so do I believe she is at all serious in her efforts, no.

Just like others have said about the job. If she truly felt I was the love of her life and that our family was all that mattered, sure she might be not thrilled about leaving her job but she would understand and go through with it. So do I think she is serious in her efforts, no.

Sure their is a small piece of hope in me, and to be honest I don't even know why. Whenever I write or talk to someone or just think about what's gone on that little bit of hope is extinguished until I get that little inkling of "what if?"

Maybe I am not doing things 100% the right way as I've said. But this is my first time and hopefully my last at this and not only am I trying to keep myself sane, but my kids, and also trying to keep things non-confrontational so that maybe the D goes a little easier and can be swung more in my direction. I know I can be non-confrontational by just not talking to her but it doesn't work right now on Wednesday and Thursdays because of the kids. Up until she gave me that letter I hadn't said shit to her other than you are welcome for the papers. Now, yes we talked about the letter, I told her things that I'd need to even remotely consider just even the idea of taking a look at moving toward R thinking there wouldn't be a chance in hell she'd do any of it.

Maybe I fail a little on the spectrum of should and should nots in terms of how I am handling things. I can only say that I am handling them to the best of my ability in my situation and I think I am doing a pretty ok job as I've been doing pretty ok and more importantly my 2 kids have been thriving.

I agree with words point. You are the man in the arena so will have to act as you see best. But what I see is you slowly getting to a place where every move you make is like contacting a tar baby. Do you know that old story? You put your hand on it and can't get it out. Than you put your other to push it away and can't get it out, then your foot etc.

If you are seriously wanting to extricate yourself from this loser, the last thing you should be doing is hinting that she needs to quit working. You should not be keeping tabs on where she is or what she wants or what she is thinking.

She needs to do this stuff on her own, without prompting. Especially going total NC. And in this market, getting a new job is not hard. So what if she likes being the administrative assistant to the deputy department head of the division of paper clips, or whatever the hell she does? She should not be bargaining with you, she needs to act.

Again, do what you want and what you need. What you tell us screams that you are her plan b. Plan b generally fails just like plan a, because the planner is messed up.

Ok so I get that. I think the only thing I've done to keep tabs on her is the call last night. I've not reached out to her at all unless it was in regards to the kids.

I am trying not to hint but I guess it could be taken that way. When she asked about her job I simply said I am not telling you what to do, yes I expanded a little and I probably should have left it at that. I will tell you without getting into it that her job is a very specific skill set and there isn't another opportunity right down the street or something like that. More or less she'd have to leave her career or move. Not that I feel bad about any of that.

It's not like I googled free std tests in the area and sent her the links and said here baby i found something so you can prove to me that you give two fucks.

Not that it's what is going on or it's intended but I feel like I'm getting a lot of shit for being a human being. There are stories I've read here of people a year, sometimes more, sometimes less, in recovery where from everything said their WS isn't doing shit and they are still hopeful. I know WW isn't doing shit. I can see it with my own eyes, and feel it in my bones and my gut. I read it in the insincere words. I am three months out and not hopeful at all except for a passing what if. Just doing the best I can for me and my kids. Learning on the fly in a situation I was never prepared for. Being in only 3 months I am going to make mistakes and maybe I am right now, but I'm trying.

I have no plans on talking to her today in the slightest if anyone is interested. There is no need for us to have contact so we won't. I am going to the gym, to get my kids bike fixed, grocery shopping, maybe I'll mow the lawn, get some work done. Maybe hit up tinder....nah jk.

Learning on the fly in a situation I was never prepared for. Being in only 3 months I am going to make mistakes and maybe I am right now, but I'm trying.

dost, we have all been there. For the most part we just make this shit up as we go.

For all of us that go to great lengths to keep our lives planned and on track, avoiding life's pitfalls and drama, thanks to all the WS's that drop this turd on us.

Trying to fight your way out of this is supposed to build character, if you're strong enough.

Dost, glad to read your most recent posts. I think you are seeing things quite clearly. My feedback, and it seems like most feedback yes I've received, is focused on minimizing the impact of an rose color that may creep into the lenses you use to view your WW. You're doing a good job of keeping that in check. It'd be easy to fall into that trap, so good for you for staying strong.

I think until you see some glaring evidence of actions on her part, you carry forward with divorce at normal pace. You know her words are meaningless at this point, so I wouldn't put too much stock in them. You may still be Plan B for all you know. If you start seeing real action on her part, you can slow it down if you choose. If not, get divorced, and if she figures shit out afterwards, you can start dating her again, or not, its up to you.

I guess I look at it now and think about telling XWH#2 all the things I needed to be able to R after DDay#1. What I should have done is let him figure it out for himself. If he had spent 1/2 the time doing research on how to fix himself and the marriage that he spent spewing out love bombs and lies we might have been able to R. The thing was he still wanted me as his wife and OW on the side when he could sneak and cheat again. I was telling him what he needed to do and he would do just enough to appease me for a little while longer. I blame myself for not being strong enough to just let the D go through when I first filed it after DDay#1. I think if we have to spell it out to them, then that shows they are not R material.

She broke it and now it is up to her to fix it and herself. She knows she needs testing and she knows she needs to quit her job if she wants to even start trying to fix herself and the marriage. She needs IC to figure out what made her think an A was going to solve her issues instead of destroying lives and your family. Until she can take the lead in solving her own low self-esteem, she will never be a safe partner.

It is hard to have that hope that so many of us BS's had. We keep hoping they will "get it" and realize what they have done, but most never do. They rationalize it and blame the BS because they are not happy, never realizing they are really not happy with themselves. I think at this point you know deep down that she still doesn't get it and that you should carry forward with your plan for D. Who knows? Maybe she will start figuring it out before the D is final.

Unlike some other scenarios WW is living outside. And I think Dost has no way of knowing whether she goes to POS apartment and as he says they can be more discreet now.If that is the case any engaging has to be stopped right away. How about Dost asking her to let him putting all types of tracking devices in car and phone.

Again this is a very frustrating situation where there is no proper way to know if they are still meeting. Is there anyway to get this cleared with no uncertainty. POS living away from home is a big red flag. One way is Dost visiting WW with short notice where ever she says she is living now ask her about this. It is hard to lie in such a environment. This way there can be a closure one way or the other

Above all hope this interaction with WW does not affect Dost emotionally

Goalong, all the things you suggest are relevant, but in this situation only if they came from her without Dost's suggestion. Her actions need to match her words without his direction. If he simply tells her what to do and she complies he is setting himself up for false R, IMO.

As someone else said, we've all been there, done that. You are flying by the seat of your pants. We're here to try and at least give you some in flight advice.

If you really mean this:

I can sit here and tell you that right now I am not willing to R. I am not going to stop the D. I would need some sort of holy intervention for that at this point. I look at the big picture of everything that has gone on the last 7 months and just wow.

Then for this/these situations,

I get that. It's very hard not to listen to someone when they are with your kids and they start talking to you. I'm not some hardened person that can just say nope I'm not listening. It's just not who I am. If she hadn't said a word to me last night and left I would not have reached out to her.

let the phrases, "I'm sorry to hear that," "That's nice," and "OK," become your mantra.

For example:

When she said something to me about getting tested last night she said it was expensive.

I'm sorry to hear that.

If she truly felt I was the love of her life and that our family was all that mattered,

Ok, that's nice.

[She's] not thrilled about leaving her job

I'm sorry to hear that.

As for:

Sure their is a small piece of hope in me, and to be honest I don't even know why. Whenever I write or talk to someone or just think about what's gone on that little bit of hope is extinguished until I get that little inkling of "what if?"

That's just your heart lagging behind your head. For some reason the heart always seems to bring up the rear in this marathon. Slacker...

[This message edited by WornDown at 11:59 AM, June 6th (Tuesday)]

Totally agree that OM having his own place now is a huge red flag. That was why I tried to catch last night if she actually went back to where she said she was going. Where she is staying right now is about an hour away so a spontaneous drop while possible may not be worth my time at this point.

I don't know where he was staying prior to this buy OM has been out of his house longer than WW. WW claims their only interaction after DDay has been talking and to give each other "emotional support." Again fuck off I just don't believe that for one second.

I am trying to live by those mantras but sometimes verbal diarrhea ensues although I have learned to control that a bit better.

It's possible he's staying with her where she's at. He'd just have to step out of frame.

Whatever advice we all give you here dostl, is only us trying to save your heart breaking in the future.

There ........ you've been brave enough to say on this Forum that there is a "small" part of you that still wants, longs for R.

Please understand, probably 85% of us wished for the same at your point in time.

All the flack, advice, support, pointers, 2x4s that are coming your way is simply that some of us cannot bear to see you devastated again, if things don't work out the R way.

Most of us know that although we might want to save you from further hurt, that for most of us - the only way through this shit-storm called infidelity, is to experience our own way through it.

I too (although I talked the talk here on S.I), longed for my STBXWH to "get it".

He didn't.

Not until it was too late.

Now, I think I might just have a remorseful WS........

I just don't want him anymore.

Be true to YOU dostl.

This is YOUR life.

YOUR wife.

YOUR family.

Don't let a bunch of well-meaning internet strangers become the be-all and end-all.

But please keep posting, and please keep reading.

Sending you strength and hugs,

MOB x

Thanks. I appreciate that. I never mean to come off unappreciative or anything like that. I've said it a million times off at least 5 that I wouldn't be any where I am now without the advice given here. It's been true, it has been right. The knowledge everyone here has after being through such a terrible experience has guided me to do the right things for myself and my kids.

I know what's best for me. But it still being somewhat new. Only 3 months I do waver. Some days I have steadfast determination, others I feel swayed by the breeze. But deep down I know the person she was will probably never come back. I look at the person over the last 7 months and it just sickens me.

Worn is absolutely spot on. Please reread it, repeatedly.

I am trying to live by those mantras but sometimes verbal diarrhea ensues although I have learned to control that a bit better.

Because you are trying to change years of ingrained habit of talking to someone you care/cared for deeply. It is hard, and it takes a while before your heart catches up to your head.

Now, reread what Worn said again.

Short, concise responses are all that is necessary. Doing that is totally non-confrontational and civil. But that doesn't mean you have to show her emotions. Save those for your alone times. This takes practice, and you are still new to the process, but you are doing great. Just keep working on building those firm boundaries. It will get easier the more you do it.

I feel like I'm getting a lot of shit for being a human being.

Not at all, and I am sorry you feel that way. We have simply walked in your shoes and know a lot of the pitfalls. The general advise is just to give you some strategies to help you get through this the best way possible. But as with anything said on SI, take what you can use and leave the rest. Don't take it personally as everyone is truly on your side.

As for what she does about her job, her OM, or anything else, it should no longer be your concern. You have filed for D and are not interested in R at this time. That means you focus on you and your kids. Period. She could go out and fuck the mailman tomorrow and it should not matter to you. She could be infected with 100 STDs right now and it should not matter to you. Filing for D doesn't mean you become sub-human in your concerns, but it does mean you redirect your focus to the things that DO matter - you and your kids. But that takes the dreaded time and practice. It doesn't happen overnight just because you filed.

I tried to be as non-confrontational as possible when I was divorcing. My xhole is a psychopath so I had good reason to utilize that strategy. Because of that I bucked a lot of the conventional wisdom on SI because I knew what would/would not work in my case. My choice in strategy worked as we D amicably with no attorneys and I got what I wanted. That was a win for me. However, I DID do exactly what WornDown illustrated above. I wanted no insight into xhole's life just as I didn't want him to have any insight into my life. That meant the bare minimum of communication and short, concise responses with no emotion. It was just as much for my healing as it was to shut him out. I needed to learn to NOT want to talk to him after almost 30 years of daily interaction. Pulling back helped me break that habit so it was tremendously healing. Eventually, that will become your new habit. Civil, but not friendly.

I think you are doing great dost. Do whatever you need to do to get through this. We ARE here for you!

let the phrases, "I'm sorry to hear that," "That's nice," and "OK," become your mantra.

LOL, I faked my way through many a conversation with those very words. Meanwhile, a hampster was running around a wheel in my brain.

I feel like my hamster might be drunk and falling off the wheel at times.

LOL, I faked my way through many a conversation with those very words. Meanwhile, a hampster was running around a wheel in my brain.

Exactly. That's why you use those phrases like a mantra.

Just keep repeating them, and not the stuff in your head that you want to throw at her bullshit. Eventually, you do start to get to where you don't care. Eventually.

In the meantime, your flat answers show her that she's not going to get a rise out of you and she stops trying to bait you. Eventually.

Just keep repeating it...

Dostl - I've been in your shoes. Hoping for any little bit of remorse. unfortunately I took the morsels I was given and she just kept on doing what she was doing. For 7 years.

If you know you want to D, you have to just keep repeating it to yourself, until her promises stop renting space in your head telling you "this time she means it"