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We are almost 2 months out from divorce....My exWW which was/is a full blown alcoholic has been extremely nice and cooperative with me. It almost seems like a 180 from the crap show I was in 8 months ago. I know from reading about alcohol addiction that it can take up to 6-12 months for a person to think clearly again. I almost see the old personality prior to addiction coming out. Even to the point she is texting me video of our child.... and asks for advice on daily stuff.

So here is my question.

How do you know what true remorse is?

We had a convo about the affair the other night and this is what she wrote. I would like some input.

"Ok I get it .... I know that I ruined our family. I can't change the past ....I understand you having rough days...Ive shown you that I have them too. Maybe for our childs sake we should still do counseling. It won't change our situation but we need to get past this for our child. I am truly sorry but there is nothing I could ever do to fix what I've done. I will never take 100% of the blame but I know what I did is inexcusable. "

I wrote "Yes I'm responsible for your actions....that sounds logical to me"

She wrote.... "No you didn't make me do what I did but I told you many times how I felt and you didn't seem to give a F"

Thoughts?

This is not remorse. It sounds like regret and you can't make something work from regret. Remorse would be her totally taking the blame for the A and fixing herself from her addictions. Only then could you possibly work on the marriage itself as the marital problems also need attention. Those problems are not the reason for the cheating and lying.

Too many times waywards want to blame the marriage and the BS for their choices. You did not hold a gun to her head and make her cheat. She did that without any input from you. This is where she has to own it. There were other options, but she choose this one. That's all on her.

Why are you asking this? Are you thinking about possibly renewing a relationship with her?

Just curious, as most people that Divorce just talk about kids and finances with their ex. She wants to do couples counseling post-divorce? That's new.

I am troubled by her closing line, that she is blaming you for not caring how she feels.

My now XWW went from expression of remorse to an angry rage that I was focusing on my feelings in the aftermath of her betrayal, and not hers.

Now she's blaming me for everything, which seeming includes her infidelity, for her suicidal threats to our daughter, and has taken every lesson from AA and turned it on its head.

Every situation is unique, but I would advise extreme caution due to her alcoholism and her focus on her feelings and anger that you weren't properly focused on her in the aftermath of her destructive decisions.

I think you divorcing her was the right move. She sounds kind of awful. Even my head-up-the-ass WH who isn't at all remorseful at least admits that it had nothing to do with me, and has more to do with his own issues.

That's messed up that she would blame you for that.

I'm not sure I understand. Is she asking you to go to counseling to be a better parent?

There is no remorse within those statements.

"Ok I get it .... I know that I ruined our family. I can't change the past ....I understand you having rough days...Ive shown you that I have them too. Maybe for our childs sake we should still do counseling. It won't change our situation but we need to get past this for our child. I am truly sorry but there is nothing I could ever do to fix what I've done. I will never take 100% of the blame but I know what I did is inexcusable. "

All she's doing is offering up excuses, despite it being "inexcusable". There is nothing in there that says she gives a shit about how this has affected you. All she's really telling you to do is get over it.

Thank you everyone....It helps to have others read thru the BS ...... ya she is suggesting post divorce couples counselling?

[This message edited by sam1 at 2:47 PM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

She wrote.... "No you didn't make me do what I did but I told you many times how I felt and you didn't seem to give a F"

My guess is that Counseling would be more for her to voice her opinions on what you did wrong in the marriage. She knows you blame her A and the drinking... this would be her chance to vent about what you did wrong and offer excuses for her behavior... with a third party present. It's not remorse.

You're probably both right. You're not responsible for what she did but when she tried to tell you her feelings you probably did blow her off. It happens. If you're D then why worry about it now? Water under the bridge. If you two can't get along then just go NC as much as possible and only speak regarding the kids.

Thank you again everyone!!

This is why I post here lol

Did she really and truly tell you her feelings? My X tries to say these kinds of things to me. The truth is, he didn't say many of these things to me. When he would say something, it was to bash my inability to be this 1950s housewife who also works and makes the same amount of money as him. Did she ever say "we need to work on this or I am going to cheat on you?" Chances are she didn't. It's not your fault.

There are WSs that can't accept that their best chance of reconciliation or at least a truly clean conscience is to put whatever pain aside that caused them to cheat and focus on their aggrieved partner's pain. When they cannot demonstrate that simple level of self control and empathy, it tells you they are not a good gamble for reconciliation.

That's not remorse. She wants to make herself feel better by making some of it your fault.

I'm in a similar situation to husburned in that my stbxw went from admitting regret in her affairs to angrily blaming me for everything that went wrong with our marriage.

What your ex is expressing is regret, not remorse. When someone is truly remorseful they don't continue to point fingers at why they did what they did. They accept that no matter what they may have had going on in their life, their decision to cheat, drink whatever it may be is soundly in their lap. Not the results of anothers actions.

My stbxww blamed depression, childhood trauma and multiple other things as her initial reasons for cheating. Never truly OWNING what she did. Now as we are getting divorced it is all my fault. I should have tried harder to win her back, I unfairly didn't just forget all she did. Basically its all my fault.

She still will not own HER actions.

As far as post-D counseling, I'd tell her to seek her own and you will seek yours. This has nothing to do with her wanting to parent better. It is for her to continue to blame you for everything so she doesn't feel so bad about herself. See there...Sam1 went to counseling with me and admitted the destruction of the marriage was his fault because he was a bad husband. Don't fall for it. You are D'd and need to quit having these heart to hearts with her. Again, she is not remorseful.

Not your circus, not your monkeys anymore.

So,

I think it's good that your post divorce relationship with your child's mother is improving, becoming more civil, etc.

I have found the same happening with my ex. And yeah, it can get you (or her) thinking that maybe you should think about reconciliation. But please remind yourself where you are and how you got there... the past can't be undone, and it takes a huge amount of effort for people to change. Best to move forwards not backwards.

My advice... work on your post-divorce co-parenting relationship. Skip the couples therapy and don't revisit anything about your past relationship with her in a group session (leave that for your individual therapy exploration to learn from your past marriage).

But you could potentially find a therapist to help mediate or work through co-parenting issues if that would help... not sure if it would.

I don't know where to start but here is a quick update for all. Things were going pretty good for awhile....I have been dealing with divorce the best I can trying to heal from this trauma.

So lately I have been getting weird text msgs from her in the middle of the night. 1 am, 2am, 4 am. Always when she is with our son. Most are just strange jokes or videos but Saturday I got a message that says...."Random thoughts in the middle of the night but how is it ok that you went all out for xmas (this is July) last year and you didn't do that when we were together. I'm not trying to start a fight but you also painted his room but wouldn't do that before. You need to keep this in mind for any future girls because these are things that build a female up" I'm reading this thinking WTF. Unfortunately I bit and a full argument started.

How none of this would of happened if it wasn't for X,Y,Z. She never wanted to be with someone else until I treated her like shit and made her second. If you would like me to tell you every single reason that I did what I did I can but we are divorced so it doesn't matter. How I fd her on the prenup and the only reason I got it was I knew I was going to leave her. Her and my son will be living in the ghetto with what she has left and what she can afford. etc etc etc

Woe is me comments.

I came back with you betrayed your son, husband and marriage and no one else is in control of those decisions but you. You are also an alcoholic and can try and shift the blame all you want...it must be easier than looking at what's broken inside oneself.

I really wish I didn't bite into the conversation. I truly thought she was turning the corner and maybe was remorseful. Wishful thinking ....addicts don't have remorse.

Later that day I went back and listened to an audio recording from days before DDAY. I haven't listened to this in 8 months and I did not listen to it all because I was in shock when I listened to it initially....I must have just shutdown and heard enough. Well it was an eye opener. Conversations with her mom, friends, (1) with other man. She was lying to everyone.....overheard her telling her mother she was leaving me....that she only drinks occasionally and I'm making everything up. She should never have married me and she was an idiot for doing so etc, etc. Telling her friend (the one encouraging the affair) how she's hiding her drinking from me. They are laughing about the fact she's an alcoholic (openly admitting it).....hiding her affair. Laughing about how her detox medication isn't working and she needs to get a higher dose cause she gets shakes 2 hrs later....laughing about lingerie purchase that I questioned... Saying she needs to get sober so she can leave me. Telling her AP that she needs to get a new job one where she can drink all day.

This reassured me that I didn't have a partner anymore....just an alcoholic enemy.

After I filed this is the same girl that begged me to stop and said she didn't want this.

I really wish I could have used this in court. Blatantly admitting she's a full blown alcoholic but gas lighting me on her drinking and affair.

I really wish I could play this back for her and her parents. I still may drop a few lines of what I heard to let her know I know. She still has no clue how much I know.

Once again I'm glad I took quick decisive action to get out of infidelity to protect me and my son. My gut tells me she is still in active addiction .... I just can't wrap my head around these late night msgs. It's like if she can't have me no one will.

Any thoughts on what I should do?

It just makes me sick to my stomach... I don't even recognize who this person is anymore.

I may not ever know all the details of what happened. Now she's complaining she has no money....somehow this is my fault. LOL

[This message edited by sam1 at 4:43 PM, July 10th (Monday)]