SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

LuxuryJellO It is not my intention to antagonize your WW. I aoplogize for causing you any discomfort. I clearly identify with you and with what you are going through and only want what is best for you and your marriage moving forward. The advice and support you will get here is invaluable, and I would hope that you keep posting.

It's okay. I get it. We've all been betrayed over on this side, and it hurts, man. I appreciate you wanting to help out and I'd gladly buy you a beer if you were in town. But let's just... keep it all civil from here on out. The last thing I want is for my arrival to turn this board into a he-said-she-said gossip party.

Neither of us really believed in marriage as an institution or considered it a priority.

Sounds like she still holds that position. Dogmatically.

How can marriage be a priority when you are screwing another man? For a year. And in your house?

I would suggest you read Waitedwaytoolong and ohforanewme threads.

If your gut is telling you to go, IMO go. If you stay it will eat at your soul. It will change you. And not for the better. If you know it's a deal breaker then act and plan accordingly. You are under NO obligation to wait any number of days to make a decision. You are in control now. Not her. She decided what was best for her, being in love/lust with another man.

You get to decide what is best for you.

And as almost every guy who divorces their cheating wife will tell you.....there is a world full of beautiful loving faithful women looking for a good man.

Totally agree with what ramius said up there.

Let me also clue you in on something else. When you were in a 10 year relationship, everyday was a choice to be together. When you got married, she thought that you would be there for her "for better and for worse" even if it meant the worse was having an affair. She is banking on this. She had an affair by choice. In fact many small choices that led to that ultimate boundary crossing event, as the turning off the security camera ahead of time can validate.

The burden to save the marriage is not on your shoulders. It is on hers, and so far she has shown you it is an effort for all the wrong reasons. There is no remorse. Just damage control.

You should go ahead and move forward with life, career, and divorce . If she really had remorse she would understand and get out of your way, may be even help with closure.

Luxury

Some times D is the only answer for now as the old marriage is dead and you need to find a path to happiness that doesn't include her. Of course if the answer is D she also deserves to find a way to her own happiness without you, as WS's deserve to lead happy lives as well, even if it's one where they have to live with the fact that they are proven capable of delivering devastating hurt to someone they truly love.

Sometimes that path to happiness ends up leading you back to each other somewhere down the line after she has worked on herself and you have bee in able to find separation from what occurred before D.

An alternative could be to separate and for you to spend time on your own for a while, and with friends/family, and yes even date others if you eventually want. However most BS aren't comfortable doing that without at least a legal separation as they don't want to go outside their own marital vows without a formal process.

But in doing that then you can perhaps do the same things as I described above without yet taking the formal step of D.

Of course she would also be able to pursue outside relationships, but I would tell her that if that is the case (at any time during the separation) then D would be finalized as she has already taken the opportunity to pursue that option without you knowing or having a chance to weigh in on the matter during her A.

This option would give you a chance to decide where your head is at regarding her and, with time away, and seeing what your options are, if life with her is truly something you desire anymore. Maybe set a time period on it like 1 year so as to not to leave you both in this state indefinitely.

Lastly, has she written you a letter of apology, with among other things, an explanation as to why the marriage/relationship is so important to her now, but wasn't enough before to live within the vows she took on her wedding day? Why does she want it so badly all of a sudden?

Also she should write what she would be feeling right now if the situation were reversed and it was you who had slept with a COW for over a year including at least once in your home.

If she hasn't yet I'd request that.

Good luck.

First take good care of yourself. Eat right, exercise, and try to get enough sleep. Second, you have to decide if there is a chance that you can reconcile. If there is then you and her should start cohabitating again even if you don't start out by sleeping in the same bed. This will enable you to see if she is really remorseful and is willing to "do anything" to save the marriage. Ask as many questions as you need to ask and as often as you need to ask. Give making a decision the same amount of time the affair lasted. Emphasize to her that there is no guarantees that you will stay. It's her responsibility to convince you. There will come a time when you will be ABSOLUTELY sure, without any reservations, of what you want to do. Tell her you are trying to decide whether to stay in the marriage or divorce and go "Temporarily Insane". Ask yourself, "Do I really love this woman? Will my life now, and in the future, be better with or without her?"

And last, BURN THAT COUCH. I do wish you well.

ramius: I hear ya. My gut is definitely pushing me in the D direction. I've just had many people (including the MC) telling me that I need to let time pass before making a decision. Also, once we D, we'll likely have to sell the house, and that's gonna suuuuuuuuuuck.

Stevesn: It's a good theory, but really I don't know if I could hop right back on that horse and start dating other women just like that. I mean, it's been over 13 years. Not only was the last time I was out there a pre-Tinder dating landscape, it was a *pre-smartphone* landscape!

Also, she hasn't given me a formal written apology or anything like that. She's given me plenty of verbal apologies. And at our final MC session on Tuesday, she's finally going to present me with a written timeline of the details of the entire affair.

When asked why staying married to me is so important to her now, she says that I understand her like nobody else in the world, and that she gets me, too. It's a classic "I took you for granted before, but never again!" speech, if you can imagine. ...With just a hint of "sorry I banged another man on our couch in front of the dog" thrown in.

anoldlion: Thanks for the alt. perspective. But oof, inviting her back into the house would be tough. You see, I work from home, and so it really messes with my productivity when she's around. Even just seeing her in the morning can really throw me off for half the day. But maybe I should suck it up and test it out. I'unno.

And btw, that couch is already GONE. Didn't burn it, though. Instead, I went away for Comic-Con and told her that it had better not still be there when I got back. I think she sold it for a hundred bucks on Craigslist. The poor college kid that purchased it had no idea what filth she was bringing into her apartment.

Can you rent the house out for more than the mortgage payment? If so you could split the income 50/50 for a few years and let it appreciate in value. Sell it later for a profit.

The financials of D do suck. But your mental health is worth it.

Are you reading your WW's thread?

Has the discovery of the affair brought to light other red flags about her character that you were aware of but rug swept over the years?

My wife swore too on the lives of our children that she didn't do it in our bed, even though I was positive that she had. Finally years later she fessed up.

Like you our marriage after DDay was a house of cards. My wife admitted that she was afraid that the fact she did it in our bed would be the one card to send the whole thing tumbling. Its like if someone had a gun pointed at your childs head. You would say and swear to anything not to have them pull the trigger. She sees you holding a gun to her marriage and will say anything to keep her life.

The thing is a marriage isn't a hypothetical. It can't be built on lies. I don't buy for one second that she brought him over just to have a normal night. There is nothing normal about bringing you lover into your husbands house who you claim to love with all your heart. Its a giant turn on.

I hope that she is truthful in the timeline and you get what you need to move forward in the way that is best for you.

Mind you I wasn't suggesting you legally separate 1 day and go on a date the next, but after a few months of time away, see what the world is like out there.

It may help with understanding of which direction you eventually want to go.

Even if you chose not to casually date, a legal separation may make you at least feel like you have given her some ramifications for her actions without finalizing a divorce right away.

Again she would have to know that if she starts taking up with AP or any other men during it that the D would be completed.

Sounds like you are a smart guy and will be thoughtful about whatever you choose to do.

Get the app dr.fone and run t on her telephone.

What actually ened the affair. Did she end or did he? Is she only there because he wouldnt leave his wife?

The common wisdom is that it will take two to five years to get over this with both of you working hard at it. You will never be the same and of course complete trust is hone forever with any partner.

I would make her take poly if only to find out if this is really her only affair. Also you can find out why she is really hanging around.

When asked why staying married to me is so important to her now, she says that I understand her like nobody else in the world, and that she gets me,

You know, wayward spouses/partners and their affair partners say this same shit to each other as part of their rationalization to cheat.

Again, the wrong reasons to R, for HER benefit only. What's in it for you, right?

You deserve to have a partner in life that you can trust, has never betrayed you the way she did, don't need to keep tabs on or continue investigating, can proudly say to people that you truly have each other's back. Can your STBXW ever be this person again for you?

[This message edited by Jduff at 10:26 AM, August 7th (Monday)]

Just like it is unreasonable to love 2 men at the same time, it's unreasonable to think your WW, after a year long A with sex right under your nose, with protestations of love for om, is going to instantaneously realize that she REALLY loves you, and has all along. Apparently she came to this realization the second she got caught. But hey, not to worry because she was "thinking about ending it."

Look, the 90 day timeline for a decision is not going to work. She may really believe everything she is saying while in damage control mode. But it's not real. These two spent a year exploring each other's hearts, souls and bodies. They had a bond, and it doesn't go away like flicking a switch. Nothing is going to change over 60 days. It will take years to work through this. And even a year or two out, if the om calls she may be gone. Know this. She was in love, or her version of love, and no timeline or journaling will take that away. And if she claims anything else she is lying. All the talk about you being her everything, her life partner, her mind melding soul mate, is just silly. She is like everyone else that does this. Sure she feels good with you, and you are stable. But she wanted to try something else, and did and liked it a lot so kept going with it. And she formed an emotional bond. So don't fall for the histrionics she is giving you. She doesn't know her own mind right now.

Everything you did together, every secret you shared, your very inner core has been tainted. You can get over it after a great deal of hard work on both your parts. But you can't do it half assed or by going through the motions. So if you are up for it great. If not, you know what to do.

On the one hand you have a long history, but she pissed all over that. On the other, you have no kids and 50 or more years ahead. She is going to have to demonstrate why you would want to even give her a potential chance. So far, I'm not seeing it. It's going to take a lot more than her swearing up and down that this was a freak mistake. Sorry man. Been there.

Are you reading your WW's thread?

Yes I have read her thread. She has a way of sounding like a politician's official statement after a scandal. "I know I have a lot of ground to make up, and only a tenuous chance of getting to do so, but I'm committed to doing everything I can..."

She has a knack for making swooping promises/declarations without actually saying anything specific. It makes relationship conversations difficult with her, because I wonder if she's just repeating lines she memorized from a self-help book.

Has the discovery of the affair brought to light other red flags about her character that you were aware of but rug swept over the years?

I've always known that she was a bit selfish and unappreciative. It was a character flaw that I accepted as part of the woman I loved. I guess this A has made me realize how consumed she actually was by her own wants and desires, and that it was a much bigger part of her than I had ever imagined.

Get the app dr.fone and run t on her telephone.

Deletion-Day was over a month ago now. Would the app still be able to recover anything? Also, they did a lot of their communication not by text, but via Instagram messages. Once I found out, she immediately deleted all the messages, blocked the OM's account, and then deleted the app. Would Dr. Fone really be able to recover that stuff?

What actually ened the affair. Did she end or did he? Is she only there because he wouldnt leave his wife?

The affair ended when I found out about it thanks to the BW of the OM.

I believe the OM does indeed still want to run away with her, especially now that his BW has left his ass and moved back in with her parents. However, my WW has expressed to me that she considers him the worst mistake of her life and would never go back to him, even if I divorced her. I believe that she truly feels this way right now... but I also believe that there's a greater than zero chance of her returning to him in the future if I were out of the picture.

OM did try contacting her about a week ago and it sent her into a panic. It's a visceral reaction right now-- she associates him with losing everything she's built in her life. So yes, when it comes down to it, she has "chosen" me. Even though I implored her several times to just run away with the other guy and make all of our lives easier, she wants to stay and work it.

I don't think either of you should be reading each other's threads. If you both know you're doing that then you're going to "put on a show" for each other. Censor and scrutinize everything you say so as not to hurt the other, unless you're angry and you want to hurt the other. WS's will especially censor themselves and they shouldn't. The Wayward Side section is for her to figure some things out in order to fix herself and save your marriage. She might need to get some truths out there that will crush your soul. She might have to say she doesn't love you anymore, or didn't during her A, or you're no good in bed, or whatever.

If you're trying to R then she's not going to be fully transparent because she knows you're reading and doesn't want to hurt you. This is why at this stage MC is useless but IC is very valuable.

Let the other WS's help her. You stay out of it.

I don't think either of you should be reading each other's threads. If you both know you're doing that then you're going to "put on a show" for each other.

Good advice. She has promised not to read my thread, which I appreciate. I suppose I should offer the same courtesy to her as well.

Did your sex life change at all during the year long affair? That is usually a good indicator of the depth of her feelings.

You havent mentioned children.

Others may know more about dr.fone. Google it and see wht they claim it can do with different brands of phone. It can recover things that havent been overwritten and many find things going back a long time. Not sure about whats app.

How does she know the posom?

Did your sex life change at all during the year long affair? That is usually a good indicator of the depth of her feelings.

It hadn't changed dramatically. Things were slow, though. They probably were for about two years (so, the year before the A and the year during). Well before the A started, I felt a declining degree of interest from her, so I stopped initiating because, as they say, rejection gets old. Turns out this was very damaging to her psyche, and she felt that I wasn't attracted to her anymore. I guess we both could've tried talking to each other instead. C'est la vie.

You havent mentioned children.

No kids (thank f'n god)

How does she know the posom?

lol, "POSOM." Hadn't seen that abbreviation before. Anyway, OM was a coworker of hers. They worked closely together on some late-night projects and started the EA around June of last year. The A turned physical in September. Then, he left for another job in October, but they decided to continue the A and meet up regularly from October til DDay (end of June 2017).

What is very frustrating to me is that she played things off to me this whole time like they were just friends. She would talk about OM to me, exasperated, like he were a child who was getting on her nerves. ie- she'd talk about his stupid business decisions, or laugh about how he's throwing money away on a dumb, expensive car. She texted with him all the time, brought gifts from him into our home, and would bring me loaves of bread that he baked and ask for my feedback on how they tasted so he could adjust the recipe. The whole time, I genuinely thought he was a well-meaning-if-dopey dude.

...Well, I guess one time, before the affair became physical, I did text her about him. I think she had just told me she was going to hang out with him on the weekend, and some flags went up. I reread those texts recently and they cut like a knife now.

Me: "Do I need to be worried about this guy?"

WW: "Worried how? And no, I don't think so."

Me: "I mean you're meeting up with him for 5-hour weekend meals, texting all the time, meeting up before work."

WW: "No, not like that. We can talk about it more when I get home, but like I said -- if you aren't cool with it, I won't go. If you are ok with it, I would like to."

I never felt or expressed discomfort about OM again because I genuinely trusted my wife. Oof what a mistake. Two weeks after those texts, they met up in a hotel room and started the PA for the first time.

WW: "No, not like that. We can talk about it more when I get home, but like I said -- if you aren't cool with it, I won't go. If you are ok with it, I would like to."

I would have nipped this shit in the bud right here and said I'm totally NOT cool with it. Married women don't go out with other dudes without their husbands coming along.

I wouldn't forbid her to go, that'll get you accused of trying to control her, I'd say that I can't stop you, you're an adult, again, I can only control myself and I WON'T be married to a woman that wants to go out alone with other men or who texts other men all the time right in front of my face. Sorry sister, I have too much self-respect to put up with that bullshit. Do what you want, I can't control you, but I don't have to stay in this marriage and tolerate it.

You'd be surprised how well that works. Women DO NOT respect a man that tolerates them treating him like shit. They just don't.

[This message edited by CincyKid at 11:56 AM, August 7th (Monday)]