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Just Found Out :
My Own Personal Hell

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rambler ( member #43747) posted at 5:14 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2017

The problem is that you will disappoint yourself.

You have known your FIL for 13 years. You will not get this back and this will define you.

Do the right things not for your WW but for you.

making it through

posts: 1423   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2014   ·   location: Chicago
id 7969162
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 11:34 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2017

I hate to be a case study on this topic. Like how to cross the Atlantic by the captain of the Titanic.

1985 is correct. My initial reaction was to GTFO. We have all been there so everyone here knows how hurt, humiliated and pissed off I was. I didn't though. I loved her, we were married 25 years, and even though our family was grown, it was still a family. I put my instincts aside and stayed.

In the end for me it was a deal breaker I don't think trying was a mistake, as I had and lost a lot. But staying and burying my feelings for so long was a big mistake. I talk about this in my update in the D section

Your situation is a little different. Your wife had a LTA. She put in a massive amount of work into her affair. Mine just went upstairs and spread her legs everyday for three weeks

I also had a family. I'm not telling you what to do, but if I was young and married for just a few years I would have been out of there so fast her head would have spun. Every man is different, and I am older and of a different generation, but I couldn't even fathom looking into my wife's eyes after her affair and telling her she is the one I want to raise a family with. Then you are stuck

My wife is sorry, yours is too, but actions have consequences. What did they both think would happen when we found out?

R is a personal decision. You have time to wait. You are driving the bus now. Just don't wait as long as I did

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2233   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
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Greeneyesbluezy ( member #58158) posted at 4:00 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Oh lux, what a difficult situation you are in.

My heart oftentimes speaks louder than my brain. Heart usually wins. And, honestly, heart has given me more wonderfulness than my brain ever has.

Simply, follow your heart right now towards your wife. Supporting her through her fathers surgery may not be in your heart. But, if it is, then do it. Just be you.

Tomorrows will always come . Yesterdays are gone forever. Today is the day to live and love.

I truly wish you peace and healing.

Stop right there, I already don't give a fuck.

posts: 1248   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2017
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MickeyBill2016 ( member #56459) posted at 5:12 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

It depends on how close you are to your FIL. They were part of my life for 15 years and I was pretty close my in-laws, if something similar to your situation came up I would make the effort to go see him, (is this a life or death operation?) for me and for him, not for xWW.

Just my 2 cents

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1273   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
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MidnightRun ( member #59434) posted at 5:26 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Send FIL a simple card wishing him well.

That alone will speak volumes.

posts: 1562   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2017   ·   location: CT
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ohforanewme ( member #59230) posted at 2:36 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Hi LJ

You know that I have not been an active poster on your thread. You also know why. I wanted to make absolutely certain that noting I said or did could have had undue influence on the tough decisions that have been thrust on you.

Now that you have so clearly communicated your decision, I feel that it might be in order for me to share some of my experience in the hope that you will find it supportive.

Recognising that I might still have some healing wounds and be in a vulnerable place, I try very hard to be careful which forums I post in and on what threads. I still seem to bring out the Ohfor police on occasion. I am not always sure why. I sometimes still see what, to me, looks like a little bit of bias on SI. I am most probably just seeing this from my own, very narrow, still healing perspective. I mean not to offend anyone, but I have been more than a little irked by what I see as unfair pressure being put on you in some recent posts. Even after you specifically asked for it not to be done. You still seem to be getting posts that, instead of having your healing as their only aim, are clearly aimed at desperately trying to engineer an outcome that you have said you don’t want. It is said that you will not be pressured to choose a certain path, and then this is followed directly with a bulleted list that I know I would have experienced as immensely pressuring, if it had been posted in my JFO thread. I have no vested interest in what decisions you make. I just want to share my experience as a fellow traveller and hope that it will be useful in your healing.

So no! I am not giving you any advice here, and I will not be disappointed in you, regardless of how you act or what decisions you make. I will not be disappointed if, even after you have communicated you decisions so clearly, you then change your mind. They are yours to make. I can never know your feelings, now or pre D Day. I can never know your personality type. Your moral programing. I don’t know your hopes or dreams or which of those are still possible, or which can now never be.

All I can share is some of my own, very personal, experience and hope that somehow you find some of it helpful.

I can tell you that when, after I had announced my decision to D to SI, a band of brothers, good men all, took the trouble to come onto my thread and share with me elements of their personal experiences along the following lines;

There is always a future for each of us, better than what we had. I can only guess that finding the courage and justifying the reasons in one's head for divorce is never easy, especially after decades of marriage. For me, the moment I realized I will not be able to live happily ever after knowing what my WW was capable of, and the history she made, I decided to the take the D path and felt relief. The reason was that I knew I had the power to take action and go after the type of living I thought was worthier than what I had and what I would have.

You are an honourable man who cares about his loved ones and does everything to make them happy and care for their well-being. Nobody - including you - deserves to be betrayed. When you D your WW you have nothing to be ashamed of and should be proud of yourself, you are the prize and will re-find happiness and a better life awaits you. I know from experience.

You built a life together but WW destroyed it with her betrayal, and you don't see yourself planning a future with her anymore. There's NO shame in that - in fact, for many, that is the more difficult choice. I have always thought it royally unfair that the WS can cheat and smash their spouse's world, then get busted, then plead and cry for another chance to 'save our marriage'...and suddenly, it's the BS who must ultimately make the gut-wrenching decision to end the marriage or not. On top of everything else.

I found thoughts like these tremendously encouraging.

To get to the point where I made my decision to D I traveled a torturous path. I should have known that for me infidelity was a deal breaker. I am an honourable man. I give only pure love and believe that I am entitled to settle for nothing less in return. I am a man of worth. Worthy of far more than having to live for the rest of my life in a marriage with a damaged goods wife, and having to accept only 2nd hand love. But, so much pressure was placed on me saying that R was the only desirable outcome. Should be the only goal after infidelity. This was long before I even found SI. It was in the literature, the MC, the first IC. All of society. The common consensus seems to be that the perpetrator of the A is not at fault. It is the BS that can’t find it in their heart, that is not the “big enough man”, to find forgiveness, he is the flawed one. The one responsible for the failure of the M. So I allowed myself to be pressured by society’s twisted views, and subjected the 2 of us to a path of hell. It was all BullS. If I had just been man enough, brave enough, to stand up to this pressure, to live what I believed, we both would have been in a better place now than what we are.

I was also constantly told, “wait, wait, wait”. Not one of those screaming “wait” to me was living in my hell. Once I shared with them the depths of my hell, and asked what could possibly be worth another moment in that hell, not one could truly justify to me the why I should wait,.

One more point from my personal experience. You don’t need to be still married to your WW to be able to give her care and support through life’s hard times. I have constantly provided my WW with solid support. I know, and all on SI agree, that on that front I have gone above and beyond. On the most trying days I put in place the very best support systems. Went the extra mile to make sure that good men were on hand to help her nest in her new place. While we are firmly on the path to D, very nearly at the end of that road, I still make sure that WW is supported and cared for. She fired me from this job, but I am after all, a caring human being.

On to the next point. Logistics dictated that there had to be quite some time between the day I made my decision about D and the day I could tell WW about it. The day I made the D decision, I felt tremendous relief. You have described feeling something similar. You say that it is so powerful that you are concerned your WW might misinterpret this as a sign of possible R. My WW definitely interpreted my new found feeling of relief as a possibility of a stronger R. It got her hopes up, and meant that when I told her, the crash was so much more severe. While I know that I needed the time to make sure that I could protect our 2 precious people as much as possible, I still feel guilty for this extra hurt caused to WW. I cannot say what you must do, only you know why you might want to delay. All I can share is that if your decision is as clear as you say it is, and you delay, you will be causing your WW hurt in the interim and chances are you are going to feel awful guilt.

Then the final point. Those band of brothers were right. I have discovered a new and improving me. I like this new me so much, I wish that I had gotten to meet him earlier. He is in fact, such a nice chap, people are attracted to him. Good people. All manner of people. People that one would want in their life. I now have friends where before all I had were acquaintances. I am happier than I have ever been in my entire life, and my journey to a “New Me”, is only just beginning.

TJ, this is what I wish for you. That your future can be as bright as what mine is turning out to be.

And that your journey to here, can begin as soon as possible.

All the best,

Ohfor

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arbuom ( member #58131) posted at 4:45 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Ohfor, that was incredible! Thank you!

[This message edited by arbuom at 10:46 AM, September 11th (Monday)]

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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 4:49 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Amazing post ohfor, you are truly paying it forward in amazing fashion. Everyone here is very proud of how you've made it through this.

You said:

You built a life together but WW destroyed it with her betrayal, and you don't see yourself planning a future with her anymore. There's NO shame in that - in fact, for many, that is the more difficult choice. I have always thought it royally unfair that the WS can cheat and smash their spouse's world, then get busted, then plead and cry for another chance to 'save our marriage'...and suddenly, it's the BS who must ultimately make the gut-wrenching decision to end the marriage or not. On top of everything else.

This is very well said. It's one of those things I've learned from coaching for so long -- when speaking with a betrayed, whether they are leaning one way or have decided one way, I ALWAYS say "The wayward decided to unilaterally end the marriage. It's done. The decision isn't one to rebuild, it's to ask your self if you want to spend the 2-5 years reconciling a base level of trust then having a level of confidence to start anew at that point.

I don't even like the term "reconciling" at ALL. It presumes there is something to reconcile from. There isn't. There is technically less than zero. You can rebuild a negative number.

2-5 years to build a base back to a situation where the base is then 0%. Then the hope/confidence you still feel the same way.

It's f*cking brutal. Go read (or chat with via PM) NP5.

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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 5:03 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

I am an honourable man. I give only pure love and believe that I am entitled to settle for nothing less in return. I am a man of worth

And MangledHeart (the founder of this site and a reconciled BH) and Wifehad5 (a key moderator and contributor, also a reconciled BH) are not honorable men or men of worth?

There is IMHO no devaluation of self in choosing reconciliation. Just as there is no devaluation of self in choosing divorce. Both are good and acceptable options for getting out of infidelity.

Worthy of far more than having to live for the rest of my life in a marriage with a damaged goods wife, and having to accept only 2nd hand love.

Totally true, but if that’s the case then there has been no reconciliation. Just like the late and immensely missed Deeply Scared (MH wife) and the fabulous and thoughtful BrokenRoad (WH5 wife and a calming voice in the Wayward forum) aren’t damaged goods.

I get what you are saying ohfor and I agree no poster should be pressured to reconcile or divorce. It ALWAYS is an individual decision. But most BS fall into a group in-between and get stuck in some sort of limbo. I think it’s our responsibility to pressure them out of that limbo.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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MidnightRun ( member #59434) posted at 6:48 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Ohfor,

Amazing post.

The lion roars.

As I've said many times before, you are my hero.

A class act.

I wish you happiness in your amazing journey.

Thanks for reaching out to others.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 1:04 PM, September 11th (Monday)]

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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 7:30 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

While I agree with ohfor, that no one should be pressured into reconciling, I couldn't agree less about most of the rest of the content.

I am an honourable man. I give only pure love and believe that I am entitled to settle for nothing less in return. I am a man of worth. Worthy of far more than having to live for the rest of my life in a marriage with a damaged goods wife, and having to accept only 2nd hand love.

This to me smacks of the naive romantic that I was when I allowed my wife to walk out the door to get fucked when a part of me knew that's where she was going. It's not that ohfor's opinion is invalid, but mine differs greatly. I don't believe that this purity exists. There isn't a maiden faire waiting for me somewhere. I am not the male version of whatever that is either.

The way I look at it, we're all damaged people. I'm not looking for a fairy tale anymore. No one is meant for me. I am looking for functional, not happily ever after.

That said, I am divorcing my WW. She showed nowhere near the initiative that your WW has. A part of me wishes she had, but I can't tell where that would have ended up. I have given your WW a lot of insight into what it was like (at least for me) being a BH. Hopefully that helps her along in your journey. You know your WW better than any of us. It's possible that the initiative she's showing is simply panic at losing her meal-ticket/quality of living.

To me, there are two basic things to measure when determining whether or not to R... One, do you think your WW has the capacity to be a good partner. Two, can you find it in your heart to forgive her at some point. Now, this isn't an attempt to pull your heart-strings, or to guilt you into something. The reason it's important to truly forgive is because an inability to forgive on your part will be as damaging to your R prospects as continued wayward behavior would be on her part. Ohfor was right on the money about this part. This has nothing to do with your capacity to forgive. Not reconciling isn't a negative reflection on you. No one would judge you for having a tooth pulled instead of fixed. This is simply a choice on your part.

Now, in case anyone thinks I am trying to bend you toward R, I will proclaim clearly... I don't believe in R, at all. The main reason is that the romantic in me, the idealist, was killed dead by the A (A's), years of trickle truth, and resentment borne out of my own inaction regarding the affair. I am the classic rugsweeper, and it came back and killed my marriage and a lit of what I loved about myself.

If you believe that your WW can be a good partner, and you can forgive her, and you WANT TO, give it a shot. If not, move on with a clear conscience.

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 7:35 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

See, I think that's sad. I've worked with many people who have been able to find someone who they've been able to create the magic with again.

I say this with all the respect in the world but it feels to me you're damaged versus seeing reality with a new clarity. Again, I don't mean that in ANY negative way.

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beauchateaux ( member #57201) posted at 7:36 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

There is IMHO no devaluation of self in choosing reconciliation. Just as there is no devaluation of self in choosing divorce. Both are good and acceptable options for getting out of infidelity.

This x 100. I have been following this thread sporadically, but I have to be honest when I say that I've also avoided it at times because it's made me feel indirectly castigated for choosing R. I know that's no one's intention, but it's coming through in many of the posts, this idea that R-choosers are weaker or value themselves less or will live to regret it.

Me choosing to forgive my husband and try to move on together doesn't mean I'm allowing him to devalue me. No one can devalue me but myself. NO one. Not him, not my boss, not my parents, not my friends or enemies. Not ANYONE. And if I'm comfortable with my choices and why I made them, then there is NO loss of integrity or honor for which I should be ashamed. Period.

This is what WH didn't understand when he chose to cheat - that external validation is worth sh*t. This is the lesson he has had to learn the hard way. And even though he got 'lucky' with R - the idea that he's getting off scott-free is not reality, either. Reconciliation is NOT the same thing as rugsweeping. I have not made it easy on him. Consequences and R can also go hand-in-hand, you know. I'm sure sometimes HE has thought that maybe losing me would have been easier. Too bad - leave then, door's always open. :)

I chose R for complex reasons. Whether LJ chooses R or D, his reasons will be complex too, and individualized to HIM and his WW.

LJ - your choice is yours. Whatever you choose.

PS - just want to add that everyone has their hearts in the right place and you are all amazing for caring so much about folks you don't even know - even if I don't always agree with you. :)

[This message edited by beauchateaux at 1:40 PM, September 11th (Monday)]

I edit pretty much every post because I always hit submit and then think of 'one more thing' to say.

posts: 318   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2017   ·   location: Chicago
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 LuxuryJellO (original poster member #59868) posted at 8:41 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Hi everyone. I appreciate the spirited discussion going on in here. Again, though, I'm really not looking for advice on the 'should I R or D?' front. I know where my head is at. What my post *was* mentioning was the awkward timing in regard to WW's father's medical situation.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to use my pre-paid itinerary to fly in this weekend to wish him well. If I do, it may be the last chance I ever get to see the guy (not that he and I are particularly close... or close at all. He's always been somewhat cold to me, tbh).

In general, NOT flying in will by-far take the least amount of work, and so I'll probably just go with that. Maybe I'll send him a card.

posts: 121   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017   ·   location: CA
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MidnightRun ( member #59434) posted at 10:19 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

As I've said, sending a simple, heart-felt card will pobably have more impact than a visit.

It allows everyone to reach their own conclusuons in a touching way.

posts: 1562   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2017   ·   location: CT
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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 10:27 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2017

Lux,

One of the downsides of getting so invested in these situations is that oftentimes you'll get people chattingnout R versus D. It's really more of a case study at this point versus giving you direct advice.

Your head is in the right place and you're not making an 'standard errors'. More importantly, we're rooting for you man.

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MidnightRun ( member #59434) posted at 12:16 AM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2017

I glean from your posts that you're the kind of guy who will be truly comfortable with your decision.

The very best.

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TimelessLoss ( member #55295) posted at 12:56 AM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2017

Lux, this is related to your decision to use your air ticket. And it has to do with her family's knowledge of her A. Has she confessed to her family? That is information you should have. IMO it is a matter of respect and transparency. You weren't the recipient of that during her A and post DD TT.

That said, I don't believe it should be on you to ask about that. How is you absence being explained? Was it known that you were scheduled to come w/CSCE?

"You've got to learn to leave the table when love is no longer being served"

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 LuxuryJellO (original poster member #59868) posted at 1:41 AM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2017

How is you absence being explained? Was it known that you were scheduled to come w/CSCE?

Her parents know about the affair and understand that is the reason I'm not coming. Her sister (who is the one getting married) doesn't know. I think WW said that she's going to explain my absence to the bride as something work-related.

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harrybrown ( member #59225) posted at 3:27 AM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2017

It would be nice if your WW would always start telling the truth.

yes, she would have some results from her cheating.

But it would be good for her to start telling the truth.

good way to build character.

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