SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Personally don't think you jumped the gun, I just think you did the wrong thing. But that's my opinion and I'm not trying to change yours.

And to be honest I think that what you did is a lot worse than those who do it after they KNOW they have been cheated on and need it to move on.

I get someone saying, you betrayed me, I'm not sure I want to be in this anymore I am going to see what the world has to offer and see where I stand.

I even get, you had sex with someone else I can't move on without evening the score.

I'm not sure I can condone 'I think you maybe cheated so I'm just gonna go ahead and fuck a sex worker' that sounds like the 'I was unhappy so I had an affair' excuse so many of us use.

But, I'm a WH, who am I to comment on what's morally right or wrong.

You do you.

Did you not read my post??? Everyone said it was obvious I was being cheated-on, including some people on this very website. If it looks like a duck and quacks like duck, it's a fucking duck. That's the exact quote that many across multiple websites advised me. The only thing I didn't have was a confession from a known liar. I had condoms he'd purchased, ATM receipts of $100s withdrawn at strip club ATMs, other's testimonies of where they'd seen him, etc. What more did I need?? He refused to confess for fear I'd cheat on him. He didn't confess until after I point blank told him "look, it doesn't matter anymore, we've BOTH done each other dirty here. Anything you did isn't anything I haven't done either. So we might as well tell each other because at this point I don't care about the sex acts themselves,just the dishonesty." If he wasn't already convinced I'd acted out too, he would have continued going about things the **NO POLITICS** pre-confession way.

But deep down, I knew he strayed, before I even caught him flirting and making sexual jokes to girls (in plain text) 2 years ago. I compared my approach to an "innocent until proven guilty" court, but even with court, sometimes murderers are convicted despite of a lack of confession if the evidence is overwhelming.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:12 PM, November 14th (Tuesday)]

madhattermarilyn, please do not post personal contact information. Thank you.

Ok so how do I pm people?

I read your post.

My opinion hasn't changed. I get your reasons but in my opinion the better course would have been to walk away.

I guess by my thinking (not yours, I get that) you didn't have an RA you had an A and you're justifying it.

[This message edited by ChangeMe1 at 1:30 PM, November 14th, 2017 (Tuesday)]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You call it an A because I had every shred of fact and evidence except confession from a compulsive liar, I call it a RA. So what is your story? Are you a WS or BS? Seems like more WSs have a problem with how I've handled things than BSs.

I'm already getting reprimanded in PM about not choosing to stay loyal to a cheater.

madhattermarilyn, asking you to clarify what you hoped to get from our members and sending you the Madhatter guidelines is not a reprimand. Nor, was anything mentioned about staying loyal.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:40 PM, November 14th (Tuesday)]

What I hope to get from this...is people in the same situation who can relate. And that's what I got, thanks to people such as Devastated Dee, Randy1133, silverlining 55, and Nicenomore. However, a bunch of one-sidedly WSs also came on to shame me for what I did, to contradict everything that had been told to me before I saw reality of my husband's actions and I stepped out. I honestly feel like I'm being shared more by some as a MH than if I'd simply been the only WS in my marriage,like wtf. No, I do NOT believe a RA is worse than the original A at all. In fact, I think it is less so.

However, a bunch of one-sidedly WSs also came on to shame me for what I did, to contradict everything that had been told to me before I saw reality of my husband's actions and I stepped out

No one is trying to shame you for what you did. You posted with a stop sign meaning that every single person on this thread has cheated. Every one of us has made bad decisions, so no one is really in a position to go around shaming people. The issue isn't so much what you did, it's your attitude about it. Again, my husband cheated after me. I don't shame him for it. I definitely don't think what he did was worse. I don't bother with that nonsense, who hurt who worse. And he doesn't shame me either. We love each other. We want to be together. And there's no room for the kind of attitude you have in that. Like I said previously, I know he doesn't feel the same level of regret that I do, That's fine. But he does feel regret and remorse. If he walked around feeling pretty proud of himself and not at all d about hurting me, we wouldn't be together.

At the end of the day, you can't love someone and feel good about hurting them. Why bother staying married? Again, read some threads here. It's almost pointless trying to reconcile with a remorseless WS. And that's what you are. So, like someone else asked, what do you hope to gain with this post? A lot of high fives? I don't care what your husband did. YOU chose to cheat. You had other options but you chose that one.

This is an interesting topic of conversation to be sure. IMO, any kind of affair is wrong. You (BS) have been wronged and you're looking to "right" that transgression. And you're choosing to doing that with the same act that you're angry about in the first place.

As I've said before, I am certainly in no position to judge either way. In my case, and in my current mindset, I would simply walk away. The level of hypocrisy in that statement is not lost on me but I recognize how awful stepping outside marriage really is. I made a sacred vow to someone else and I broke it. My wife going out and fucking someone else isn't going to fix that or make things right or even. IMO, using someone else in the commission of the same crime that was perpetrated against you is not justifiable.

IMO, having an RA to level the playing field, getting a sense of self worth etc is simply the same line of BS thinking WS use to justify an affair.

Virginia, there's a huge difference between your marriage and mine. That difference is remorse from the initial WS. You are remorseful and looking to improve. Mine wasn't. He's a habitual liar who dangled me along with TT for multiple YEARS. Spent MY MONEY on stripper whores who would do favors in the VIP room (and yes, the message board for that club on stripclublist is riddled with posts and gossip about all the extras going on). How can I be remorseful about my two measly RAs with all he did? Maybe one day I'll learn to feel remorseful,and only after he devotes YEARS of proving himself to no longer be cheating or spending money on other girls, more money than he's ever spent on me in fact. (Although recently I did make him essentially pay me $70 for sex lol, as part of regaining validation for myself lol) remorse is a 2-way street. I only give what I get.

And, I never chose for a stop sign to be put on this thread. I would welcome someone removing it please. Or maybe the mods did it since they know there'd be too many BSs/wannabe MHs chiming in with praise and agreement? And that would technically appear to be promoting RAs, which apparently the mods and site do not like to do? Hmmmmm. Even before I made this thread, I had BSs PMing me to say that they're in my pre-RA plight and for a while now have been considering doing what I've done.

My wife going out and fucking someone else isn't going to fix that or make things right or even. IMO, using someone else in the commission of the same crime that was perpetrated against you is not justifiable.

What is justifiable after an affair? Staying?

Divorcing? Getting yours? I don't think there is a right answer here, because marriages aren't built that way.

Randy

What is justifiable after an affair? Staying?

Divorcing? Getting yours? I don't think there is a right answer here, because marriages aren't built that way.

I agree to a point. I'm merely pointing out that, IMO, mimicking the disgusting behavior of the WS isn't the way to deal with infidelity. Regardless of what the BS does, it's never going to make things right.

As an example, my A involved no intercourse. Aside from all the soulmate, I love you bullshit talk between myself and the AP, all we did was kiss and her giving me oral. Does that make me any less culpable because I didn't fuck this woman? Would my wife going out and getting oral from some other dude make things right? Or maybe her fucking a couple of guys balance it out?

I am certainly no pillar of virtue nor am I standing on some moral high ground because of some sort of religious conviction. Wayward behavior, in all its forms is disgusting no matter the "justification". I do get the desire of a BS to have a RA but IMO, it's not the right way to go.

^^^^Yep.

The issue isn't so much what you did, it's your attitude about it.

Yep

IMO we are just pointing out that it is about your response to your husband's affair that is unhealthy. But, hey there is always two sides to every coin. Some parents say that if another child hits you-hit them back. Some parents say that you should turn your back and walk away. They just aren't worth it. They just aren't worth it. I just don't see many saying they are worth it and you should punch them back and get your pound of flesh even if you hurt yourself in the process.

I'll write more later but just wanted to say that I think there are very few if any WS are immediately remorseful. I was a horrible hateful person to my husband. I told him I hated him and although I denied the affair, I barely hid what I was doing. In the end, he didn't catch me. I confessed about 6 months later. Had he caught me, I definitely would not have been remorseful at the time. I was so angry and bitter. Secondly, don't misunderstand me. I understand why you did what you did. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Just like I don't agree with what I did or my husband did but I understand why we made the decisions we did. I just don't think there's any healing or moving forward in your current state of mind. Either move forward with reconciliation or divorce but either way, I think you'll need to work through the anger and bitterness that comes across in your posts.

Virginia,

I am glad you understand and empathize. And trust me, the anger and bitterness I had before my RAs was 20x larger. That's probably an understatement. An analogy might be to compare the rage Marilyn Manson shows in his album Antichrist Superstar to what he shows in his follow up album, Mechanical Animals. Obviously still an obscene, profane rockstar but the evil and anger was less (e.g., no more cutting himself on stage), even though his sexual antics (e.g., on stage at his concerts where he danced like a stripper, humped the mic, jerked off, wore fake breasts, etc) may have actually increased. Same here. I am still a badass angry rebel but my anger is somewhat less, despite my acting out sexually more than before.

And Virginia, let me ask you some things.

At what point during or after your A did your husband have his A?

How did his A change your reaction or treatment towards him?

If he hadn't had an A, let's be honest here, how might the outcome or duration of R been different?

I will let you know that my husband didn't start showing much remorse until after my RA and my confession (same time as his) about 2wks later. Now he knows what I'm actually capable of, and that I have the ability to get other guys. yes, my RAs were with sex workers who I paid money to in the form of tips and lapdances leading to favors. But these are guys who are admittedly hotter than my husband. That in and of itself is humbling. He didn't show any real turnaround until that point.

Marilyn

I am new to the site, however, I have been lurking for a long while. I am in your husband's shoes. I was the cheater, and long story short, it was her condition for reconciliation, that she get to sleep with someone else. I had not expected my wife to want to do that. It shocked me, and of course immediately protested. Was told that her conditions were not negotiable. I protested again saying that she had already gotten me back,(she used the legal docs on our business to shutter it, and cause us to lose a significant amount of money, and put me back into the job I left to open the business). Anger was my best friend then, as I said that I would be giving her consequences. I was told three days later that she slept with a guy from her work called J. I was totally livid, and she really poked the bear. First, I was no longer interested in reconciliation, and she was told that a nuclear bomb was about to go off in her life. She laughed.

Monday afternoon, I am waiting behind her office, and am watching the workers leave. I call out the Ap's name, as I did not know what he looked like. I asked if J was among them, he steps up, and I say: I am K's husband, and proceed to beat him senseless. (I was at the time about 230, and she really affaired down, a slight prick with a pencil dick). So I drag him into the office, and drop him in front of the boss' desk. My wife's eyes were as big as saucers and she was not prepared for my next yell: THIS SHIT FUCKED MY WIFE. The entire office came to a standstill and looked over at my wife, she was turning every shade of red in the book. The boss fired both of them on the spot. My wife notices her little buddy bleeding, I say, that this is all your fault, couldn't leave well enough alone. Here are your divorce papers. Oh, PS, can I borrow your phone. I just pick up the line, and call my MIL: "Hi Mom? It's your exSIL, just wanted to fill you in on why you babysat on Saturday. Yeah, she went out and fucked a little ________. Yeah, just banged the shit out of her and dropped her off at her car. My wife was disowned by her parents on the spot. She leaves, with no husband, no AP, no job, no parents. Take from me, I take from you. It also left her with no way to pay the bills.

I got a tearful call a week later. Our rent was due and I asked her what that had to do with me. She could just give me our daughter, and she could go live under a bridge somewhere. (Vengeful wayward). Eventually, my mother impressed upon me the necessity of supporting her. My child lived with her, and I could not have them evicted. I began turning over most of my paycheck. The anger on both sides began lifting, and we started going out with one another, just to discuss finances. The finance talk turned into relationship talk. I had felt that she turned on me when I bought the business. She admitted she resented it. She also resented that I wrecked her life, and I said it was tit for tat. She took my business, and flushed it, not realizing that everything we had was tied up and was now gone. I went and talked to her parents, and smoothed the waters. I helped her find alternative employment. She tried to get some of our money back, but that was gone. We re-kindled our marriage from ashes. I would have never gone back without her RA. Her RA, and my affair nearly destroyed us, and it was a massive climb out of that tit for tat hellhole. We did it. We are now married over 40 years, together for 45.

Let me also mention that divorce is not a viable option for me. In-house long term separation maybe, but that's it. Last year I made a pittance but because the gross amount was still more than twice what my husband made, I would have been screwed over 5 ways from Sunday with my ass handed to me... essentially punished for being the scorned victim. I consulted with an attorney. He wouldn't even entertain the idea of a fault divorce. Said he doesn't do that. He tried to dupe me into thinking that paying $800+ for the initial attorney fee alone, plus paying spousal support, child support (he said my husband should have 50% custody), and plunking out cash I don't have to cover half my retirement pension would be a "good deal". Oh but I'd get to keep my house...the POS house in chronic need of repairs, which I wouldn't be able to afford in the slightest without a second income, let alone with one income minus spousal support, child support, and many other fees. I had no spare money but lots of debt already. That's the thanks I got for staying at a low pay stressful job that required me to obtain a full-tuition Masters degree in that field but refused us any and all raises for over 5yrs, I suppose. If I'd divorced, I would have ended up getting foreclosed upon and homeless...then losing custody of my kids. Since in my laws are fanatical about their grandkids but don't really give a shit about me, odds are they would have moved the kids and my husband into their home while leaving me to fend for myself like a disowned misfit crack addict, leaving me custody-less and paying even more child support.

I asked the lawyer what if I cheated back. He said it would have literally no effect on court proceedings because everything is no-fault. Said if that's what it takes to feel better about myself, then do it. But it would hold no effect financially.

In recent months, actually right before my first revenge fling, I cracked like Lester in American Beauty (played by Kevin Spacey) and quit my job. Didn't have anything else lined up at the time, didn't care. I was sick of being cheated on at both work and home. (My job "cheated" by hiring newbies with equal experience + education level $15,000/yr more than me, while continuing to deny all of us existent employees raises for 5+ years). The only difference between how I quit and how Lester quit in that movie: I quit with nearly 4 months notice, and applied to new jobs in those 4 months. I also knew my employer's policy that if you gave your June notice before April, you were entitled to keep your group healthcare benefits paid in full for an extra 2 months past your June resignation. Also, I didn't curse or make false sexual harassment threats in my resignation letter like Lester did. But i definitely did sound off about how morally bankrupt and illegal they were to violate union contract by refusing us our union-mandated raises, while paying new employees much better salaries. I think I even wrote out analogies to infidelity and slaps in the face for us loyal betrayed employees.

Now I have a job that pays a considerably smaller gross income but only 25% less than my previous job. No, I couldn't afford any pay cut at all. But the previous job was literally driving me insane, so the pay cut is somewhat worth it. That previous no-raise job contributed to the rifts between my husband and I that likely led to him straying, and it kept me so preoccupied with overtime paperwork each late night at home that my husband got away with sneaking out places without me. I blamed that previous job for destroying my marriage the same way Eboneezer Scrooge's father blamed him for his wife (Scrooge's mother) dying in childbirth. There was plenty of toxicity at that job aside from effects on my marriage or a possible divorce loss. So nowadays I still make more than my husband but not nearly as significantly much more as before. I also have spare time to take courses towards a better career, whereas my previous job felt like 2 full time jobs with all the work they gave us. I still talk to 3 former colleagues from that previous job and they told me it's gotten nothing but worse, with even more workload.

I think that could be another possible reason my husband is humble now, because he realizes that he won't gain much or anything now from me divorcing him. And I won't lose nearly as much. Still a divorce is way outside what I can afford, just in terms of affording basic bills on my own. I don't really want to divorce if I can avoid it, at least right now while I'm financially hurting and the kids are very young. But I refuse to be the pushover wife. Which is why I feel the RAs were necessary for me and to also avoid more explosive fights in our marriage (which is horrible for kids to stumble across).

[This message edited by madhattermarilyn at 9:10 AM, November 15th (Wednesday)]

Crazymixedupkid, you sound very sexist to have called her mom. And her mom sounds like a piece of shit mother to disown her. Did she know you'd cheated first? Then she's an even bigger piece of shit mom. Your wife's mistake was telling you a name. My husband still won't tell me precise names. I think he just makes up whatever names are being mentioned on stripclublist as former dancers who don't even work there anymore.

If my family disowned me for that double standard bullshit, I would never talk to them ever again and would probably be spitting on their graves someday.