SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Casey,

This is my first post. I'm sorry about how painful this must be for you, but in a short time after receiving much great advice you seem to be learning quickly that your options don't have to be defined by your traditional patterns of interaction and roles in social situations. You don't have to continue being a pushover or a "nice guy" who puts everyone else's wishes first. And it is critical for your own future well-being that you internalize and embrace this mentality as strongly as possible. It means being a decent, empathetic, kind person because that's the kind of person that you want to be, and also having strong healthy boundaries about what you do and don't deserve, or will and won't tolerate, and enforcing them confidently. Acting like this person is how you become this person.

Now I do want to offer a somewhat different take about how you should proceed practically. I think it is a good idea to try to take a strategic view of how you want things to unfold. You want to bring about the best outcome for you. And of course by extension for your daughter - if I leave that out below, I mean it to be implicit. And I'll also remind you that your daughter will likely be better off with a healthy mother who is not a ruined person.

So I do not think it is imperative to disrupt her life terribly, immediately, by revoking her health insurance or outing her in a way that might jeopardize her job. That depends on what you want. There are future outcomes where you will be better off if you had not done that now.

I've learned here that a good amount of the advice for someone in your situation is aimed at forcing the WS to change their orientation and priority back to the marriage. And for that end it is good advice. But if you think that you do not want to remain married to her because you know this is a dealbreaker, then in my opinion many of those steps will ultimately be counter-productive. Everything that follows assumes that you ultimately want to be free of infidelity by not being married to her, or at least not unless she changed majorly.

In this case I think what you really should aim for is to get as far along with the divorce process as quickly as possible and in the most advantageous way for you and your daughter without rocking the boat any more than necessary. Ideally you get out of the marriage as cleanly as possible before she has a chance to realize she messed up and resists.

This importantly includes working on seriously envisioning and coming to view as plausible a future where you are not married to her. There are many good aspect of this to focus on, to help balance the many very sad feelings this contemplation will undoubtedly cause. But you have to make it real in your head, this is a real thing that can happen and I will still have a good life.

That would be a relatively (this all sucks) better way to end up because it is less messy in a million ways and lets you take the high road for the rest of your life with respect to this. It sets up a better situation for amicable co-parenting. It makes you admirable for inflicting minimal gratuitous damage.

It is not conducive to your long-term goal to negatively impact her career or her healthcare, at least not before the divorce is final. Perhaps morally she deserves many things and it might be satisfying, but this all comes at a cost that might not be worth it in the long run.

And, although I would personally try to seriously de-emphasize this, it could also create a better foundation in the event that she becomes a true candidate for reconciliation. I admit that the longer the A continues the less likely R might become, and the other suggestions might be more likely to force her to become that candidate sooner, but on the other hand everything might be harder with more damage having been done. If you decisively pursue a course that leads to your permanent separation in a way that protects you and your daughter first and foremost but that allows her to retain what she thinks is her dignity and control, for as long as that illusion can be sustained, then when she falls under the weight of her own decisions, she will have a significantly different view of you than if you pushed her to fall early on. So will her family, and DD some day.

@WIlliamM, thank you. Yes, I was just able to find the information on Facebook as well. I am meeting with a therapist and an attorney tomorrow, so will wait until after those meetings to decide whether to report him to his commanding officer (leaning strongly toward yes) and potentially set in motion actions that can affect my wife's career (leaning slightly toward no, but still on the fence). I may first try to tell the other woman about the affair without mentioning my wife's name. Although, I agree with the poster who said they would not want my wife teaching their child. Her actions are beyond disturbing. When I asked her who initiated the affair, she said it was more her than him! She should not be a role model for children.

@AwokeNewMan, thank you for laying it all out in such a clear and thoughtful way. That is exactly why I am going to take my time before making quick decisions. There is a lot to consider, and at this point I don't know if I do want to be married to her anyway. At least not unless, as you said, she were to change dramatically.

But, tonight I did tell her that I want a divorce as soon as possible, and that I am working on getting her served with the papers quickly. Maybe that will start to light a fire under her butt. And I intend to follow through on that--she needs to know it is not an empty threat, and I really am prepared to go forward in life without her.

And to respond to some earlier posts, It makes me sick that I am now going to have to get tested for STDs. I do not feel worried about my daughter's DNA, but will probably do that test too just to put my mind at ease.

I respectfully disagree with AwokeNewMan, that view is simply a dressed up version of the pick me dance, with blame shifting and the nice guy divorce added on.

Any and all consequences fall at the feet of the WS, no exceptions, even if the BS could minimize them but chooses not to.

When you've been the nice guy your entire marriage, she will steamroll you if you continue to be...it's time to kick ass, take names, and give no quarter.

CaseyA, you are doing great.

You asked earlier about kicking your wife out or letting her stay the full 10 days.

I don't think you can legally kick her out, check with your lawyer.

I went shock and awe with my wife. Don't tell her every move you are doing.

You've got to realize, it's you vs her now.

She's not the same woman you married. She never will be again and with time, you'll never look at her that way again either.

I really only got on here to encourage you not to separate but to D.

Otherwise, keep up the great plan.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 5:24 AM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

It's late. I'm tired. Double post because I'm nice like that.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 1:42 AM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

Casey you are doing really well. Very glad to hear you have lined up a meeting with an Attorney , and that you have told your wife that you are moving toward a divorce.

Wanted to give you a few SI technology tips first. 1 - when you have questions that contains some personal information about you (his base) you can PM people. It's like a direct email (between two people) that you can see if you have any private message from the forum list (top box). Just say something in your forum message like...PM me if you need more information and can help me find his chain of command.

2 someone else touched on this. Make sure WW can't find this site. A part of you might want her to see how anonymous people see her cheating but... you will lose this special place for advice if she does find it.

3. If you highlight text in a message and copy it...then paste it in your own message (highlight) and click the quotes button it will appear as a quote in your message... it makes replies easier.

Personally if it were a choice between telling the OBS and reporting him to his command I'd rather you tell the OBS. True she might/should remove her child from your WW class and report her but it's something that she really should know. It's cruel that she is sending her child to your WW everyday to learn... not knowing that your WW is screwing up her family. Nobody is going to like this advice but I'd give her the option of not reporting your wife (to the school board) and you not reporting her husband as long as the two stay NC.

If he is in the military married with three kids, she could easily be a SAHM and need him to keep that job, regardless of if they divorce. This would be your leverage in her not reporting your WW...she should still remove her child from her classroom.

Along those lines, the more I think about it, the more I believe that the (10 month deployment) was a ruse to get you to NOT tell his command. That they believe that if you think they are not seeing each other you will not report this... there might be a military clause that states that if a spouse has been seperated for 10 months it isn't as bad on their career to be caught.

We both want to file the separation sometime this month. We haven't discussed the holidays yet. Do you mean with regards to who will have our daughter? And I really was just introduced to the 180 today, so I will begin implementing tonight. Seems like a challenge to be this ruthless person on one hand while remaining calm, confident, and collected as per the 180... but I will try.

If I were you I'd use these 10 days to really focus on the 180. You and your daughter are all that matters. You have told her that you are preparing to divorce - now keep the talk to finances and kids. Now, kid talk isn't "DD was so cute today dancing with her stuffed animal" Kid talk is - "the daycare worker is concerned because DD was acting out today, or wet herself... If you can take care of something yourself (giving Daycare winter clothes/diapers) you don't need to discuss it with WW.

During these 10 day's focus on your daughter and you. Take DD out to see the Christmas lights, pick out a tree together, make cookies, blow bubbles, draw... These are all things for you and DD not for you to do as a family. You might think this is passive aggressive, or just being mean to your WW or ... it's just more fun with WW and to do them as a family but... think about it. Is WW going to get what divorce is really like if you are still acting like a family? In other words is she going to understand what she is giving up if she continues to participate or if she is excluded? Up until now she got both you (family) and OM (lover), you've got to show her that's no longer an option. Don't engage in friendly chat, keep to text and keep it simple. "Are you picking DD up or and I?

While you are doing the 180 you will start to detach from your WW. I can already tell that your view of her has changed a lot since your first post.

When you get an urge to "talk" (convince) WW that her OM fantasy is irrational - stop yourself and post here.

Today is your first day of the 180. Let us know how you did.

Who have you exposed the affair to? Your family? Her family? Friends? At this point when you expose let them know the truth. We are in the process of getting a divorce because WW will not end her affair with a married man.

After you meet with the lawyer don't rush home and tell your WW everything. It's going to be tempting to tell her that she will only be getting $$ for CS and half the dept... but keeping silent would be better. Ask lawyer when you can legally change the locks on the door (right now you might not care to do that but it's good to know). Get your list of questions for the lawyer ready - don't use him/her as a therapist. Get your questions answered use that hour wisely.

Good luck

[This message edited by Freeme at 6:36 AM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

One thing to ask your lawyer about is the CS. Typically this is calculated on what each person made in the last year or what they are capable of making. So if your WW is shit canned because of the affair it may not hurt you.

If I were you I wouldn’t directly report to her school (unless you want to) but I wouldn’t hide her name from the other mans wife. She deserves to know. You have no idea if your wife knows this woman or not. The OBS may comsider her a friend. If OBS decides to report it to the school that is her choice and your WW can suffer the consequences. She should have thought of these things BEFORE she started cheating.

Casey. I am sorry for you and your daughter. Your lives are being upended b/c of the selfishness of your W and her affair.

I spent 6 months tolerating my H’s A (many months that I did not know about the A) but I believed we had reconciled st DDay1. But the A resumed a month later and I heard the ILYBNILWY (I love you but not in love with you) speech and he wanted a D. After 25 years of a good M.

At DDay2 I told him he no longer had to make a choice in what HE wanted to do b/c I was D him. Yes me the perpetual nice person and doormat finally stood up to him and let him know I was done with him and his A. Oh and time for him to leave too. Well leaving his home, me and kids was too much for him to handle and he refused!!! So I found him a place to stay!

He did not get it that he ran out of options and I was done with his A and treating me like a yo-yo.

We have reconciled and it’s been 4 years but we survived. Thanks to me making the choice to remain in the M.

But our dynamics have now changed and I took my power back. We communicate better and I don’t avoid saying things b/c I want to avoid an argument. I don’t let things go.

And one of my conditions to try to reconcile was a post-nup agreement. I am financially protected. So IF and WHEN your W changes her tune and wants to try to R - get it in writing NOW that upon D you are not obligated to pay her more than X amount per month or she has no claim on certain assets or $. Whatever you need to do to protect yourself.

As an example my $ in my name is mine. Not part of any marital assets if we D. We would split the house - we have separate credit cards - and divide everything else fairly.

I’m just giving you some options b/c I did not think I would survive his A and finding out it had resumed and was going to kick me to the curb for her (lying right to my face that it was just him - but of course I had not found SI so I did not have a support network) I did not think we were going to survive. And his was an EA - but the OW told me they never had sex but I’m not sure I believe that either. But it doesn’t matter.

He cheated and lied. And planned to dump me. For someone he knew less than 12 months.

But he has made amends every day for the past 4 years and deeply regrets all of it.

Make sure you sue for primary custody. Right for first refusal as to your daughter, also ask for exclusive use of the home. Ask that your daughter remain in the state and take her passport.

In regards to your property ask for exclusive use of the home. Wear a voice activated recorder so no claims of abuse are given by her. Even a nanny cam would help. Try to make all communications through text or email. Start the 180.

Nobody is going to like this advice but I'd give her the option of not reporting your wife (to the school board) and you not reporting her husband as long as the two stay NC.

Great idea. I am thinking of going to try to find the OBS (if she exists) today after work, and telling her about it. I may bring this idea up and see what she thinks.

While you are doing the 180 you will start to detach from your WW. I can already tell that your view of her has changed a lot since your first post.

Yes, I am starting to see all the flaws that I always overlooked before. I think some psychoanalysis of my WW may be useful... I will start with the good. She is (or I should say WAS) very fun, outgoing, and she really is a good mother. But, she has always been very spoiled. She has never known tragedy or loss. She has never lost someone close to her, and her parents have always handed everything to her on a silver platter. They continued to send her money for no reason until a few years into our marriage, when I finally told them to stop. They paid her full college tuition. And they will probably continue to bail her out financially as she tries to survive on her own paycheck now.

I am saying all this because, the more I think about it, the more I feel that she will not be a good candidate for R, at least not for a long time. I don't feel she has the depth and emotional capacity to own up to her wrongdoings, and to feel true remorse. She doesn't know what hardship and tragedy feels like. Maybe she will surprise me, but I am beginning to highly doubt it.

Who have you exposed the affair to? Your family? Her family? Friends? At this point when you expose let them know the truth. We are in the process of getting a divorce because WW will not end her affair with a married man.

I have told my family, and most of my close friends. She has told her family, and some of her close friends (who are also our mutual friends). I feel that I need to tell her family and some of her friends the truth, because whatever they have heard from her is most definitely nothing but bullshit. I have no ideas what lies she told them to justify her behavior. Do you think this is wise, or should I just worry about me and let that go? She is kidding herself if she things anything is going to be swept under the rug. I am telling people, and people talk. Many of the people in our lives talk to each other, so the truth will get out very soon.

^ Bad idea. It won't work. Please don't follow that advice. Trust me, I know. (the ultimatum thing)

Also, please don't mention divorce anymore. Giving her your everymove will not work. You need to SHOCK her. She needs to say to herself "wow, I din't know he had this in him. That's not the reaction I was expecting. Maybe I need to rethink my actions/ behavior if this is how seriously he will respond to the shit sandwich I just served him. Darn, I thought he'd eat."

What you're doi8ng is holding her hand and walking her through every move in hopes that she'll change before you actually have to make a real move'. That is not going to help you, I promise you. Even if you follow through. Say nothing more! Keep your cards close to your chest and get that poker face on. She should be guessing what your next move is.

[This message edited by smilethrupain at 1:05 PM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

eta wish you the best

[This message edited by destroyed1 at 9:20 PM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

Also, one last question that I wish someone brought up to me in the early days. Do you really want to be with someone who you had to say "either give up your boyfriend or I'll ruin your career." I know you wouldn't put it like that but that ultimatum of no contact is just plain stupid at this stage. It's one thing when you have a remorseful spouse that wants you back. But when you have someone who just wants to stay in the affair, what good does that do? Threatening someone their career to get an outcome you want? What kind of outcome is this?? That is an even bigger shit sandwich if you ask me.

Don't take that weak advice. You need a backbone. You need to say "This is who I am and what I am/ am not willing to live with. Bye girl." And you need to believe it, feel it. If she wakes up and gets her shit together, great.. maybe there's a chance. If she doesn't? Guess what? You still have your spine. Your character. Your strength as a man and what is and isn't acceptable behavior". You didn't have to resort to threatening or bartering. There is only way real way out of this. That's it.

Forget any of the rest of it.

I’m the type of guy that would always need everyone involved to have the whole truth, even if it’s from both sides of the people Involved in the marriage. Of course don’t expect her over supporting Family to suddenly take your side on things, but at least they’ll know the luster has faded on their formerly “perfect” daughter/Sister, even if they don’t admit that to you.

Whether or not she has the capacity or not to see the devastation she has brought to your family you should still take the steps to make them very real to her. It’s not your job to “feel” for her. You just need to take the steps for you.

Stop talking to her about anything except finances and your child’s wellbeing.

Have her served papers. Starting the process doesn’t means it ends. Who knows, her reaction may surprise you.

Contact the OBS. Not threats but make her realize and recognize that you both are in the precarious situation of your spouses losing their job.

Get yourself into IC. You’ve suffered a trauma no matter how strong of a person you are, it’s impactful.

Lean on your friends and family during this tough time.

Take care of your health.

Take care of your daughter.

Our thoughts are with you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:41 PM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

Great idea. I am thinking of going to try to find the OBS (if she exists) today after work, and telling her about it. I may bring this idea up and see what she thinks.

Just for clarity here, I hope you don't mean you will bring up with your WW that you are going to tell OBS. Don't tell WW - just do it. If you tell WW she most likely will call OM and they will concoct a story that is far from the truth.

Just for clarity here, I hope you don't mean you will bring up with your WW that you are going to tell OBS. Don't tell WW - just do it. If you tell WW she most likely will call OM and they will concoct a story that is far from the truth.

No, I am definitely not telling my wife anything. I am beginning total and complete NC with her about all matters, except what needs to be said about our daughter and any financial/business affairs. I know that she is nothing but lies right now, and her and the AP probably think they have everything planned out. I am going to keep her guessing and completely in the dark. It felt good going to sleep last night knowing that I am taking control, and I slept seven hours solid for the first time since I found out.

that ultimatum of no contact is just plain stupid at this stage.

Agree with smilethrupain. A BS should never, ever negotiate for no contact. That's as weak of a move as there is.

I am going knowing that I am taking control, and I slept seven hours solid for the first time since I found out.

Glad to hear that. So much better than the limbo. Yea, I read some concern about the advice given earlier and wanted to state that it wasn't an ultimatum - NC or I'll tell your boss. It was meant as a truce between the OBS and you. I sent you a PM earlier.

OBS might not believe you without proof. An easy way to get it would be to bait your wife. Send her a text like, "You don't belong in the classroom if this is how you impact your students' lives. I'm telling the school you're sleeping with OM's name."

Then shut your phone off for awhile. When you turn it back on, you will have all the proof you need. You'll probably have a lot of really nasty, cruel messages too, just remember your wife isn't herself right now. Plus, you can probably use them to your legal advantage.

Do you already have a voice-activated recorder to protect yourself? When you start drawing a hard line, you need to have protection in place. Record your phone calls with an app and record your in-person conversations so she can't claim you've been threatening her, etc. Good luck!