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You told him that AP has a bigger d@@k and that he’s better in bed. That’s soo hurtful. I can’t believe you would say something like that to anyone, let alone your husband.

May I ask what pushed you into this affair? It sounds like you had Resentment.

Just a quick response I feel some people are misunderstanding something. This does not make it any better, but it's just to clear the air.

I never said AP was bigger down there than H. Even in my fucked up state of mind, I would never go there. And for the record, AP wasn't bigger down there. I said he was a better lover. I've talked to H about this in length. I've talked to my IC about this. I needed to understand why I would go that far. I soon realised it wasn't about AP being better. It was about AP being newer and forbidden. It's just so sick and disgusting now, but's that what it was.

As for resentment, I might have resented the fact that my H was forcing me to stop the A when he confronted me. You see, I'm what you call a spoilt, entitled brat. Way before I met H I had this problem. It was either my way or the high way. So to be so caught off guard while in LA LA land and then to be told to stop it or else really put me in a corner. I'm sad to say that at that time I chose my A over my M. I still struggle not to strangle myself for my blatant stupidity and selfishness.

I'm working as hard as I can to change myself for the better. I realised, maybe too late, that I have a lot of issues that I need to sort out if I ever could be R material.

ASoCalledLife, thank you for that. They are very motivational. I do admit that I'm scared of not doing enough for H or myself. I'm scared of taking those bread crumbs and wasting them. But I don't plan to give up.

Zugzwang, my H has never abused me or taken advantage of me. You could say he is a model H. I give him sex because I want to, and I know that's what he needs in his healing. Honestly, I think I'm more persistant than he is on this.

He get's angry, very angry. But it's more of a cold, calculating anger. I've never seen him like this before and I'm trying to navigate as best as I can. He never beats me, but he can be brutally honest and it can take a toll on me. When he's like that, he has a tendency of asking questions, picking apart responses and calling out any bullshit (even if it's true). It's very hard for me to communicate with him when he's like that, so all I can do is apologise and wait for him to cool down.

Jorge, thank very much for your compassion towards myself and your spouse.

[This message edited by MrsSouthAfrica at 1:35 AM, March 26th (Monday)]

I have a lot of issues that I need to sort out if I ever could be R material.

You have a lot to work out before you are marriage material. You are always R material for yourself. Reconcile yourself. Let your husband go. Tell him what you want and let him heal his way. If you lose him, then that is the way it is. You still need to fix yourself though.

but he can be brutally honest and it can take a toll on me. When he's like that, he has a tendency of asking questions, picking apart responses and calling out any bullshit (even if it's true). It's very hard for me to communicate with him when he's like that, so all I can do is apologise and wait for him to cool down.

So, do you just sit there and shut down? Like a child being berated? Is that how the dynamics were in your house when you were young? What exactly do you do. From experience, I did the same. My wife is a very honest person. She is brutal with adults but a different person when it comes to kids. It drove her nuts and put a wedge between us that I would just shut down at any any confrontation. I finally realized through MC and her that I was going to lose the marriage and her if I didn't learn to engage back (without defensiveness) and talk things through like an adult would. Your spouse is not your parent, so stop putting them in that role. I found that drives a healthy communicator mad when an entitled person sits and feels sorry for themselves or seethes with resentment when forced to talk about real stuff. No one wants to be married with a selfish person that stands with their arms cross and pouts. Possibly even being passive aggressive. Time to grow up. So take a new path and learn how when it comes to communication.

Just sounds to me that your husband wants a partner and not a child wife. I could be projecting here, but your behaviors remind me of things that drove my wife nuts. I too was the spoiled entitled brat in our family. The golden boy that did whatever Mommy wanted because she too is a very spoiled entitled manipulative only child brat whose family centered around her as a child and as a mother. I vowed to stop that cycle.

Mrs. SouthAfrica,

Quoting ZugZwang's response here:

You do know what else to do. You need to start loving yourself so you are a safe person to be with. So you don't need others to validate you and make you happy. You need to learn how to make yourself happy in a healthy way. You need to learn how to forgive yourself by doing the hard stuff to earn it. It is okay to hate the person you were. You aren't that person anymore. Learn from her and move on to becoming someone you can be proud of. Someone your DD can be proud of. This isn't the end of the road. You hit your rock bottom. Now start going up. This is the beginning. A new beginning. Be honest. Be vulnerable. Be careful with the lives of others. You can do this. People do this all the time. Look at many R waywards. Look at many BS. You need to become enough for yourself. Period.

As a BS who is headed for divorce but most certainly loved her STBXH, these words send me into gagging sobs of all that was lost and perhaps could have been. If my partner had come to me after DDay and told me this exact thing about himself - that he had hit rock bottom, that he was seeing himself for the first time, that he would see an IC and climb steadily towards the better man he was almost sure he could become - well, that may have been the tiniest sliver of hope for me. And that's saying a lot - otherwise, I've always considered infidelity a deal breaker.

Don't hate yourself - hate your crime. Don't wallow in despair - be strong and face your shortcomings. Don't let your BS be the litmus test for your successful rebuilding - let it be your ability to permanently repair the holes in your bucket and BE ENOUGH FOR YOU.

I really and truly wish you all the best.

Would you consider going through with the divorce on the condition that you date and try to win him back? This might help with his mindset in that after being divorced, you have been “punished” just as he was punished by your affair?

This did work for a friend of mine. The remarried less than 2 years after he divorce.

Now I don’t like this idea, but I’m going to throw it out there. How about if you suggest that he has an EA then a PA with someone? Personally I see this as a horrible idea, but it may give him a sense of justice in his mind, and make you go through the horror of what you put him through

Now I don’t like this idea, but I’m going to throw it out there. How about if you suggest that he has an EA then a PA with someone? Personally I see this as a horrible idea

2018MLMM, I have a question. Do you usually suggest ideas that you don’t like and think are horrible?

Offering a "free pass" is a horrible idea. You are a cheater just reinforcing that cheating is a good way to solve problems. Cheating is just bad. No matter what type. Even "free passes". It is like saying, "yeah, it okay to steal. I will not tell anyone and you don't have to worry about the consequences." No no no no. You choose not to do something because it is wrong. Period. Not because you fear the consequences.

On the free pass idea. My H has been steadfast that no matter how betrayed he feels from my actions, he will never stoop to my level. He never wants to live with the guilt or shame. He says it's on my shoulder to bear. He has told me that RA or any of the sort will never be tolerated. That if he even sniffs another A from me, he's out the door, taking DD and not looking back.

Zugzwang, I apologise if I wasn't clear. In the beginning of sorting out this messed up situation - which was after DDay and D was filed - I acted exactly as you described. I was very childish. But after reading and reading and reading these recent few months have made me aware of where and how wrong I was. They made me realise what a terrible person I've been to my H and I how needed to change.

We engage every day. I make time for conversation. My H has vented to me many times, some with the request for me not to say anything. I did not engage in the beginning of the fallout, but I engage now, especially when he has a bad day.

I can confirm that my H is seriously considering R. We talked about it last night. I was very elated to have a clear distinction last night. Make no mistake, I still feel like a POS for what I did to my family, but I'm doing all that I can now. Maybe not at the start because I was still an arrogant moron who thought the world revolved around me.

I love my H very, very much. In the A, I thought I didn't. That is something that will haunt the both of us. I love him more than ever now. Whether we D or R, I won't stop loving him. He is very brave and very selfless to still be with me after I blew everything apart.

This A has destroyed the old me. I'm starting from nothing and trying to be a better, newer me.

This A has destroyed my old H as well. He is less trusting, more observant, but less decisive and unsure of what he wants from us. He's more angry, vindicated and so, so humiliated. The injustice is just palpable. I did that

I robbed him of so much. I'm going to give him more than he ever had now. I will not promise him the world, but I will aim for it.

I'm feeling very down today. I don't know if I can call it a trigger? It's just, I was watching a comedy show alone and an A came up. It was supposed to be funny, but to me it was like relieving all the horror I inflicted on my M. I broke down, cried, tried to wash the sin away in the shower. Haven't told H. He's home and worried. Should I tell him? We have been talking a lot and have agreed to be more open with each other. I don't want to make it out to be about whose triggers are worse. I don't want to invalidate his pain. Maybe I should just process it on my own?

[This message edited by MrsSouthAfrica at 3:44 PM, March 30th (Friday)]

Should I tell him?

That depends on where you are in your recovery. Is he still emotional about this stuff regularly?

I think if there is still a lot of anger, it might be a bad idea to tell him. Or maybe just give him a sanitized version. At a certain point, it would be good for him to hear that what you did is affecting you, but before that, he's likely just going to be angry, because you brought this on both of you.

Apart from Emasculation and Humiliation

He is also scared of you becoming "that woman" Again (You can call it PTSD)

For him

once you were a good wife and good mother

and then you became a cold heartless cheating bi$<h

And He was blindsided by all of this

it was very very shocking for him to see you like an enemy

you were his partner his lover

supporting him and other good things.

But then Suddenly you were very nasty to him

for MEN sexual power does matter

YES MEN are very Sensitive about their Performance in Bed.

Ofcourse just like any other man he was also

sensitive about his sex performance in the past

but then he met you and satified you physcicaly

and emotionally

AND Then

BOOOM!!!!

you said that he is not a great lover

he is not good in bed and Blah! Blah!

SO That was really humiliating and Also shocking for him

So FOR him Its Very Hard to Decide

His Past with you is tainted

According to your and Your H posts

i can say that he is in 60% in R and 40% in D

If you want to help him

you have to find a really good explaintion for what you did and will not happen again

than just calling it a FOG

I just want to say thank you to everyone who shared their wisdom with me. Thank you so much for trying to keep me on the right track. I was compelled to write this because I want you all to know that your efforts weren't for nothing, and that this idiot has been reading, listening and pulling up her socks sorting out her immaturity and selfishness; that I love the person that I'm becoming and have no intention of going back to that disgusting state of mind ever again.

Yesterday, I was at work when H send me a message. "Need to talk tonight. It's important."

That was it. I asked what was the matter and got no response. I thought this is it. You're getting exactly what you deserve. You're going to lose the man that you promised to love and cherish and it's no ones fault but yours. Throughout last year and this one, H had been adamant that he was going to leave me. He was adamant that he will never forgive what I did to him. I agreed that he deserved better. I agreed that I'm nothing more than he's backup plan, and he would be better off without me.

I fought hard to win him back, and I told myself that even if this is his final straw, I won't stop in changing myself for him. I won't stop in changing myself for me. I was now living a life of honesty and integrity. I hated who I was and am firm on not being that person anymore.

I was dreading the talk. I couldn't focus all day. The talk was the only thing on my mind. Was he finally going to unload on me? Was he finally going to call me a whore and horrible things that I deserve and then tell me to get out and D me? It was all I could think about. I was panicking.

H was already home from work by the time I came by. He was busy cleaning the lounge when I walked in. Told me to wait in the bedroom until he was done. By now I was close to sobbing because he was very cold when he spoke to me. Whenever he's like that, I expect the worst.

He came into the room. I was a bundle of nerves. I asked how his work was and we engaged in small talk. Then he got serious again.

"Do you know why I want to talk?"

"You're having a bad day need to get it off you chest?"

"No."

We were silent for close to a minute. That atmosphere was so tense and I was so afraid that if I said anything wrong, I'd be crucified.

I finally asked, "What do you want to talk about?"

"Us. I can't do this anymore."

Cue me sobbing, begging and pleading for him take some time before making the decision to end it.

"Why does it matter to you?"

I told him it's because I love him.

"Do you know what love is?"

I told him that to me love is showing him through my actions that he and DD are my priority, regardless of the enormous struggle that I face in proving it.

"I know DD mattered, but I also know that I was the furthest thing from your mind in your A."

I told him it was my broken and selfishness that resulted in the A and that yes, he wasn't a factor in my horrible choices. I also told him that I look back in pure horror and shame when I think about what I did to him.

"Explain to me your love for AP."

He repeatedly requested this, and my explanation hasn't changed. I was in love with a fleeting, destructive fantasy. I deluded myself into thinking the A and AP were something special, but they were just something typical - something done over and over again by different people. I thanked him in being brave and doing what he did to end it. I apologised for being such a fool for not seeing the destruction I was causing. It is my biggest regret that I believed my own bullshit.

"What do you think of me?"

This is the part where I broke down my walls and poured my heart out to him. Praising him, saying how brave he was for putting up with me, saying what a strong person he was to go through all this and still show me mercy, how I cherish every waking moment with him because no other man can compare, how I look towards him for guidance and authenticity, how I love his compassion and understanding, how he is an example of how a committed person should be.

"Thank you. Now, I have a few things to say myself."

He told me he has been seeing my progress and is very proud of me. He told me that as of right now, he has no feelings whatsoever for me. He told me it may have to do with him not engaging with me enough. I told him that it was his way of protecting himself from anymore hurt. He agreed.

He shared his fears of me relapsing. Although I haven't slacked off even when things are good, he has read here how many BSs get slapped in the face when the WS begins to think that everything is okay and return to their earlier patterns. I was very adamant that I hated the person I was and have no intention of going back. I told him in the event that I do slack off, he is more than welcome to unload on me and do what is necessary for his wellbeing.

He talked about the D and that by the end of November, he has decided to finalise it. I started sobbing like a little child again. Then he stopped me and told me that even if we D, he wouldn't feel right if he didn't fight as hard as I am for at least a relationship.

I was very stunned. I didn't know what he was implying.

He told me that seeing me give my all no matter what he threw at me gave him a sense of clarity that I'm serious about trying to make amends.

He asked if I would be able to put up with his "plain of lethal flatness." I told him I would because my intention wasn't to keep the love he had for me before I betrayed him. My intention is to earn his love again from the ground up. I want him to want me on his own. I want him to know how much I will forever cherish him and his grace.

My H has given me the gift of R. Thank you all again.

If you have any suggestions of what more I can do for him, I would really appreciate it. I've read many books, watched videos and listened to podcasts which were recommended to me by all of you, but I feel like it's still not enough and I need to do more researching.

[This message edited by MrsSouthAfrica at 9:46 AM, April 25th (Wednesday)]

Matters of the heart can be mysterious, illogical, sometimes awful, sometimes wonderful, sometimes both simultaneously. We see on SI many instances of seemingly "minor" betrayal resulting in D, and occasional instances of R after really awful examples of the most spoiled and entitled kind of betrayal.

In the end, I think it comes down to what the heart of the BS sees in the heart of the WS. The ancient alchemists were focused on finding ways to transform lead into gold. In many ways, this is what the heart can do if it has a true vision of love underneath layers of bad behavior. I wish you luck.

Good for you! Don't make him regret it. Being burned in the same spot twice can hurt much much more to a person.

Take this small sliver of hope and fight for it. Your husband sounds like a great man. Be a woman worthy of him.

And please understand NORMAL is gone. Even if you get back to a place where you recieve his love and affection again he will still have days he thinks about your affair. Probably untill his dying days. Learn to recognize that. To recognize when they affair is clouding his mind even years from now. Understand that trust will probably never be fully given again.

Other then that there isn't much more for me to say. Keep soldering on.

I’m so so happy for you. I cried and cried reading your post. It’s a gift and it’s good that you see that.

If you have any suggestions of what more I can do for him

When I read this I had so many thoughts in my head. The first one was that it’s not about doing for him, it’s about working on you and through that you end up doing for him. When he said,

He told me he has been seeing my progress and is very proud of me.

was he talking about what you did for him or how you worked on you? It sounds like one of his biggest fears is you not changing in a serious way and him opening himself up to more pain and being hurt again. So work on you and show him the new woman you are trying to be. The old one is still there though. So don’t ignore her and pretend you aren’t her. You are. But if you open yourself to that and say “here’s how I’d behave or act before” or “when I was in this situation I’d say this” you can then fight those thoughts and be different. Be aware of yourself.

The other thing you can do for him is give your all to your BH, your DD and your M. Show your gratitude. Initiate sex if he’s receptive to it. Respect his boundaries. Words of Affirmation. Show him you are thinking of him throughout the day in little ways (don’t know if it’s your type, but little notes, buy his favorite beer or snack, plan a date night, things like that).

Oh, one other thing. This whole thing will be hard. But not nearly as hard as what your BH is going through. It’s okay to be sad and trigger, but do not hijack his pain and focus only on yourself. If he has a trigger day and wants to talk about it, and you also had a trigger day, then that’s not the time to share your sadness. It’s the time to listen and support him. You put yourself on hold. Find a time later to talk about your feelings, but give him his time and be his shoulder to lean on. You were his partner in life before and you need to show him you can be that person again.

Butforthegrace - thanks for that insight. I'm still trying to wrap my head around by BH's heart, but understand that I might never know how he truly feels uñles he tells me. It's something I need to accept.

Adotta - Thanks. He is a wonderful H and amazing father. I'm going to continue that good fight to win his heart. I'm aware that things will never be the same, but I'm hopeful we can come to accept that together. I'm still trying.

MrsWalloped - Thank you for your kind response. I can see where you're coming from and I agree. My problem is that I have this temptation to do whatever I can and put him as the focus of what I'm doing and I'm second place. It's something I'm still struggling with. I want to focus on myself and help him as well. Sometimes it's hard for me to discern where I should start and what should be the motivator. I'm changing slowly on this, but it's still a work in progress.

He is proud of me for how I worked and keep working on me for me. He is glad I'm more focused on becoming a healthy person instead of keeping my horrible, old behaviours intact. And thank you for your comment on the me now and me before. I'm very tempted to run away from what I did and who I was, but I now understand that's a part of me that I need to accept. I will continue to be aware of myself.

I like your idea of little notes. I will incorporate it as soon as possible. I think it's a little too early for date nights, but I'll keep it in mind.

I kind of got emotional when he said we will R and asked him if I could hug him, panicked and thought YOu IDIOT! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING???? YOU RUINED IT. Aside from the sex, he has never allowed me to touch him intimately ever since the A. I guess I was starved for it, and stupid me decided to steal his moment.

But I was surprised when he opened his arms. I hugged him and he held me close and it was as if the floodgates opened and I cried so hard. I didn't know how much I was holding in until he held me. I couldn't stop thanking him and I couldn't stop saying I'm sorry. I need to work harder on being his shoulder to lean on, because I was a mess and crumbled at this moment.

We held each other until midnight. He told me that he guessed we both needed it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I still have a lot of work to do, but I'm determined more than ever in giving him the partner he deserves. And I'm focused in making sure I'm aware of me.

[This message edited by MrsSouthAfrica at 11:11 AM, April 25th (Wednesday)]

Its so warming to here of your update. Sending you and your husband positive feelings.

p.s. I'm a Kiwi. Go The ALL BLACKS.

Hi Mrs SA

We share the same motherland .. just some useless bit of info!

I am curious and have a few thoughts on this. I know you are hurting so these are just some food for thought. I see things slightly differently that others here.

Your H found out about the affair... bad enough.. but then also discovers that the AP was a stallion in bed. How do you truly expect him to feel about intimacy? Sure he must know that you did things with AP... Imagining your thoughts while you where being ravished... did she think about me? Did she even feel guilty while she was having her orgasms? What were her thoughts when she was with him? What about our family? Was the sex that good that she was willing to overlook us?

Do you consider that in his own mind that he will never live up your AP? (He knows that he will always be second best in this department.. it hurts but this is the price one pays for opening up pandoras box)

Do you consider his afterthoughts particularly in light of the above?

How do you propose that he wins his manhood and manly/husbandly pride back?

How do you think he is going to feel 2 years down the line... perhaps running into the AP?

No matter how you think he might be feeling, no WS can ever fully grasp the pride swallowing siege a BS has to endure to go on. It is life altering bull-crap that he must live through for the rest of his life. Why does he have to "learn" to be strong when triggered? Why should he have to suck it up each time the media promotes focus on sexual prowess knowing fully well that he doesn't compare to AP?

He is forever tainted... you have broken his spirit and he must secretly think that you are only back with him cos you are saving your own hiney.. Can this be true in the very core of your heart? Do you need to convince yourself that this really isnt just self preservation dressed as desperation to keep what you could loose?

I say all this above as a warning ... in that ...your posts have somewhat subtly painted the picture of the unfortunate WS who mistakenly strayed... Make no mistake you made choices deliberately...

Ok now on the positive side...

I can see that you are remorseful... Rarely would I ever suggest R with a WS but perhaps I read a bit of concern for your H in your words. Until you yourself consider him to be the adonis of your life, or you truly believe in YOUR heart that H is the best/better lover... you will never truly win him back 100%.. and never convince him that he is your better/best lover.

How will you do this?

Your Husband placed a lot of emphasis on the sex and intimacy parts.. and rightly so!

I guess what I try to say is... you cannot undo what you did... but you can find new inventive ways to help your husband express his desire for you... sexually.

Its up to you to suck it up and let yourself go completely and utterly with him. Hold "nothing" back. Be Unselfish, honest... open your wings and fly!

Now I don't mean what he only wants.. (cos that would seem like your only doing it for him ie to save your own hiney again... but he will need to see it that you want him to not only sex you physically but arouse you in the deep dark corners of your mind that you yourself never knew existed. Lets face it... if you opened up that way to him he certainly will feel like your adonis again.

I truly feel for your husband here but good luck!

[This message edited by VinST at 10:24 AM, April 29th (Sunday)]

I'm having a really hard time understanding why in God's name you actually told your BH that your AP was a better lover. I'm no stud to be sure, but that would have destroyed any thought of ever being intimate with my wife again. Men are extremely touchy about this topic.

whiterabbit46 - I said it out of resentment for him forcing me to stop my A. We had a huge argument where he told me to stop the A or else. My head was still too far up my butt that I inulted him. I had no idea the words I said would haunt us that much. But these recent months proved otherwise.

My H and I have talked about this as well as the sex with AP in length, for hours and days. AP was not a better lover because my H was bad. He was a better lover because the physical part started when my H and I were barely having sex, and it wasn't exciting sex. I take responsibility in that and so does my H.

I did things with AP that I didn't do with him. But now I've given him everything when it comes to sex, even more so than AP ever got. I strived to give him the best sex he has ever recieved. I studied ways to make it happen. I read up a lot about sex and how men and women differ in that regard. Because of this, nothing was off limits to him. And we did everything we could possibly think of. And yes, the sex we had is a thousand times better than the sex I had in my A. Some things were off limits to AP. I even brought sexy clothes just for my H. AP never got that.

I pursued my H even if he rejected me. I don't know how many times I stayed up buck naked hoping that he wouldn't chase me away this time. Hoping that I could help him heal his self-esteem, only to be chased away with a harsh rejection. My H was viscous in his rejection. My own self-esteem took massive blows(I know, I know). I took it all and never stopped, because stopping would mean I gave up on him. I know I fucked up with what I said and did. I know with every fibre of my being that I hurt him deeply. I was extremely immature. Yes, I should have done something about this before I strayed, but I can't keep holding on to that otherwise it will keep me stuck in shame. And that won't help me fix myself.

MSA - For what it's worth from what you've shared here, to me it does sounds like you really are getting a lot of things right at least from an effort standpoint. I'll go ahead and assume that your effort has been in the right amount and your heart has been in the right place (with your BS pain first but then also with your own). Have you considered changing up the methodology?

For example, Hikingout recently seemed to switch her approach a bit and although I can't speak for her I think it had some positive results.

I don't know enough to comment on how you might adjust that approach but I thought I would float the idea out to you.