SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Emptyinok,

It's been researched a lot. Men are attracted to youth and beauty, women are attracted to strength and stability.

There is so much research to the contrary that the stereotype really just can't stand on its own anymore:

Researchers asked young women (ages 15 to 29) to choose potential dates from a series of photographs and descriptions, while the women's mothers (ages 37 to 61) were asked to select possible boyfriends for their daughters using the same information. Results showed that a man's looks influenced both groups of women more strongly than his personality profile. This held true even if a man's profile was filled with highly desirable personal qualities, such as being respectful, honest and trustworthy.

Both daughters and mothers rated the attractive and moderately attractive men as more desirable dating partners than unattractive men, said the findings, published online in March in the journal Evolutionary Psychological Science.

Even the mothers of the girls are looking first at looks. Many other similar studies.

Women choose men they find attractive and keep the ones they think are strong and stable. Attractive women are most often with attractive men. It is not coincidental.

That's why men send women d** pics with OLD. I have been out with so many women who had a ton of stories of d** pics. I think it's because if one of us received a v** pic, it would turn us on. So those of us who have no clue how women function think doing the same will work for them.

Maybe you haven't read the many, many SI posts that state how the WH found many disturbing naked pics of his WW in the messages she sent. It seems to happen a lot. Too much to just say, it is a guy thing.

Women like good looking men. Men like good looking women. Men send dick pics, women send breast and, yes if you believe the BH's here, genital pics as well. Really, there is not a whole lot different in these regards. Hard as it may seem, there is a lot of women cheating going on too, and that too was the old stereotype that it was a guy thing, women were too modest and moral for such things.

[This message edited by DIFM at 8:30 PM, March 11th (Sunday)]

just a note about one difference I think between men and women on that whole picture sending thing. Just because men SEND a gal a picture of his penis doesn't really mean that a woman really wants or values or sees such the same as a man would feel about a gal doing that for HIM.

I have heard and do believe that there are substantial differences in what aspects are more appealing to one gender than the other. Women like butts and abs and other aspects. But you NEVER hardly hear or see evidence (as far as I can tell at least) about how "lovely" his scrotum sack or penis is/was. Performance with such, ok, yeah. But that's not a visual thing so much as a results-oriented/physical FEELING thing, IMO.

As a guy, I'd be horrified at seeing a manly six-pack on a gal. I think women bodybuilders are gross to look at and so does my wife, to be honest. Maybe that's not at all the point here, but I don't think that all of those statistics are necessarily fair or objective. Using pictures and written profiles to make choices like that just isn't at all the same as going to a club or church or single's group and actually making such a choice with a live-and-in-person selection of actual, real warm bodies all around you to interact with and hear and see and smell, etc...

The real criteria shows in real people's actual choices. The photographs and albums and yearbooks and such. But I do agree that similar league/looking people do in fact tend to pair up with similar league partners for the long haul (marriage) at least. I don't think this necessarily holds true for adulteries and ONS's per se, but for marriage partner choices, I think it does.

I've received plenty of x rated pictures from women, but never unsolicited. That's what I'm referring to: when they come out of nowhere.

Certainly many stereotypes are wrong (for example, with penis sizes). And even in this case, there's only degrees of it that an show up in a very aggregate way. Here's an example: playgirl magazine. It was a complete failure. Women weren't buying it. Who was? Gay men. Looks matter to both sexes, but men's sexual attraction is very much tied to what we see.

I think it bears mentioning that body type is kind of a different part of it. Personally I don't need a perfect body on a woman. Her face is much more important. To sit and say that I only care about looks would be shallow and untrue also. But you can put degrees on it and yes it matters more to men.

Reading this thread makes me so happy I'm not conventionally attractive. It hurt for a long time, knowing I couldn't compare with other women that way - but it also basically ensured that whoever approached me had to genuinely like me for who I was. I guess what Drax said is true.

In a weird way, I am comfortable with the mate selection part. But that same part of a man that makes physical attraction so powerful when marrying means it's a part of him that can't be turned off. And I know in a way that most BH, while loyal themselves, know this to be true when they post things about no man wanting to just be friends with a woman. I will commonly read things that sound like, "I know how men think." And THEN I trigger badly, upset at the idea that any man who befriends us, talks to us, helps us, gets to know us has questionable motives. Are we women foolish to NOT see it that way? Do you think we are foolish to allow friendships with men if we are not romantically interested?

For my whole life, I have had male friends. But now I can't see them as friends anymore. It adds to that sense of "I'm not safe." I just don't trust anyone anymore. I trust myself and some of my less dysfunctional, less jealous girlfriends, but I guess that's it. I feel myself distancing from everyone lately.

Especially if my guy friend has a wife that I know and like. Now I think, "Is this why he's friends with me? Does he somehow believe I think of him 'that way'? Ewww. No." It's upsetting. I don't want him to be a guy that thinks about other women besides wife. I don't want to be a piece of meat. But I am so suspicious of men and their motives. I work with a lot of men!

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:47 PM, March 11th (Sunday)]

I trigger badly, upset at the idea that any man who befriends us, talks to us, helps us, gets to know us has questionable motives. Are we women foolish to NOT see it that way? Do you think we are foolish to allow friendships with men if we are not romantically interested?

No, we're not foolish. We just think differently. For us, the idea of having friends who we're not romantically interested in of both genders makes sense, because we value friendship. And in spite of the stereotypes, I know many men feel the same way. I've had friends who had no designs on me (I had crushes on them, actually, but I accepted that they were not reciprocated and now genuinely enjoy our friendships), and I've read about men here who have female friends who are genuinely just friends.

You know what's weird? We hear about the complaints of being "friend-zoned" that seem centered on blaming women for leading men on and not knowing better about "how men think"... What if it were turned around? What if more people came out feeling upset about being "sex-zoned", thinking they found a real friendship only to learn that they were only valued for one thing? And again, it's not something that would only apply to men. We've heard enough stories on this site about OWs who took the initiative to start A's from former friendships, to know that both genders do it.

I can honestly say that women can befriend men, know men, spend time with men--while single or married--and have ZERO attraction. It happens all the time. We are actually attracted romantically to very few people at one time.

But now I have seen things through a man's eyes and realize that when we are nice, they believe we are interested! Because that's how they behave when they are interested! Omg! So many times guys I was not interested in made a move, and I would think, "Whhyyyyy????"

I never understood until now.

I can't believe my kindness was interpreted as interest, because their kindness is interest! Ugghhh.

I am still me and control me. Nothing's changed, I know. But I attribute at least some of the cheating that goes on in the world to these misinterpretations of the sexes.

I do believe there are a fair amount of OW who do not understand that men can use them for sex. They really don't get it because women aren't totally able to do this. They figure there must be emotion.

BW are alternately tortured by the same concept: that men can just be that consumed with sex, unconvinced there isn't emotion. Women are far less likely to operate this way, so it's confusing.

We won't believe a man's motives are only sexual because ours are often not only sexual.

It also explains why BH insist their WWs wanted the sex: because that's a man's view of partnering. It's always about attraction and sex.

I feel so one dimensional.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 11:06 PM, March 11th (Sunday)]

I feel so one dimensional.

You sound one dimensional.

You sound one dimensional.

Yikes.

Nasty, nasty.

Not a fan of affirmation? Would you rather receive a few “there, theres”? Your posts do read one dimensional. Actually they sound like a pity party, woe is me, victim mentality. Which would be fine, if you’d own it now, but instead your generalizing men to validate your shitty view of men...which is anything but owning it now.

Your giving sexuality in men too much credit. And sexuality in women not enough credit

About a year ago I had a date with a lady who wanted to friendzone me afterwards. I declined, because I knew that I wouldn't be able to change my feelings or turn them off. That would only have led to hurt. I do still text with her every now and then, but I don't want to spend time with her because I know what would happen to me. She has several male friends who are in her friend zone already. She freely admits they want more and they even take her out and pay. She loves the attention.

But here's the ironic thing: another guy has friend-zoned her. But, they are having sex. Because when a guy puts you in the friend zone, he will still want sex. We will always take sex.

What any man finds attractive is up to him. I have seen men attracted to very plain women, but they feel she is beautiful. Women I think are beautiful my FWH will say "meh!". He had a crush on Carol Burnett growing up. She is not what anyone would call pretty or beautiful, but he thought she was gorgeous.

You can be not really "attractive" "pretty" or "beautiful" but some man will think exactly that of you. I have seen it and heard it.

As someone else said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So, yes men will be attracted to your looks, but that doesn't mean anything really more than he likes the way you look. KWIM?

I can say for a personally known FACT that not all men are wired that way, owningitnow. I have gone for years without thinking about any other women sexually besides my very own wife.

I have had numerous friends who were girls when I was younger and women now that I'm older and saw them with the same kind of heart and mind that I've had for other completely innocuous and innocent relationships like my grandma or mom.

I think that it really depends I the guy and also the gal in question. Many gals give off a certain vibe and/or carry themselves in a certain way. Those indicators do tend to either incite certain thoughts or dissuade and discourage such. Not to put it all on the gal there, but I do think a lady can help or hurt that kind of thinking to a certain degree.

I think too that some men see women as peers and equals while others simply see meat and a drug of sorts. And there's a whole lot of in between too.

If a man is taught to respect a lady, then that makes a serious difference in how he treats and regards them. I think that's even true with how women/girls are taught regarding THEMSELVES. If they are taught that they are just sex objects at best, then that's what they believe oftentimes. Such a belief limits their self worth and self esteem and teaches them to aim low and not expect or demand BETTER for themselves.

Hi OwningItNow

You post forced me to reflect.

In retrospect, sadly, I think that both of those might have held true for me with XWW.

Thankfully I have learned. At least a little.

With my developing relationship with MMS, it might still hold true in some way. What the difference is though, this time, "the best looking woman he can get" looks at everything she is as a human.

Man I like what I "see". With each interaction, caring gesture, and recognition that she actually sees me, my hopes, my heart, my fears and frailties. She giggles at my stupid, without making me feel demeaned. She compliments my weaknesses and accepts my frailties and unquestioningly supports me in those, without trying to change me.

Now with the description that you have just read above. don't you agree with me that she is the most beautiful woman in the world. Now how can I help myself fall in love with a woman that "looks" that good, even when I have a suspicion that most of SI will be telling me "too soon".

And I know in a way that most BH, while loyal themselves, know this to be true when they post things about no man wanting to just be friends with a woman. I will commonly read things that sound like, "I know how men think." And THEN I trigger badly, upset at the idea that any man who befriends us, talks to us, helps us, gets to know us has questionable motives. Are we women foolish to NOT see it that way? Do you think we are foolish to allow friendships with men if we are not romantically interested?

First of all, that is a generalization born of some truth. One of my best friends is a woman (also a distant relative, which is how we met). We went to the same HS and had the same friends, we've been friends for over 3 decades. She is very attractive, I'm attractive, we have never (well I have never and I am unaware of her ever) had any sexual feelings for each other. I have plenty of other female friends for which this is true, though she is the only one who I have a very tight emotional bond and shared history that might make a wife uncomfortable (it did make my wife uncomfortable at first, but now they are good friends... at least until my friend finds out about the A)

A recurring theme here is boundaries. I've been particularly interested in the EA aspect lately, because that is how my WW got started down the wayward path. I think it is pretty clear that when a male friend starts getting interested in (or too interested in) intimate details of a woman's life, starts getting too involved, too communicative, red flags and warning flares should start going off. The same is probably true of women friends vis a vis married men, but we're speaking in generalities here. So to continue with another generality, men generally don't get into emotions and intimate feelings with friends (I think this is less true of women). If that does happen with a man, then something is almost assuredly not platonic about their feelings and intentions (their intent may not be known to them, it may be subconscious, but likely they know what they are doing).

When emotional intimacy becomes a part of a friendship between opposite sex (or same sex I would imagine depending on sexual orientation) then it is a problem IMO. I'm very curious about what the line is exactly. I'm encouraging my WW to explore that question as a part of building new boundaries for her.

Now I think, "Is this why he's friends with me? Does he somehow believe I think of him 'that way'? Ewww. No." ...when we are nice, they believe we are interested! Because that's how they behave when they are interested! Omg! So many times guys I was not interested in made a move, and I would think, "Whhyyyyy????"

I feel so one dimensional.

Oh, good lord. Could you rake those fingernails down the chalkboard any harder? Yes, we male homo sapien, sapiens are biologically affected by women. It's evolution, dear. It just is.

Now, I cannot, of course, speak for approximately half of the 7 billion people on this planet, but I honestly don't think I'm all that different than the average Great Ape on this planet.

I can't speak for 3.5 billion women, either, but for most of my life I've existed in a world in which women go out of their way to look good. Women's fashion is a multi-gazillion dollar industry. Then there's all of that make-up and that tools that go with it, not mention jewelry and accessories, hair styles and... all that jazz...

And you're seriously surprised, and seemingly offended, that you have a biological affect on men?

As evolved as we are, surrounded by the very evidence of human brilliance (such as the computer you're using to read this), we are still animals, the product of a billion years of trial and error.

Give us a break. We're only human.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:12 AM, March 12th (Monday)]

Why are women surprised when after they watch their

weight. hit the gym, dress with care, from head to

toe, same care with their hair and makeup. Work

their style for their maximum attractiveness, then

complain why men find them attractive.

I can accept that because a man wants to date a

woman does not mean a woman has to want to date

him.

The friend zone.

Women if you do not want to date a man do not

put him the friend zone. He will just orbit you

using the friend angle to get you to eventually

date him.

Also, do not be that woman that is a friend zone

Orbiter. The woman that feeds her ego by seeing

how many men she can keep orbiting around her in

the friend zone.

The men that have poor to no social skills will

hang in orbit forever because they want a

girlfriend. Having a girl friend is better than

nothing. Do them a favor and set them free.

Don't let them waste their time for something

that is never going to happen.

Basic biological evolution still rules today.

Men want sex, they want heirs, the means to the

end is a woman.

In high school, college, work place, hanging out

with male friends, men talk about did you just

see that woman, she is pretty.

Men do not say: do you think she comes from a

good family, does she have good table manners,

is her family wealthy, is she a college

graduate, does she have a good career, does

she make a lot of money.

Though women will say these things about men.

We say to each other: how much me would like

to do her.

Then if we get the opportunity to date her. This

is when we get to know her as a person. Does

she treat us well, honest, does not lie, faithful.

In short she is a good person. The whole package.

Looks that match the personal values that a man

wants.

Notice no need for a woman to have a good paying

career. We want a good wife and mother. The two

most important careers.

A reminder of the Guidelines for everyone:

Speak for yourself, not an entire Gender.