SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Today is the first anniversary of my initial DDay.

Happy effing new year.

DogsnBooks, I'm so sorry, I'm not at that point yet but I know it's going to be very painful. Try to stay very busy and maybe even see if you can get into your counselor today. I had to get through my birthday, which was very painful, as last year, SAWH encouraged me to get a hotel room with my girlfriends to go shopping and he ended up sleeping with 2 prostitutes and tried to arrange a threesome. I stayed busy and it passed. I hate my birthday now though. Ugh.

Veryhurt,

That's a lot of crappy new information to process. I too have serious doubts that My WH only got HJ's and oral sex "tiwce" from Massage parlour workers. He did this for over12 years. Does he seriously think I believe that?

Curious to find out how you figured out the truth. Do they simply lock themselves in a room with a therapist for hours until the WH finally admits there is nothing more to tell?

I am finally seeing a betrayal trauma therapist who works with a CSAT. I will be asking my H to see the CSAT for an evaluation then they are planning a fourway session with us for possible full disclosure and/or diagnosis.

My H, like yours, seems to be very good at TT. My gut tells me there is so much more that he is not admitting.

I'm glad you have all the facts to work with now, even though they are horrible. Giving oral sex to a prostitute is as gross as it gets, I agree.

Wishing you a better 2019 than 2018.

Happy New Year to all me SI friends who have helped me get through this painful time. I wish everyone a happier 2019 and a very healing year to come.

Shocked123, I had my first D-day in May 2018 and I have literally searched full-time ever since then. I found a way to recover all text messages as well as old e-mails that he deleted. Don't even ask me how because I'm not sure if I could repeat it. We have 2 MAC's and 2 PC's and used both of them in different ways to find stuff. I found so many e-mails and texts it's just crazy. The hardest one was GIVING oral sex to prostitutes though. Who the hell stoops that low. It's just crazy. I also discovered in every text that he sent out that he was asking for "GFE" which I had no idea what that was, and later discovered it was "Girlfriend Experience". This is how I started searching for people he gave oral sex to. I also contacted both his affair partner and his ex-wife to get more details. At first, I was mad at the affair partner, but then I realized that she was not the one that was responsible for him staying faithful in his marriage. He was. He has admitted to about 175-200 prostitutes in the last 5 years. I'm pretty sure it started before then too. We had a 4-hour therapy session last Wednesday (before Xmas) and I literally sat on top of him facing him and held his head and told him over and over again that I loved him no matter what and that I would help him get through this. That's when he finally admitted to everything, while he was balling his head off.

The other thing that came out in therapy yesterday is that he started cheating on me 3 years after we got married, when I was home taking care of a 1 and 2-year-old. He also told me that at the beginning he didn't use protection. Sick!!! I'm so glad I already know I didn't get a STI.

SAWH is at his Sex addition therapist right now reviewing a letter that he is sending to his whole family that lays everything out how it all went down. They have no idea all the details, but our couple’s therapist thinks this is a good idea, so they know the magnitude of everything and that I have done nothing wrong (his mom said I had some blame in this and it infuriated me).

And to think just 8 months ago, I had a perfect life, with a wonderful husband that supported us with a great job, 2 wonderful children and a happy marriage. Wow have things changed. Hoping that 2019 is a year of healing!!

DogsnBooks, how did your day go yesterday? Did you survive and keep busy? I hope you are doing well and healing.

Shocked - Ditto! It's amazing how we thought we had the perfect marriage until Dday. Blew me away!

VeryHurt! OMG! I'm so sorry! I know my WH has been to Massage Parlours and was with at least one prostitute but I haven't confronted him on that yet. Obviously, there were many more! I can't wait until the day I throw my proof on the table and watch his face. I found out he searched for threesomes all the time. So, of course, I'm sure "We" paid for a few of those too. The first thing I thought about when you said around 200 prostitutes?! Is he going to pay you back? That's what pisses me off is how much money WE spent!

Dogs - I am not looking forward to the 1st anniversary of Dday. Hang in there and be strong!

Dogsnbooks, yesterday NYE was the eighth anniversary of my initial Dday (there were quite a few more). I am doing ok. But it is always hard to pass through the New Year portal. My best to you. It’s a brutal ride.

I need to take an SI vacation. I'm not sleeping, headaches and ic flare, neck pain is at a high, can't concentrate, can't think, hard time getting motivated.

I love you all.

XX Lionne/Scaredykat

PS Someone else will have to do the resource page when it occurs at 50 pages.

I feel like I’m going insane!!! The lies are just too much!! I don’t even know my head from my ass anymore and every time I ask SAWH anything, I don’t have any clue if it’s the truth or not!!!Im not strong enough to leave the marriage yet but I need to so badly!!! Too much for me to bare!!!!

veryhurt, I can so understand what you are saying. It's maddening the lies and the heartlessness of these addicts post discovery. We desperately need some awareness of what was our reality and some re-assurance from the very people who harmed us. What they need to do is calmly and maturely sit down and give a full disclosure and some sense of their commitment to us. As I type this, over four years after my multiple D-days, I know that the possibility of that happening is about as likely as my seeing a unicorn in the back yard. Their initial relational betrayal is compounded by their behavior post discovery. This is a deeply traumatic experience for us.

When I finally accepted that my husband would continue to lie and protect his addiction, it helped. I was enraged, no doubt about that. I was deeply saddened. I was so traumatized by the realization that he didn't care at all about my trauma and pain. But that was reality. They have to be in active, sincere recovery for some time before they show empathy and integrity.

So what worked for me, slowly and painfully, was to find time each day to get away from my husband and his addiction. To focus on me and my well being. At first, honestly, sometimes all I could do was take a walk around the block with my dog. Sometimes I couldn't even do that. But slowly, I realized how much more peaceful it was to get away from all of the pain and ugliness of my husband and his addiction. It was so nice to feel better about me and about life.

I also became so exhausted by the lies. And as tickle truth continued, I often became so overwhelmed by the disclosures....so shocked and ashamed and disgusted. At the same time I desperately wanted to know what he had done and then feared the truth. It was awful.

So I had to detach from my husband and his addiction. I had to focus on me. I found an individual therapist who specialized in treating trauma. That has been life saving for me.

I read so much about this addiction and got a better understanding of what my husband was likely to do post discovery and why he would do it. I have a library of sex addiction books. Ugh. I'd rather have a library of something else. But it helped to educate myself and learn what to expect.

Detaching from my husband actually helped me to see him more clearly. As tickle truth continued for a couple of years I really understood that I may never know the full truth of his behavior and thinking. I know enough. I also know that he had to get insight into the depths of his objectification and addiction and that takes time. He's not honest about what he has learned, but I am aware that he has more insight than at first.

It was an emotional roller coaster in the first year or two. I was deeply traumatized and very fragile for the first year. Please be aware that you are traumatized. We need help with this trauma.

It will get better. It's painful and it takes time. I had to rediscover me and invest in me. I had to put my well being first.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 8:56 AM, January 4th (Friday)]

ashestophoenix, Thank you so much for taking the time and writing this for me. I really appreciate it. I just feel so broken inside, and it's sometimes overwhelming. I know it will get better but I just need to find strength, which I don't have right now. I'm so busy with my volunteer work right now, I'm just trying to dive into that and not think about my crazy life. I'm hoping to have a good weekend, and hopefully I won't think about it.

I’ve been reading but life ...

Veryhurt-

I’ve been out of ouch - do you have an IC, it helps. Ashesis full of great help, so everything she said!

Lionne -we will miss you - and as a great find named Lionne has said to me “self care self care self care!”

Dogs - how are you? I went away for my first DD, sat out side most nights and cried quietly. The weather was beautiful and the deer got so used to me they’d walk right up to my patio - one foe had twins, and eventually adopted a third fawn. So it was me, mom, the twins and junior ... and occasionally my son in law sitting off in the distance keeping an eye on me. Quietly in the dark. I stayed gone for the 6 weeks of his A, it was the most horrible and painful thing. I hope you are as okay as you can be

Veryhurt & Shocked - get a counselor for You. That’s finally helped me. Now I may not know if he’s ever going to be truthful, but I’m beginning to trust me to deal with lies, to know when their are lies

For me, recap, we sold our Victorian house in 4 days, leased an unbuilt smart home and I tried new ptsd meds, ended up in hospital - turned out I have a growth on my thyroid. The day our boxes were finally unloaded my daughter in another state developed preeclampsia and I flew to her.

Update - I’m home, after a month and a half, my thyroid is “not cancerous yet, but must be biopsied every six months”.

Baby boy, it got serious suddenly but all are healthy. I miss that joy now so much. I’m not a baby person, didn’t even attempt to hold him for two weeks . Honestly I was afraid he’d reject me - that’s the FOO PTSD / TT, mindfuckery of SA PTSD at work. But one day I heard the son in law cussing the dog and misunderstood (my FOO again) and felt absolute internal oh hell no protection of the baby boy- he saw my face and quickly said, I’m talking to the DOG! I told him leave the damn dog alone and said - oh my - I love that kid, picked him up and we were fine and happy. He’s a grumpy little old man, and loves my reading glasses, would stare at them for hours while we walked about.

As far as “my healing” and “our recovery” - he came to me at the daughters, we drove home together. I’ve been weirdly disconnected from real life, all this crap. Now I’m back - in a home filled with boxes - I’m wearing an old pair of his jeans cause I can’t find anything at all.

Reality hit last night. I have my first IC since early Nov today. It would be easy to cancel and head back to bed.

This house is weird - blowing AC versus cast iron silent rads. Shared wall (townhome) versus a stand-alone home. Living in the city versus out in the middle of no where.

I working on middle of year two - question - for those in recovery - what do you make of “she will just have to decide to trust you” his accountability guy and his IC have told him this, he’s repeated it to me. - it enrages me - I feel like it puts it on me, and also - it’s just not that easy.

Ok - I’m going to IC

All of you - ((hugs))

DDay anniv (NYE) was a rough day.

SAWH did basically nothing to try to make the day any easier on me - in fact, all he did was make it worse.

Despite the fact that I’ve brought up repeatedly over recent months and weeks that this day was going to be extremely difficult for me, he was somehow surprised (?) that I was annoyed and snappy with him. And then when I tried talking to him about WHY I was so upset - ie, today is a hard day full of triggers - he just brushed me off and said that “as long as you’re in this mood and acting like this, of course it’s going to be a bad day.” Umm hell no. I called him on that and he said that well he “had to say it,” he “has to look out for himself.” Whatever the hell that’s suposed to mean.

I don’t know why I thought the day would be different than any other day, that I’d actually get empathy. Literally all I would have wanted would be for him to acknowledge the anniversary and acknowledge the pain he’s put me through this year. Instead all I got was excuses and Victim Mode and criticism.

I didn’t even get a chance to escape because our friends canceled plans due to illness. So we rang in the new year by sitting on the couch watching a tv show.

Another a somewhat brighter (?) note, I have set a boundary and I am sticking to it. We have been back and forth and back and forth on the full/therapeutic disclosure and from my perspective, he keeps putting it off. So I set a boundary. January 31. Either he sets up and completes the formal disclosure (to be completed in the presence of our MC) by the end of this month, or I will request him to move back out of the house until I get the disclosure. And if he refuses to leave, I am prepared to find somewhere else to stay myself. I can’t keep waiting around. I refuse to waste 2019 that way. I need some safety and protection from myself - either it comes from a disclosure, or it comes from distance.

I’m also toying with the idea of a polygraph to accompany the disclosure, though I haven’t brought that up to him yet. I’m not sure how accurate they are (Aren’t they generally not admissible in court cases anymore? Which would say to me, not reliable) and frankly I’m not sure I could afford it.

Our IC at the time recommended a poly. And gave us names and numbers of people she liked and who were experienced.

It was very effective in that it scared him and he told the truth as he saw it before hand.

Now ... he told me he had sex with a woman he just had an EA with flirting with and fantasies of, she never actually followed thru on going to his room for sex. But he figured he’d “told me more, so he wasn’t lying”

He passed. And he’s had more polys, as “I’m committed to them, I will do them” he says. I don’t have faith anymore in them, don’t go or even provide questions.

So basically my current IC says “as long as he believes his current delusions, he can pass”

for me it was effective in getting out a timeline, and getting to most of the truth. It motivated him with fear. It sped up the SA diagnosis. So I’m glad we did it.

Dogs and SMJ - I had SAWH take a polygraph and he passed the entire thing. Then 3 months later, I discovered that he lied on almost every question!!! Just wanted to let you know so that you don’t just rely on the polygraph!! Very painful!!!

“she will just have to decide to trust you” his accountability guy and his IC have told him this, he’s repeated it to me. - it enrages me - I feel like it puts it on me, and also - it’s just not that easy

OMG, that would be enraging and unacceptable to me. If your H is working a traditional 12 step program for SAs his sponsor would normally say nothing about you accept in so far as to encourage your H to be radically honest and respectful of you. It's not for a sponsor or accountability partner to be telling an SA what his wife or partner should be doing. It is also not for the IC to say what you should be doing; the IC needs focus on helping your H to do what he should be doing. And what he should be doing is attending to his own self-his own healing; his own journey to become a decent human being.

You are under not obligation to trust; you are under no obligation to love or respect. Your obligation is to yourself; to do what you need to do to heal from the damage your H's degeneracy has created.

Good that you are going back to IC; I hope your IC is trauma experienced and can help you keep focused on yourself.

[This message edited by marji at 5:17 PM, January 4th (Friday)]

Veryhurt I'm also so sick of the lies.

I thought I was doing so good and then yesterday, he told me he was at a welding store to pick up a "welding brush". Well, I checked his location that I track and he was downtown in the city where his massage parlors are. Just for the hell of it, I googled nearby parlors and bikini coffee. Yep! There was a bikini coffee stand right across the street and his map showed he went there! One of the things on the contract I showed him was "NO" bikini places and he agreed.

I totally lost my 180 and confronted him. (He doesn't know I can track his location) so I just told him I google mapped it to see what was close. He lied again about going to any of those places. He said he has "Never been at one". After I nagged and cried and begged him to tell my how many times he has been to a bikini stand in the last five years, he FINALLY admitted to somewhere between 30-50 times! So many, he could not remember. Oh, and he got pissed at me because I even asked! He said, "Why the f*@# are you throwing this shit in my face every month?! You're the one that's doing this and YOU need to get over this bullshit! I'm not lying to you!" Well, he has lied 5 times already about this subject. Including lying to me only one hour before I begged him for the truth.

So far, He has only admitted to Porn and bikini coffee stands. I feel like I take 10 steps forward and 20 steps back. I am so depressed today and mad at myself for even asking/begging him to tell me the truth.

Questions:

1. He keeps doing the "I'm doing everything right because I don't want to lose you" speech. Can he seriously go cold turkey on everything?

2. Does he know he has a problem?

3. Have any of you had your WS sign a postnup?

4. For those of you that got a D, are you happy and relieved now?

Marji - I told him allll that and yes, my IC is specialized in betrayal trauma - she works with SA betrayal specifically. She’s amazing.

Saw her today and told her he said that AGAIN to me. He saw his, and his said “let’s stop saying that”. My IC is his ICs mentor, which we didn’t know when we chose them, but it works out very well for us, they can communicate with our permission, so she’s able to call bullshit, and

I have more then a few issues with his accountability guy - we will leave that there for now.

Veryhurt - yes, as I said, poly with someone who is delusional, well, that has left me unable to trust polys.

Bluetears -

1. no, I don’t believe they can go cold turkey, not without help from others, not without real work. That’s just my opinion, maybe I’m wrong. But in the end, if my SA isn’t in IC and group, I will leave because I don’t feel safe

2. I don’t know, mine did know - thought he could stop at any time, was too embarrassed to ask for help, etc. and the deeper he got the more delusional he got.

3. To get me to stay he’s agreed to fill out a divorce paper/settlement sign it, of course, he hasn’t. But he did put a chunk of money aside in my name alone and pays into it monthly, not a lot, but it wouldn’t be included in any settlement. It’s to give me “running away” money.

4. We aren’t divorcing, as of yet

There was a bikini coffee stand right across the street and his map showed he went there! One of the things on the contract I showed him was "NO" bikini places and he agreed.

Smjsome1, Don't know what a Bikini coffee stand is. Can you get BJ's there or anything else? I'm with you, I will not stay in this marriage if he is not in SA, because I can't trust him at all.

bluetears, I think a SA can go cold turkey if he finally admits that he has a problem and he goes to SA (or the like) and work the steps. Now that I'm fully immersed in this, I don't know if there is any other way. I haven’t done a postnup. I think for my SAWH, he knew he had a problem about 2 years ago but didn’t want to admit it. He said that he buried it and tried to run away from it for years now. Then he finally admitted it after 7 months of intense therapy.

Smjsome1, I’ve been in intense therapy almost daily since D-day. I go to 4 types of therapy, so I’m over-therapied out right now. Ugh. I'm feeling like it's getting me through this unbelievable trauma though so that's what matters.

[This message edited by veryhurt2018 at 9:22 AM, January 5th (Saturday)]

I had experience with the "She will have to trust you" as well. What a pile of bull hockey.

The first thing to consider is that your husband is just out and out lying. Mine was. He made it up. It was his typical manipulative, controlling, "oh I'm such a victim" behavior. Then I realized he mishears things or only hears what he wants to. So if someone says to him "it's your wife's choice to forgive you or not" he will hear that as "it's your wife's job to forgive you." It's also just their distorted thinking. When I started IC, my husband insisted my therapist was working on getting me to forgive him. One of the first things my therapist said to me was: "You don't have to forgive him."

This is actually a good test for recovery. If they keep saying this kind of b.s., they aren't recovered and they sure haven't done the steps. No where in 12-step does it say the other person owes you, the addict, amends. And amends are not about the addict. When my husband started changing his words about my trusting him, that's when I knew he was taking recovery seriously.

I was all over the idea of a post-nup. I consulted attorneys about this and I'm so glad I did. In my state, they have no legal standing. They are meaningless. I also got my first legal consultation for free since the state bar association has a free one time referral program. The attorney was very, very helpful. And he gave me the name of the attorney, that I paid, who was even more helpful in explaining financial and health insurance issues of divorcing my husband. If you can afford it, I highly recommend talking to a good divorce attorney. They will NOT be shocked about hearing about porn addiction. They get this all the time.

ashestophoenix