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At what point is it an emotional affair? I’m trying to figure out when does a WS puts the breaks on so it doesn’t delve into an affair at all. Are some friendships too close? Or should spouses have friendships or acquaintances of the opposite sex at all?

my WS is in a job where he meets and interacts with a lot of people. should conversation be only about the job? what makes it jump into the next realm?

It becomes and ea when you feel it’s inappropriate imho.

For me, it’s inappropriate when any communication is being kept a secret and you are talking about marital issues. Also, if you are saying things or doing things that you would t sinwith your partner standing beside you. So flirting also.

When they make the decision to discuss intimate details that they wouldn’t be comfortable to discuss in front of their spouses. I include here everything from “my marriage is struggling (which may be true but talk to your spouse about it), I am not happy” to “I find you attractive, I want to screw you”. When they consciously decide the wife/husband doesn’t need to know they had a drink together after work, or they sat down at lunch together. The moment they feel the need to hide something it becomes an emotional affair as it starts building a bubble of intimacy around the APs and distance from the Spouse.

In Not Just friends it is describes it clearly: when you question if a conversation is appropriate or not imagine your spouse listening to the conversation, would you still be comfortable to say the same things? Imagine someone is recording the conversation and plays it to your spouse, would he/she find it upsetting?

Have you read "Not Just Friends"? This is covered well in the book. The basic guidelines as I can remember are when the "friendship" crosses over into 1. secrecy, 2. intimacy, and 3. sexual tension.

If you are concerned I would highly recommend the book in terms of a WS having a plan and very clear boundaries about how to act appropriately with members of the opposite sex.

I'm with Luna10 on this one.

If someone doesn't tell a spouse about the relationship/friendship (the lunch, the drink, whatever), it's a relationship that is not friendly to the marriage.

My WH and I constantly struggle with the semantics/definition of EA vs (his term) "insignificant" friendship with another woman.

To me, doesn't matter. If you have a friendship with someone of the gender to which you are attracted, and you do not tell your spouse about said friendship, it's an EA.

Why? Because (as my WH puts it), deception is part of an "affair". If you are deceiving your spouse (by omission or otherwise), about the relationship, it's an affair

(which is kind of funny when writing this - he can get defensive when I ask/talk about the deception of his LTA PA, saying things like hiding and lying is what an affair is!!! But when it comes to the fact that he never told me about the existence - let alone the lunches/phone calls - for the 15+ years he was "friends" with the OW before he considered having sex with her, he says he didn't tell me bc it was "nothing significant"! Waywards seem incapable of recognizing their own bullsh*t).

i think I'm referring to normal stuff but i'm not there. like the weather, or a meal served at the club or holiday/weekend plans. but maybe in email or something. is that ok?

If the communication is against your wishes or hidden from you (by omission or other more direct lies), it is EA. If a wall is built to keep you out rather than keep the other person out, it is EA. If your spouse would be angry if the tables were turned, it is EA.

I have had some issues with this topic since my husband became friends with an opposite sex coworker. He messaged her everyday for a couple weeks then decided to tell me. That is inappropriate. They also discussed our relationship issues. That is also wrong. I would place that as borderline emotional affair. I don’t think it got to a full emotional affair as he told me and stopped talking to her after 2 weeks.

If 2 people are coworkers that occasionally talk about the weather and food or something I wouldn’t worry about it. If this person is being hidden from you or they are texting everyday I would be concerned. Still doesn’t necessarily mean anything is going on, as I found out in my case but I would still be alarmed for sure. If they are just talking about the weather every few days I really wouldn’t worry about it.

My husband realized what he was doing was wrong and he stopped it in his own right away. I was mad for a long time but I now realize that he knew he was acting a little bad and he put a stop to it. I guess as long as your husband has good boundaries you probably have nothing to worry about. If he starts devoting too much time into a friend I think that would be the beginning of an emotional affair.

The relationship with the other person should never get to the point where feelings are possible to develop. I work with many men. I know nothing about them unless it’s job related. I don’t know if we have anything in common. I don’t know many of their marital statuses. Nothing. This is how I keep my boundaries strong. Once the conversations switch to personal topics - feelings can begin to develop and then the hormones may dictate the next steps, not their rational adult brain.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:19 PM, April 16th (Monday)]

Sewardak - I’ll try to respond to your second post from my perspective before the A. No, talking about the weather, weekend plans (as long as they specify the entire family without avoiding mentioning that you’re married), movies, a meal at a club is not an EA. I’ve done this and still do with the opposite sex for all my life and I didn’t have an A, emotional or physical. I ask my male manager what his weekend plans are and tell him mine. It is normal conversation. He tells me about his kids and I about mine. I ask how his wife is and tell him how my H is. General conversation. Sometimes we have lunch together as a team but never alone. I have alone meetings with him as he’s my manager. I’m sure he thinks I am attractive and I think he’s a good looking guy too but it isn’t something that crosses my mind every time I interact with him, except now that I am writing this down I thought I’d mention it to emphasise we’re not blind. But we have boundaries, we don’t go out there engaging emotionally and physically to every attractive person we see.

Now after the A of course my bells are ringing every time I hear my WH saying a woman’s name. I listen. If he knows way too many details about a woman’s life I wonder why. For example one of the women on his team (he manages her) has issues at home with an abusive husband, she’s divorcing him. He HAS to know about it as she has last minute time off requests and days off due to her situation. But if I’d hear they are having lunch together just the two of them or drinks after work I wouldn’t be comfortable with. In the past I would have been. In fact in the past I would have been comfortable with a lot of there was transparency as I believe I know him and when he talks about it, when he doesn’t hide it then nothing wrong seems to be going on. He’s one of those who hid his A so well I never heard the ow’s name till about a month before DDay. And when I did hear her name I knew immediately something was wrong as who knows so many details about another person’s life but never mentioned her before?

I still remember that conversation: car shopping, he discovers the salesman is related to her and launches into “X said you need to visit more often, the kids miss you”. And then when I ask who’s X he launches into telling me this woman’s life story that I have never heard of before in my life.

Non work conversation opens a window to a possible EA. After what we’ve been through with our WS, we deserve safety. As much as possible. Work convos only.

WW here. Hope its okay if I respond. I had an online EA but what I wanted to discuss here was my issues with men that went way....way back to when I was still working (I'm a SAHM).

Those of you who would never ever cheat won't understand the WW mindset. For example my BH has the strongest boundaries when it comes to opposite sex coworkers. He's never alone with them (unless it's unavoidable). Conversations are all business or water cooler type chit chat. If he talks to a woman about something personal (he asks me first if I'm okay with it) he does it in front of me. He goes out of his way to protect our marriage. I did not. Didn't dawn on me to do any of this but I get it now.

In my case motional affairs began as fantasies in my head coinciding with intimate personal conversations, flirting or intimate alone time (like traveling for work). Mine didn't go beyond this but in my opinion it goes to the next level when one person makes a move and the other simply says "yes".

If my BH chats with a woman about anything beyond the weather and weekend plans (aka questionable) he tells me about it. I now do the same thing for him. Look guys it happens. I was once in a waiting room for an hour and this guy started chatting with me. I responded and while it was totally innocent I did tell my BH about it.

If the interactions were filmed, recorded, and you, the spouse got to watch, would you the spouse, see anything that would feel like a breach of your marriage. So, for instance, the activity might be somewhat explainable or platonic, but the person might be someone forbidden. This was my wife's situation. Meeting a friend for drinks or catching up after years might be okay for most marriages, but my wife's OW was her ex! She admits that if I had a DVD of her affair, none of it would have been okay, even though there was very little that looks, to the stranger, like an affair. But the defining thing is, is it in secret, and would the spouse feel betrayed.

If there are secrets being kept, it has crossed the line.

This is the tricky thing with emotional affairs, and why I believe they are so commonplace...but also why some people don’t realize they’ve done something wrong, until it’s too late.

EAs are the epitome of poor boundaries, and—to a degree—mean different things to couples. Each couple has their own boundaries. Some couples are ok with flirting, for example, while others aren’t.

Anything that is secret, hidden, or takes energy or attention away from the marriage is crossing that line. Anything that is a connectedness or intimacy with another-a feeling of such, is crossing that line. Continuing a friendship with a crush can be as well.

Frankly, I think commanding professional convo only is impossible. It’s ok to know about your coworkers’ lives, but it’s the level of connection and “privacy” that matters. Also, if your spouse is starting to get the tingles or attracted to the coworkers, that should be a boundary trigger for him to disconnect and maintain professional distance.

What your husband needs to focus on is making sure his boundaries are strong. It’s a nreasonable to ask him to be a social hermit at work, or be socially odd because he has to exit any work convo that discusses weekend plans.

Also, if the other person becomes a confidant. That’s a problem. There is absolutely no reason for your spouse to talk about your marital problems or issues with a coworker. Calling someone a “good friend” that you have never ever met. Those are all signs poor boundaries are in play, and an EA may be imminent if not underway.

Someone who has never cheated before, I can see not realizing they are in an EA or cheating, but deep down knows they are getting too close and personal. But a former cheater better god damn well know those limits and signs.

I also like other posters, anything they wouldn’t want you to hear/see or anything that they would be mad about you doing if roles reversed. That’s an EA.

Forgive me, I read some the yesterday, started a big response, and then now have decided after thinking that it boils down to one thing.

DECEPTION or OMISSION OF RELATIONSHIP

My WH had been receiving texts and call from a cOW for TWO YEARS prior to when he officially started thinking about her in a different light. The change in thought was because she started asking him personal questions, sharing her marital struggles, and then telling him how smart, funny, and amazing he was. I had NO IDEA that these texts were going on. They were bullshit banter. He exchanged more texts with her in two years than me. EASILY. Yet I had no idea.

She asked him to do things...go on a race with her...do volunteer work..then after the personal texts/call started...asking him out for a drink after work. He turned all of these things down because he knew it wasn't appropriate. At one point even told her that the texts weren't appropriate. She stopped for a week and then started up again. AGAIN, he NEVER said a work to me.

I knew she existed. I had met her. My kids had met her. He apparently met her husband and their kids. Yet I had no CLUE that he considered her one of his "best" friends. Interesting, seeing as how we never did anything with her family, never sent them a holiday card, or she never called or texted with him while he was with me. Hmmmm....

Funny though, he to this day says a majority of HIS conversations and interactions were something he would have done in front of me. And honestly, I believe it. What I did read of the texts and emails he sent, he was friendly, a little flirty, but in a PG way. For example..."You and your sister looked nice" in reference to a FB pic. The worst I saw was when he responded to her saying that she wished she could call him on her drive home (she couldn't because he was in bed with his wife!) and him responding that he wished he could talk to her too. (Mostly because we had just had a fight and he wanted her to tell him how much she was "into" him). The problem was hers were more suggestive. Discussions of intense feelings for him, wanting to go out on dates with him, asking him to think of her all day long when he was with his family, telling him how she dreamt of him and was sad to wake up and find herself alone and that it was just a dream. So THOSE things he obviously knew were not right, but he really enjoyed someone fawning all over him since he wife was just at home taking care of shit and being ignored.

The point is... When there is a relationship with another woman or man and your spouse does not know the extent nor do discuss this person with your spouse, and actually start talking to this person MORE than your spouse, than there is an emotional affair.

Which honestly will 100% of the time eventually lead to a physical affair if there is any chance. It took almost 2 years for them to get to the more personal start to their EA, but from when my WH actually acknowledge to himself that it was wrong, and when they kissed was 2 months. And that did not slow things down at all, but sped up the frequency of calls/texts/emails on a personal v work email. I have ZERO doubt that it would have been full blown having sex in a parking garage in a matter of weeks. After the kiss he was an entirely different person and an ASSHOLE to me and the kids. It was why I went searching for a reason for his behavior.

So deception. That's my final answer.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 1:39 PM, April 17th (Tuesday)]

It becomes one when you will not show your partner your messages. When you hide them by deleting them. When you chose to confide in someone else other than your partner.

The instant when something sexual is said and you are not offended.

When a person:

1. Cannot repeat what the conversation was in front of you.

2. Keeps the person secret, or minimizes the relationship.

3. Won't introduce you.

4. Deletes message from phone or voice mail.

5. Names the contact a different name.

6. Talks or texts them more than their spouse or significant other.

7. Confides in them about their marriage/relationship.

8. Would they be okay with those actions if you were doing it?

9. I could go on and on.

I will give you a tale of two opposite sex relationships; you tell me which one has an EA component.

Relationship A: male and female business partners, both are married; discussions are held about female partner's husband's business and his upcoming birthday; discussion also includes what male business partner and his family have planned for the weekend.

Relationship B: male and female, male is a hired contractor doing work at married female's house; female is talking to male about her new pajamas & how husband did not comment on how she looked in them; male says that he believes they would look good on the floor next to his bed; female agrees.

Now I ask you, which of these two ACTUAL conversations would you classify as being an EA? It shouldn't take much to figure that out.

[This message edited by CaptainRogers at 10:04 PM, April 17th (Tuesday)]