SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone. I've been on the R forum for quite sometime now, but I worry that effort has been for naught. When did you know that it was time to D? How much effort towards R did you give?

I'm struggling so much every, single, day. My WH says he wants to R, he loves me and loves the children, but his efforts are just not enough for me. He's doing a lot of the "right" things, but he's not give a lot of the stuff I really need (not logistical things) like extraordinary expressions of love and affection, frequent reminders of how much he loves me and why he doesn't want to lose me, very little remorse (says he's sorry, but he doesn't know what remorse really feels like.....trained out of him as a Force Recon Marine Sniper and learned not to "feel" during a terrible childhood). Uuuugh! Excuses? Maybe? Some truth it it....probably, but it doesn't change that I don't feel that he wants me and this marriage more than anything in the world. I feel second choice- that he's here because things with his 27 year old (he was 56 at the time-vomit) girlfriend didn't work out and he's here because, the way it feels to me, it's the "right thing to do".

I'm sad. I no longer respect him. I wonder how much of our 18 years of marriage has been lies. I'm upset with myself. I feel like I've betrayed myself by ever R'ing after A#1 and now for staying and expecting him to come at R#2 with the same remorse (he showed it then), affection, love, etc. as he did with A#1. I feel lost.

Again, he tells me he loves me and doesn't want to D, but right now this marriage feels like nothing but a shell. How do I know when its irreparable? I'm sad and scared.

There's no shame in realizing infidelity is a deal breaker. Once your trust has been betrayed with such intent it's very hard to restore it.

It sounds like he's love-bombing you into rugsweeping his affair.

How do I know when its irreparable?

It's different for every one. When you know, you know.

From another member's profile:

Letting go is hard. Hanging on is harder.

Sorry you're here.

I agree it’s different for everyone. For me dday#3 was enough. It was almost 4 years to the day since dday#1. I had worked so hard, grown and changed so much and realized she was still way back there...

One observation I have made over the years that I have come here for support. Liars and cheats are liars and cheats. When one JFO they convince themselves that there are extraordinary extenuating circumstances that make their WS’ situation “different”. After reading so many JFOs and following so many people here I see clearly the infidelity mindset is does not vary like you think it does. I am not over generalizing and saying they are all the same....but not too far from it.

Detachment is key to clear thinking.

All the best,

TTS.

I no longer respect him.

In my situation, this was a huge umbrella casting a shadow over everything.

Now for me, I just knew it was time because he wasn't able to stay away from his AP and took it underground. Not much to work with there.

But really, after the lies and the disrespect he showed me (and himself) - I'm not sure I could have ever stayed with someone like that.

And once I knew - the sadness, fear, anxiety all went on the backburner until I found a way to get out of this situation that had nowhere positive to go in the future. You will find much strength once you say the words "I have to do this."

If you believe he truly does love you and your children, then let him go and do the work on himself so he can be a better Father - a better co-parent with you. He can do the "right" things in that framework.

When I found out that he had signed up for online dating. He had not cheated but was clearly looking. I have given R my all but clearly he was still in lying/cheating mode. I lost all respect and I knew I could not live my life as a detective.

It was 100 percent the right choice for me.

I do think there are people who can repair the damage but the wayward has to be committed to being truthful and faithful. No half assed effort will cut it.

Hope you make the best decision for you.

As others have said, it's you and only you that knows if D is the right thing.

He's doing a lot of the "right" things, but he's not give a lot of the stuff I really need (not logistical things) like extraordinary expressions of love and affection, frequent reminders of how much he loves me and why he doesn't want to lose me

This describes exactly how I felt. She was doing mostly the "right" things, but it felt obligatory, and very minimal. My belief that she loved me had been shattered, and I needed what you described above, the extraordinary expression of love and affection and reminders of why she wanted to R with me, what she hoped for our future together. Instead of this, I felt her walls, thick and high. Those walls made it an unsafe relationship for me to be in, because she had shown me what choices she makes behind those walls.

It tore my heart out to divorce her. The one year anniversary of my divorce is in a couple weeks, and I'm struggling with my grief. You can love someone and still divorce them. I felt I needed to keep myself safe. Subsequently, I was able to come out of my own fog about some choices and ways of thinking in my own life, which I don't think would have been possible had I been focusing energy on R. I wouldn't have been strong enough to do that.

That's my situation. You have to make the decision for yourself. No one has to live your life but you. Divorce is not easy. Reconciliation is not easy.

Sending strength and hugs

Veteran of a 2 year Goliath attempt at R right here. I knew I had no choice but to D when he was back to treating me like shit on a daily basis. No additional DDays, but the shit treatment is how he villainized me, and gave himself permission to cheat in the past.

I told myself, "I don't deserve this.". And I walked.

He effectively killed any remaining tender feeling I had for him. I simply did not love him anymore. Moreso, I couldn't wait to get away from him. That's how I knew. I didn't even want to be in the same room as him. He made my skin crawl.

I knew it when I gained clarity and really saw him for who he was. He is not capable of the integrity and honesty and unselfishness it requires to be a good spouse. He's too messed up for this role. It's sad for him. I will not martyr myself for a man, though. I am incompatible with someone who isn't capable of truly loving me.

I think you know when you know, like so many have said. I've gone from knowing intellectually but not wanting to accept it to knowing but not being ready to really do what it takes to leave to knowing down to the core of my being and making the moves to get out of this marriage. There's a point you get to when you are truly motivated to leave the marriage and you put your energy into it. It's a process. You may be on that road now, and it's okay. It will be okay, I promise you.

....(says he's sorry, but he doesn't know what remorse really feels like.....trained out of him as a Force Recon Marine Sniper and learned not to "feel" during a terrible childhood). Uuuugh! Excuses? Maybe?

He's got all kinds of excuses for being completely remorseless, doesn't he?

From everything I've lived, read and seen, most serial cheaters just seem to be incapable of having true remorse. Their lack of remorse is what allows them to cheat over and over and over. And now that I hear that this is the 2nd affair that you KNOW of, all bets are off.

He appears to be one of those cheaters who just has no remorse like so many other serial cheaters. But I guess it sounds better if he can get you to believe that it's because of his bad childhood and Marine experience.

I agree with you - I honestly couldn't respect my husband either if he were 56 playing around with a 27 year old. That's just gag-worthy.

Squid is 100% correct. For some, cheating is simply a deal-breaker and you have to stay true to yourself and YOUR values. You should never compromise your own beliefs or boundaries, and you shouldn't have to keep continually lowering the bar just to find a way to be 'ok' with atrocious, unacceptable behavior when you're NOT ok with it.

And it's perfectly ok to NOT BE OK WITH IT.

I knew I had no choice but to D when he was back to treating me like shit on a daily basis. No additional DDays, but the shit treatment is how he villainized me, and gave himself permission to cheat in the past.

I told myself, "I don't deserve this.". And I walked.

He effectively killed any remaining tender feeling I had for him. I simply did not love him anymore. Moreso, I couldn't wait to get away from him. That's how I knew. I didn't even want to be in the same room as him. He made my skin crawl.

This was me in the last 9 years of my marriage - XWH treated me so badly that any cheating was just incidental. I grew to basically hate him. However, I was afraid to go through with the D, so when he initiated it, it was a huge relief for me.

For me, I knew it was time to finally give up when her red flag behavior returned, and then escalated.

To be honest there were multiple red flags I didn't allow myself to see for what they were before my big DDAY.

R was tough. I made missteps in not forcing N.C and allowed myself to be stepped on way too long. It was about 3 years in before I truly was doing well and felt like this truly could work out longterm again.

We were spending more time together, traveling and having fun like we hadn't been able to since before our kids were born... and then my infidelity spidey sense started to tingle.

She started to change her attitude towards myself and our kids. Began lieing about where she was, her one friend called our house to talk with, her when she was supposedly WITH her.. she began lashing out and getting blatant in texting other people in front of me. Suddenly had to be all dressed up for her blue collar job with makeup perfect before she left for work. All the things that you know mean only one thing after you've lived it once.

She showed a lack of respect to me, our children, and the second chance I gave her. She asked for divorce, and was shocked when I said absolutely. Her master plan there began to crumble and reality started to set in for her about 9 months in.

I saw it for what it was, not remorse, but regret her happily ever after with someone new was screwed. I refused to be plan B again. I saw exactly how that played out the first time and refused to do it again.

All said I had 4 1/2 years of false R before she allowed her true nature to be seen again. I knew there was no way I could live with her actions.. I knew too much.

For me, I had to get to the point where I knew what I needed to R. My STBXWH cheated out of town. I found that travel was a deal breaker for me. He chose his job and I filed for divorce. Honestly, that day was when I started to heal. Divorce will be final in a few weeks.

It seems like your WH is falling short. My therapist calls it cutting corners. Nycountrystrong was getting himself out of infidelity when I started here. His story gave me the courage to see my cheater's weaknesses for what they are.

Yeah, I just knew when he could not stay NC and acted like a beat puppy whenever i got angry (which to be fair was often. Wonder why?). It was taking too much from me.

And when I made the decision, it was hard. Really hard. But yet i still knew that it was the best thing for me. I wish it hadn’t ended up like this- I wanted to be a shining glorious R story. But alas, he just didn’t have the moral fortitude to do the hard work.

Still sucks, but this rollercoaster is not as crazy and I am definitely getting better.

Sending strength.

I wonder how much of our 18 years of marriage has been lies.

Sorry you're here mskitty, I can relate to your circumstances. For me, I started to get it when I came to the realization that the three years of infidelity I learned about, felt like most of our entire marriage and relationship. To move forward in R in any form I needed to know the truth, was there more that my serial cheating WW (now ex wife) wasn't telling me. I simply couldn't and wasn't willing to attempt to build a new foundation post infidelity, without knowing the full extent of it all. When I pushed for a polygraph and to keep a GPS on her car - two things I needed, it was met with nothing but defensiveness and push back. Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

I needed what you described above, the extraordinary expression of love and affection and reminders of why she wanted to R with me, what she hoped for our future together. Instead of this, I felt her walls, thick and high. Those walls made it an unsafe relationship for me to be in, because she had shown me what choices she makes behind those walls.

It tore my heart out to divorce her.

Goodness Shatterddd, this resonated with me - the walls. Through attempted R, then divorce, and then during a few dates we had post D - learning that she met with her last AP to find out why he did certain things in the chaos, I realized - FINALLY - I was never plan A, I was simply an after thought if it didn't work out. D tore my heart out as well, but it was these casual dates post D that I came to the realization we were done, I no longer had anywhere near the same feelings for her.

mskitty, remember it's not a clear linear path to figuring out the best path. All good advice here..."when you know, you know"..."Detachment is key to clear thinking"..."Divorce is not easy. Reconciliation is not easy."

Sending strength.

I just had a very weak vacillator, and after a series of disappointments and multiple hurts, I realized that holding onto this broken person was only going to hurt me more. It was many little steps that brought me to my D process. Now he is holding back the D and it is frustrating as hell.

when nothing changes, nothing changes...H continued on with bad behavior...we never R....his treatment of me grew worse...He punished me, for not getting over it...

and as a result....love died...I lost respect...I lost wanting...I lost sexual appeal...I lost safety...I lost hope...HE became lower to me, as he lived lower....He became a loser to me....at times he embarrassed me.

I could still feel rejection...that's my personal issue...that was all that was left..I try to tell myself that I don't wish him ill will...but I do..

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 1:40 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

We rugswept for 2 years after the first confirmed affair.

I got to the point where I decided that I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than with him for one more day.

When I finally realized, and got tired of, that the lying and flat our disrespect from XW was not going to end. And I that *I* could choose to be happy, not staying and being miserable all the time.

Of course, that took me 5 years of buying her bullshit on "I'm going to change this time!"

When did you know that D was the answer?

When he broke NC with AP and refused to send her a letter demanding no contact or we will get a restraining order.

So no more lies and bullshit. I was mentally exhausted and done. I told him to move out and let’s start on D. That was September/October of last year. Healing in progress and all of the fears about D were not reality.

For me, it was when he said he couldn't be faithful. And now, I'm discovering more things about him that confirm that splitting was the right decision.