SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

MilwaukeeMike42, asking if the sex was better is literally punishing yourself with speculation: if she says yes, you are hurt., Is she says no, you can’t believe her.

What about asking about facts, details, things that will leave a bad taste, but will be factual, measurable, concrete? “Did he thrust at 60 bpm?” is going to hurt, because you can only go 30bpm. Is he stronger than me is going to clearly be in his favor, because that’s his profession.

WW chose an AP that is also a gym rat, 6ft, muscualr, very aggressive and macho: the complete opposite of what her values are, or what she has said, for as long as I have known her. And yet.

The mind movies about their sex are damaging, but also the betrayal, not only of me, but of her values! She chose to engage with sex with a guy that represented many things that she had constantly, during our marriage, criticised and actively avoided.

But as others had said, playing the role of a bad girl was far more interesting and fun than being true to herself.

Ultimately, the sex I can ignore: It was probably better, because she was in a hotel, drunkenly screaming while orgasming, while here at home she has to be quiet because our kid gets nervous if they hear noises, and the neighbors are snoopy. She was hanging out at clubs with a tall muscular man that intimated others, and that gave her a sense of coolness that she doesn’t have with me. So, really, the sex is the least of the problems.

The lies, the betrayal, the opportunistic nature of her convictions and values, those are far worse, since now I doubt all that she has said all these years, those are the real problems.

I get absolutely no truth about anything concerning the affairs from my WW. I've been given plenty of lies though and denials. I would give a great deal to have had my WW confess it or any part of it to me first. I'm hardly sleeping, always doubting, drinking now (hard alcohol, mostly long Island iced tea) and in 35 years I've never really drank. Seem to remember a vodka cranberry my sister made me when I was a teen at a party, but I didn't really drink it.

The pain of it is killing me. I've had a gun barrel in my mouth several times over the last 2 months. I'm a master at tying a hangman noose. So at least bro....at least she will tell you about it and be honest more than likely. I'm not trying to minimize what you are going through, I'm just trying to point out that there are several positive aspects to your situation that may be difficult to see right now.

I've not gone without sex for more than a week since dday but I get harshly rejected a lot. It doesn't hurt as bad since I'm already dead inside, but it still doesn't make me feel good at all.

Sending good vibes your way and lifting my drink as a toast to you. Great job on the hug bud. More of that.

Yes... she did confess but I want to say again:

There is a good chance she confessed because the reward/risk ratio decreased to the point it was no longer worth the risk. She got what she wanted from the affair and moved on. She may have confessed to me because she actually felt deeply guilty or to rid herself of all negative/guilty emotions.

If it was only to rid herself of guilt, it's still a positive sign. To have guilt shows that she knows she has violated you, your marriage and her values. I had to pry the info about my wife's PA out of her 16 years and 3 kids after the fact. It has tainted every memory since. My wife continued to lie well after DDay1 and I'm unsure if I'll ever be able to trust her again. It's strange to me, I can actually understand and forgive the affairs, but I'm unsure if I can forgive the lies post DDay1, because I'll never understand why she did that when I gave her a life line to come clean, put everything on the table and work through things, then she looked me in the eye and lied when she said nothing else happened.

[This message edited by Gunnut at 11:00 AM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

Milwaukee,

You more than likely are ate up in PTSD land right now. I see myself in your threads more than you will ever know. I had the unfortunate discovery of photos revealing that the other man had a much bigger hammer than the one I'm swinging. It was a huge huge blow to my self esteem. I had to totally relearn what manhood was all about and it's definitely not tied to that. Like you, my wife came home to me after him and the thought of it disgusted me to the point of vomiting (still does) but I don't let it occupy my mind anymore.

You're going to make it through this with or without her. Each day that passes is a day further away from this hell hole. Your wife has a hell of a lot work to do on her self. I don't have any sage advice other than what has already been given. I'm just here to let you know that you've been heard and we support you.

Uhtred:

You said:

"Like you, my wife came home to me after him and the thought of it disgusted me to the point of vomiting"

Yep.

I almost certainly got sloppy seconds multiple times. I definitely got kissed on the mouth every day she had sex with him which probably included oral. She always kissed me after work and in bed at night.

I have been in so much pain for so long this issue has slipped a little lower on the list. Now I obsess about other issues that will affect the relationship going forward.

Uhtred: Some day I am going to ask my wife to rank order all the horrible things she did to me in this affair. I wonder if she will rank slopy seconds and post-sex/oral kisses to her husband of 27 years on top of the list. I doubt it. I think she will rank the pain, destroying my self-confidence in every area of life and taking away my ability to think coherently and concentrate for months ( still counting ).

To put sloppy seconds in perspective I think that is less terrible than losing a significant part of my cognition and concentration for six months.

[This message edited by MilwaukeeMike42 at 11:52 AM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

have her write you a detailed timeline.

You are going thru hell and you do not have the truth.

then tell her that she will have a poly on the timeline.

Ask her the questions. going for years without answers, you will never heal.

So sorry.

harrybrown:

I have not asked her for a detailed timeline yet.

I got the time frame and number of sexual encounters but have no asked about details.

I am simply in too much pain and fear to talk about the affair. I cant even bear the thought of it.

I am simply in too much pain and fear to talk about the affair. I cant even bear the thought of it.

And we've established that you will have a hard time dealing with the "yes" answers and can't trust the "no" ones...

It seems it's not fading away or spontaneously getting better with the passage of time. Clearly you need to work on how you are approaching this problem.

If you had a difficult problem on a work project, how would you approach it? Apply that logic here.

[This message edited by antlered at 12:49 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

I only read the first page of this thread so this might have been suggested already.

I would write down your questions for her. Have her write her responses. If you are in counselling, give them to the therapist. Then you can ask questions to the therapist who can filter out things that might be damaging to you.

If you don't have a therapist, have her put them in an envelope (or one envelope per question). Give yourself some time (e.g., 1 year from d-day) before reading them. Hopefully by that time, you will have worked the issue enough to realize the answers don't matter and you'd be worst off knowing.

Milwaukee,

You're definitely right that all the sloppy seconds and other issues are not even close to the destruction and pain of betrayal. I know it's all wrapped up in one big package but being betrayed is the worst thing ever. I'm here to tell you that things will get better for you as time passes. Of course that only applies if you deal with this in a healthy manner.

I've made my share of mistakes, wallowed in misery, pain shopped .... and everything else in between but I'm much better today than I was yesterday and so on. This is not new to me of course, as its been 5 years or better for me but I do make this one promise, it won't be like this for you forever.

She didn't give you your manhood nor can she take it away. Remember that. I had people here talk me down off some serious ledges when I was deep in despair. You came to the right place.

asking if the sex was better is literally punishing yourself with speculation: if she says yes, you are hurt., Is she says no, you can’t believe her.

Yes, I completely agree with this, and this is why I always advocate that a man for whom the sex is the killer should divorce his WW rather than sentence himself to living unhappily ever after. When it's the sex, I've never seen what anyone would call a "successful" reconciliation.

I tried one counselor and it was nice to talk to someone but wasn't very helpful, the typical response about affairs. I found the best help with books I bought online. I got the ones with lots of good reviews and I read them (the reviews) to see if they fit me. I had my WH read them too. After the Affair, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, The Aftermath of Betrayal. Some other things that helped me were that I found that if I obsessed about something I felt better if I asked the question, even if the answer was what if feared I could put it to rest. I knew I wanted to stay with my husband. I completely understand how you feel about sex with your wife. it wasn't just sex it was a bonding of two people. But unlike your situation my husband had decided he also loved the OW and so he started to detach from me years before. I was starved for attention-still never thought about cheating- so when it all came out and he asked me if I wanted a trial separation I immediately said no but maybe you should consider that. here's what went through my mind in addition to the sexual questions you have, I thought if we separate we will grow farther apart. I have spent 26 years with this man. he is my life. I know I love him. I don't want to date anyone else, I don't want to be alone. in a few years one or the other could get sick and I want us to be there for each other. I told him we will never sleep apart again no matter how much we fight before bed. I yelled and cried and he listened and did some yelling on occasion and cried to, I threw up I got sick. but I made damn sure we hugged and held each other. I am concerned that if you don't want to divorce that you are going to grow apart and be stuck be one of those angry people you see and wonder what the hell happened to them. I never knew until after d day. now I know what happened to those people. I don't want to be one of those couples who live as roommates. I want to be all in. I still cry after sex sometimes. for different reasons, for love, for gratefulness for the lost marriage and innocence but 19 months later I'm starting to feel a scar forming under the scab. ask her the questions. ask her. it helps me to text and email my husband but sometimes you need to yell at them too. but I also feel compassion for him. i know he didn't realize the depth of the pain i know because i wouldn't have believed it if someone told me. hold each other and cry at least sleep together. i figured he broke me, he has to be around to fix me, and he has. she will too.

[This message edited by Thanksgiving2016 at 2:07 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

I haven't posted my story here, but someone who knows it referred me to your thread. Let me start by saying how sorry that I am that you are going through this. I know the nightmare and want to share my story with you.

During 2005-2006, my wife of 20 years (at the time, together 23) had an affair with her personal trainer. He was 26 and she was 43 with three kids at home. I was deployed to Iraq for a year. I didn't find out until last year, and after 30 years married I divorced the one woman who meant the world to me, my first love.

I also thought we had a great marriage and that she was a great mother. I adored her, our children, and put us first whenever I could. We literally saw the world together. I thought she was the LAST person in the world who would cheat. But I now know that any woman, or man for that matter, is capable of betraying trust.

When I returned from deployment, she was facing some tough family issues from her side. We'd always had a great sex life, but it was different when I got back. There was none. I thought it was from the stress. She turned me down again and again until we became a sexless marriage. I stayed for ten years until our last (DS 19) left for college, then I decided to divorce. That's when the sordid details came out.

My XWW had contracted a strain of HPV that caused visible warts. She didn't want to have sex with me because she was afraid that I would find out. I remember her having abnormal paps and having to get tested twice a year, cervical freezes, a cancer scare, you name it. I had no idea the underlying cause though. When she was finally clear we had grown apart from an intimate standpoint, I hadn't initiated in years, and it became the status quo. We still had fun and raised three great kids, but once they were out I decided to leave.

In a desperate attempt to save our marriage, she came clean about her affair and why we didn't have sex. Later she gave me all of the details. Then later (after D) I found out that she'd had two previous affairs before the trainer. One of these was with her boss, in our home, over a six month period when we had been married for about seven years. On several occasions, I got "sloppy seconds" and kissed a wife who had swallowed another man's seed only hours earlier.

She did not want to divorce and wanted to reconcile. She was horrified at the thought of losing her life, friends, social circle, and the church as a mid-50's established woman with a great reputation. I wasn't having any of it, had her served, and five months later we were divorced.

She had a severe breakdown and was hospitalized, she moved in with her mother, and our kids (especially DD2 and DS3) didn't want to have anything to do with her. She gained 40 lbs, hooked up with her old college friends in her hometown, and became a trainwreck in very short order. It took me a while to understand that she was no longer my responsibility, that what I did was the best for my life, and that she did not deserve my trust or support. She is responsible for what happened to her, the decisions she made, and couldn't be trusted.

There is life after divorce from a cheater, it is a great life without all of the pain. No matter what you do, your wife will always be tainted. I could never see my XWW as a safe partner again.

For me, I have an amazing GF. She was also betrayed after 20 years of marriage, and she is the kindest person I know: an accomplished, professional woman who adores what I bring to our relationship.

My wife was a stunningly beautiful woman, the kind who would draw every man's eye in a room. She was extremely fit, sexual, and outgoing. I naively thought that I had the woman of my dreams who was too good for me. I never understood how I got so lucky, but in retrospect, I didn't. She wasn't anything that I thought she was, and I'd bet neither is your wife.

I know this is a long read, and not sure if it is at all helpful. But what you know is only the tip of the iceberg. Polygraphs are junk science, so if you are basing any decision on that result then you might as well consult a psychic.

Good luck my fellow BS, I truly and sincerely hope that things work out for the best. For me, knowing that my wife allowed me to go down on her as sloppy seconds was something I could never forgive nor forget. It was the ultimate betrayal from my life partner, one that sealed our marital fate and any thoughts of being with her again.

[This message edited by Cromer at 11:05 PM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

I needed to know all the details too. Only my problem is she told me they had normal sex one time and I cannot believe she is telling the truth. They spent an entire night in a hotel room. It’s hard for me to believe it was just one time and no oral. It’s been almost 4 years and I still want to ask her about the details almost every day. I don’t because she just gets upset when i do. I’m not sure whether I do this because I don’t believed her and need the truth or because I want her to tell me they had sex 5 times and she gave him oral twice so I will be so devastated I will leave her.

There is no better way to handle it. Get details and I don’t believe her or don’t ask for details and let my mind go wild.

So I’m pretty much in the same boat as I was before she told me details. I think she is lying and insert my own mind movies for what happened anyway.

It’s hard for me to believe it was just one time and no oral. It’s been almost 4 years and I still want to ask her about the details almost every day. I don’t because she just gets upset when i do. I’m not sure whether I do this because I don’t believed her and need the truth or because I want her to tell me they had sex 5 times and she gave him oral twice so I will be so devastated I will leave her.

There is no better way to handle it. Get details and I don’t believe her or don’t ask for details and let my mind go wild.

So I’m pretty much in the same boat as I was before she told me details. I think she is lying and insert my own mind movies for what happened anyway.

Why do you accept living this awful existence instead of having a real life? Why are you so afraid? Is life without her so scary that you are going to throw away your own chance to be happy? Read what Cromer wrote above:

There is life after divorce from a cheater, it is a great life without all of the pain. No matter what you do, your wife will always be tainted. I could never see my XWW as a safe partner again.

Demand the truth from her about every detail you want to know. If you continue to feel the way you feel about her and her cheating then leave her.

Confusedj, OP has left SI and deleted most of his posts (which is very disrespectful for the posters who took their time to respond to help), so better let this thread fade into oblivion.

T/J - Dark Hole - He is actually posting today.

End T/J

Not on this site. Does he have a new user name? End t/j of t/j.

Sometimes the mind movies are worse than reality. Some of your porn/bodice ripper sex scenes might not have been quite the same in real life. You won’t know unless you ask. Your WW probably liked the sex, at least some of the time. It might not have been as mind-blowing as you imagine. I had to fight through mind movies for about 3 years. It’s finally better now.

Talking to a therapist would likely help you find ways to start healing. Your WW can help, but your healing is pretty much your responsibility, which sucks, but you do have some control over how you heal. It takes time—a long time. Antidepressants can help and you might not need them anymore in a couple years.

Don’t keep things bottled up. Talk to Your WW. Ask a million questions for as many years as you need to. A remorseful WS will not say, “”Aren’t you over it yet?”

Trust me, you do not want to ask if he was "bigger" than you. Just assume not.

I fished a similar question. I recieved a vague answer that makes me assume that it was huge.

Unless she laughs and says that he was tiny, you are not going to like the answer.