SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The mods are pretty good at weeding out trolls. If you see someone with a lot of posts, it's pretty unlikely they are a troll. However, a lot of the men here, myself included, try to drop it how I'd want to receive it. Just the facts. And those facts, because of what your wife did, are pretty atrocious. It's just the way it is. Even if none of the "more awful stuff" is true, even the best case is terrible. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Am I wrong that some of the posters are just trolls ?

I think some people simply project the only outcome they understand, because it worked for THEM. Sometimes, that kind of 'advice' certainly feels like you're under attack and can be extraordinarily insensitive.

Ultimately, I think if you keep reading here and follow other people's stories you will see similar patterns, but you will also find an approach that fits what you need. Which goes back to some of the best advice I got early on -- take what advice you need and leave the rest.

This is the toughest time for you and the toughest part of the forum, but it usually gets you a place where you find out what YOU really want or that you may just need more time and more information to decide your path.

I think I was in shock the the first three months.

Take your time, step back when you need, take care of you first.

The agony will take some time to process, but you will get through.

If you decide to give her another chance, then she will have to do some work to understand her need for that validation -- and if she can become a safe partner for you, so you don't have to wonder about her issues affecting your marriage in the future.

Mike, it's hard to know whether somebody is a troll. There are some men on this site, especially in the JFO forum, who were betrayed and who were bitterly harmed by the betrayal. That bitterness remains and comes out in some of their posts.

However, their perspective is worth considering. We have seen many times here on SI where a wayward spouse "confesses" to an A, there is what appears to be some effort toward an R, and then the betrayed spouse learns that the A has gone underground and is continuing, or that there were multiple other A's, or some such. When a wife betrays her husband and conceals it/lies about it, once that line is crossed, it is sometimes like she is living in "the upside-down" and the lying becomes chronic and widespread.

After an A is revealed, it can be difficult to know if the WW is being 100% truthful. In some cases, the WW is being just truthful enough to get the BH to back off, so that the wayward behavior can continue.

I'm not saying this is the case with your WW. What I will say is that many BH's come onto this site believing that this would never be the case in their marriage, only to find out months or years later that it was in fact the case.

This is sort of a long way of saying that some of the truly bitter voices on this forum, though they may seem harsh and aggressive, are at least worth considering.

I do think your worry about "was it the best sex she ever had" is a proxy issue. You are still pretty early in the healing process based on how healing normally goes from an A like this. Your emotions and thoughts and rage and depression and such will likely continue to be a roller coaster for a year or more. The important thing is to find your heart. Where will it feel the least pain? In the end, you will be left living a life where your wife betrayed you for a younger, fitter, stronger guy. That is a pain you will carry for life. Your choices are to deal with that pain (a) with your WW, who caused it, (b) single, with no wife, or (c) married to somebody else you might meet in the future. Only you can know which of these choices will bring you closest to inner peace.

By the way, the dude billed you for the sex time? That is so over-the-top horrific.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 12:06 PM, June 18th (Monday)]

Mike

Just a couple of thoughts on what you are dealing with:

I’m not big on consequences as in us BS applying actions with the sole purpose of having consequences on the WS. From what you state then your wife came on her own free will and told you about the affair due to her guilt. To me – if that is true – then her guilt and her realizing that it’s not a given that you forgive and move on with her are the true consequences.

I think it’s important for couples to be totally open with each other. Like if this goes on and you are constantly wrecked by the possible comparison and feelings of inadequacy and insecurity then whatever relationship you have with your wife will be unhealthy. I think that is a consequence of her affair. It’s not applied by you, but it’s simply a situation that her affair created. You both need to find ways to deal with that. It won’t be you alone, nor will it be her alone. You BOTH need to work on this and it is probably best done using a professional like a MC or sex therapist.

If she’s truthful that her conscience made her confess then it indicates care for you. I think that if you are open with her about your concerns and that you realize that this issue is so big that untreated it will at a minimum prevent you from ever having the marriage with her that you deserve, at the maximum lead to divorce, then she will be totally on-board with helping fix this.

I strongly advice against you two trying to fix this yourself. Get professional help. Your wife tells you he had a small penis (after all – there is no research that indicates physical size correlates with penis size. Maybe the reason male porn “actors” are relatively short because it gives a visual impression of a large penis) and he might have a small penis (after all – personal trainer hunk on steroids = small penis). But you won’t believe her. She might tell you the sex was terrible and you won’t believe her. She might tell you it was great, but that it doesn’t matter and you won’t believe her. You need a professional to be an in-between to explain what is being said and what it means.

The sex acts? Well… I know what my imagination can create. I can imagine the wildest things. I am one of those fortunate-in-their-misery few that walked in on my finance and OM having sex. I heard the noises a couple of seconds before opening the door to the room and stood there for eternity – or maybe 2-3 seconds – before hitting the light-switch. What I saw was two people having sex. No gymnastics, no fifty-positions in fifty-minutes, no monster-cock and sex-toys and whips and cuffs and kittens or puppies and whipped cream or whatever. Just two people having sex. Grunt, grunt, grunt…

Get the details, but consider getting them in the controlled, professional environment I’m advocating.

I say I am fortunate because what I saw strongly supported the theory that she didn’t cheat for the sex but for what she could buy with the sex.

Wanted to add:

I guess 99% (if not more) of the men posting here do so because their wives had sex with another man. I can’t see how your wife is exceptionally “bad” or how this is an extreme case. In our twisted and hurt world you are just about on par with normal.

The way you are acting towards her is a consequence and one which I am sure is effective.

It lets her know that she screwed up big time.

Let's get past the mind movies for now.

Why did the affair end and who ended it ?

Since the sexual aspect of the affair is critically important to you, as it would be to me, what has she said about that ?

I can tell you want the details but are afraid of your reaction to them. That is where the 'timeline' comes in. You get the timeline, then you don't have to see or be around her and can read at your own pace. You have to find out some details at some point in order to move ahead.

Do you have a gameplan going forward ?

As a man who also had a cheating spouse I would recommend that unless you are the type of person that absolutely needs to know the answers to these questions then let sleeping dogs lie. It sounds as though the two of you of currently trying to reconcile. I wish you the best, its hard work but it is possible.

However, some people do need to know. If you are like that you may need to do this before you can truly move on and be able to fully reconcile. Just remember knowing the most explicit details (was he bigger, did she enjoy it more) wont necessarily help in this process.

Reece

After the affair I stopped talking to almost everyone and started to isolate

I think this can create an even worse version of these mind movies for you. Can you look into an IC in your area ? I really think having someone objective to talk to would be hugely beneficial for your state of mind.

Take what you need and leave the rest. Please keep posting. I don't think isolating yourself even further is good idea right now.

FWIW- I am a WI expat myself. Cheese curds are best when they squeak. I boil my brats then grill them (sorry Northern WI guy here). I also find it unfair that Brown county residents get a special allotment of tickets to the packers . . .ok,ok they paid for the stadium upgrade.

Western:

"Why did the affair end and who ended it ?"

She ended it. She said she ended it because she felt guilty. I do not believe this one hundred percent. I believe it is probable that the ratio of guilt to benefit increased making benefit unworthy of the guilt ( and fear ). I think the benefits of the affair ran its course leaving guilt her predominant emotion.

"Since the sexual aspect of the affair is critically important to you, as it would be to me, what has she said about that ?"

I have asked her nothing about the sex. I hardly talk to her. I can barely look at her. When she asks me to talk I tell her I need time for the pain to subside so I can think clearly.

I do not want to talk to her because if she says anything wrong or fails to say the right thing it feels like a bomb explodes in my chest and it takes three days to get over it.

She is reading a zillion books and documents on affair recovery. She sends me emails outlining what she read. She sends me her plans to make up for her affair. I just cant talk about anything.

She has always been an excellent wife but she has been an even better wife since the affair.

I quit eating for about two months. I really did not start eating normally until about four months. During that time she started cooking more.

I went into a serve depression for the first four months and stopped taking care of myself. One of my jobs was to do laundry. I stopped doing laundry. She took over. I stopped going to dry cleaners. She took over. If there wasnt clean clothes in the house I would have just worn dirty clothes.

I literally became a non-functioning person for four months after the affair. She picked up the slack.

I stopped doing every job I had to do. Didnt pay bills. Didnt cut the lawn. Didnt do anything except go to work, fo for a run( my life long love) and lay on couch in basement away from her .

She was a great wife for 27 years. This is why I am not divorcing her. I want back what we had. I know this is unlikely.

Something I am surprised about concerning this site is the lack of discussion about post-affair sex. We have not had sex in sex months since Dday. I do not even see her as a sexual person anymore. I have let her kiss me a few times on the neck while she was hugging me but have not kissed her on the mouth.

I am sexually repulsed by her. I used to love having sex with her.

The affair totally destroyed my sex drive. I have not masturbated in six months. I have only had one obvious sexual thought in six months.

Last week I was in a restaurant with people from work. A good looking woman sat at the table next to us. I got very turned on by looking at her and thinking to myself that she did not screw another man while married to ME. That was enough to get a public erection. I am pretty sure that was the first erection I got in six months except morning wood. Other than that I have had no sexual thoughts for six months.

Well, let me restate that last idea. I have had many sexual thoughts of my wife having sex with the OM. Some of these thoughts are self-inflicted and some of these thoughts are unwanted intrusive thoughts.

The unwanted intrusive thoughts are usually the same sex acts over and over and over and over.

The unwanted intrusive thoughts include only two things:

1) Vanilla doggy style

2) Rough doggy style

We will never have doggy style sex again.

The self-created sex movies include every sex act under the sun.

Actually the self-imposed sex movies have become slightly less miserable because I have been trying to accept the worst case scenario for each one so I can stay married.

For the self-imposed sex movies I go through ever possible sex act and ask myself if I am willing to get divorced of this sex act. After about three weeks I decided I cannot divorced that specific sex act. I actually researched and created an enormous list of sex acts and spent weeks accepting them as the best I could.

Please keep in mind I have no idea which sex acts she actually did so I am torturing myself with the worst case scenarios of all the unknowns.

It tooks months and millions of iterations of analysis in my head to diminish the absolute worst sex acts including: Did he cum in her mouth, did she swallow it, did he cum in vagina, did they have anal sex, did he cum in her ass.

I have decided I will never get divorced over specific sex acts and I will do everything to get over the. We had a great 27 years together and most of the above sex acts are within normal range.

The sex that just totally kills me is anything that made her have better sex with him than me.

Right now I would not want to stay married to her if he was the best sex of her life. It is an incredible loss of intimacy to me. I do not want to accept this loss of intimacy.

Who knows.... maybe if I wait another six months I will be willing to accept anything. I just cannot imagine growing old without her.

I already accepted that she almost certainly gave him oral sex twice a week and kissed me when I got home from work. I also accept that she had sex with another man on some of the days she had sex with me. These two things are nightmares of epic proportion.

Nonetheless, the idea she had the best sex with another man is worse because in my mind it breaks our most intimate connection.

numb&dumb

I agree I need IC and we need MC but I have put them off until I learn to accept all the sexual pain.

I just dont think I can move forward until I first accept the sexual pain which takes weeks and weeks to digest and accept every single detail.

If I were in IC or MC now I would just cry or explode. I can barely talk about any of this.

One nice thing about the newly arrived rage is it blocks out the agony for short periods but it does make me want to lash out at her which does no good.

If your WW is remorseful she will accept your anger and pain. You will be on an emotional rollercoaster. Do some nice things for yourself. Take care of your own healing. IC will help you process this trauma. Time is your ally.

Take the advice you can use and that makes sense in your situation and leave the rest. You know your WW better than any of us. Strength to you moving forward.

I have been reading many posts in this forum and other forums and have concluded that some of the male users/members are trolls who have never been married.

Getting/being married is not like dating especially long term marriages.

Marriages are like mergers of everything including mind, body, soul, living arrangements, finances, family, future plans and hopes. When these things are bound up with life long commitments problems it becomes incredible difficult to divorce.

The only reason I can think of for divorce is our intimate connection is broken for good. If we cannot be deeply connected then we arent husband and wife even if we live in the same house.

I am just rambling. Totally rambling.

Fareast:

You said:

"If your WW is remorseful she will accept your anger and pain."

I agree and she does when I talk to her. I dont talk to her that much.

"You will be on an emotional rollercoaster."

It is an insane roller coaster but it is better than constant agony.

"Do some nice things for yourself. "

The one thing I can still manage to do it my depression and misery is run after work. It makes me feel better for an hour.

Fareast:

You said:

"If your WW is remorseful she will accept your anger and pain."

I agree and she does when I talk to her. I dont talk to her that much.

"You will be on an emotional rollercoaster."

It is an insane roller coaster but it is better than constant agony.

"Do some nice things for yourself. "

The one thing I can still manage to do it my depression and misery is run after work. It makes me feel better for an hour.

I decided I can accept anything and everything for one six week block out of 27 years.

Then what are you looking to get from us? There is no magic bullet that will either eliminate the porno mind-movies you are having nor make you forget about them. I think you are just falling back on the "it was only 6 weeks" thing to justify your decision to stay but your heart is calling "bullshit" on you. You might want to consider the possibility that after 27 years of marriage you are terrified of losing the life you have become accustomed to. The fear of being alone, financial burdens, and simply upsetting your routine can be paralyzing. For many men this is the true reason they stay. Fear of the unknown.

A couple days ago you were focused on getting the truth about all of the sexual details. I suggested you ask your questions and get her answers on paper to eliminate the chance of her reading your voice and body language and then softening/mitigating her answer. Are you still interested in details?

he one thing I can still manage to do it my depression and misery is run after work. It makes me feel better for an hour.

Then I would advise running for two hours. You need to find more time to help yourself. What else have you considered?

A good IC can help give you more tools to take care of yourself.

I dug like you. I get that and it actually triggered me a bit for the first time in several weeks reading your posts. I just wanted to let you know I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.

On and on trolls etc. I dig into that at times too and wonder and in the end, I think the best thing to do is just to take the advice that you can use and leave the rest.

Also ramble away. If it helps. And if you want to see a big ramble just check out 90 percent of anything I've ever posted. It's good to keep focus but on the other hand...if it helps you? Fuck it just ramble. The whole purpose of this place is to help you.

Hang in there,

[This message edited by MrMagnolia at 2:39 PM, June 18th (Monday)]

Hey, sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I know how it feels.

My wife also cheated on me with a guy that she worked with over the course of several months, which also happened to be the same place where I worked, and I had similar mind movies. I ended up sending her an email with a list of detailed sex and emotional questions that she answered.

The answers were disturbing, but like you, I simply needed to hear the answers. Like for example, she's never been able to have an orgasm without the aid of a vibrator during sex except one time, and it was with him. It definitely sucks and is emasculating, but the one thing I did take some comfort in is what someone else said - affair sex is better because its forbidden and new. So its not really a shortcoming of myself at all as a partner. So try not to beat yourself up too much over something that has nothing to do with your capabilities as a man.

13 years after the affair ended, we are still married to the amazement of everyone that knows our history, and she's been a great wife for the most part. It still haunts me though, and I find myself going back to the email sometimes and reviewing it. It used to make me upset at her even years later if I would re-read it and Id be in a horrid mood for no apparent reason to her, but over the years Ive learned to accept it. Im glad I did write the email and got some answers while the affair was still fresh. I think it helps to feel like you know a little bit more of the truth, even though its probably not the full truth. Only her and the other guy will ever really know that.

Mike,

I get it and understand that what she did destroyed the marriage. I know 27 years means more than 6 weeks but that 6 weeks robbed you of 27 years in the process.

You aren't rambling in your response to me. It gave us better insight of what was going on in your mind.

When it comes to sex, many men feel that this is the one connection, the one thing that is and should be exclusive between a married couple and breaking of that bondage mixed in the with the mind movies is enough to paralyze someone, like it is doing to you.

At some point, you may have to ask the question of who was better since it would be a deal breaker for you if he was and since you will forever hold that anger in if you don't find out.

I know that is not a good situation.

The real question is how to get a true answer from her. She most likely will tell you that you were better either because you are better or because she doesn't want to hurt you. It would be a great polygraph question in this order

1) Has he been the only one she has cheated with ?

2) Who is better overall ?

3) Who was better physically ?

However, this would look so petty to others but in reality, you have a right to know these answers and I don't know how else you will get them.

At least she broke it off on her own but that is of little consequence and at age 50 ??? or so, you should be preparing to spend the golden years with her rather than looking at this mindfuck that you have been given

She was a great wife for 27 years. This is why I am not divorcing her. I want back what we had. I know this is unlikely.

The unfortunate reality of infidelity is that you can never have back what you had. Never. It is dead and gone. The overwhelmingly strong wish of almost every betrayed on SI is that (s)he would like to get back what (s)he had. This, ultimately, is the fundamental core pain of being a betrayed spouse. Your WW took that from you, trashed it, burned it, and killed it. You are left floundering. This is why surviving infidelity is such an emotional roller coaster.

This is also why R only works if you can build a new, different relationship with your WW, knowing what you know about her. In turn, this only works because she can demonstrate to you that, despite the reality that she betrayed you in an unbelievably wicked way, she is now somebody that you can go all-in with in terms of trust and love.

As to sex after D-Day, I've seen two different responses: (a) some couple engage in hysterical bonding, which is wild, frequent, desperate sex, which goes on for a while, then stops, then no sex for a long time, or (b) some couples stop having sex altogether and can go without sex for a year or even multiple years. No matter what, the betrayed usually gets to a place where he cannot bear the thought of doing anything sexual with his WW, and that usually last a very long time. This is in part because of the gross-out factor of the unprotected sex, but probably more from the feeling of being emasculated.

Everything you are saying leads me to believe that you are suffering from severe depression or extreme PTSD. Even more than most folks on here. Y

If this is as far as you have gotten in 6 months on your own, you cannot "process the pain" on your own. You need help.

Get some IC. Don't wait any longer. And make sure who you go see is qualified to treat PTSD and has experience in infidelity.