SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No. Jesus had A LOT to say about adultery, up to and including plucking out your eyes if they lead you to stray. This seems to be something about which Jesus was VERY black-and-white.

Heck he approved of divorce in the case of adultery, but no remmariage, because that would be adultery. The bonds of marriage are life-long.

PS I am not a Christian, but sgudied the Abrahamic religions in College

To the woman at the well, didn't he say "Go and sin no more"? Your husband is continuing in his sin. I am glad I am not God and don't have to make those decisions.

I posit this to you:

Can a pedophile be a true Christian?

Can a serial killer be a true Christian?

Can a person who rapes and murders children be a true Christian?

Can an unfaithful spouse be a true Christian? Does he or she convince themselves that they are good Christians while they are thrusting with some one else's spouse?

This not cherry-picking Christianity, folks. This is not wordsmithing meanings behind the vocabulary used.

[This message edited by Hope2B at 4:37 PM, June 24th (Sunday)]

freetogonow...

Can a saved person sin? You already know that answer. I will keep it simple because of my bad english. So what does sin mean. In medieval Latin, sin (in simple general terms) can mean ‘without’. You are doing this grave act against and without God. You have heard the word ‘sincere’, which means 'without wax'.

You would not know if a person is saved. Only God would know. Look at King David. He committed adultery and murder and was saved before he committed those sins.

In short, the answer is 'yes'. I think the word ‘hypocrite’ is better suited for your question.

Doesn't believing indicate an effort to live morally and the way Jesus would want? Not perfection, just continual effort and a commitment to trying?

Yes, a true christian can cheat. Being a christian does not mean or imply, that person will not sin. Human's are sinners. Christianity is not to be confused with perfection.

A christian recognizes their sins can be forgiven and with a renewed commitment to Christ's covenants, they can redeem themselves and made whole again, i.e., live the life they committed to.

[This message edited by Jorge at 5:34 PM, June 24th (Sunday)]

Simply put, no.

Adultery is a mortal sin. A mortal sin unequivocally separates you from God. As you knowingly commit a mortal sin, you are no longer true and no longer subject to Gods grace.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 6:08 PM, June 24th (Sunday)]

I would have said that a true Christian could not cheat.

However, one of the most genuine Christians I know did cheat on her husband. Afterwards, she was horrified and distraught. She spiraled downward. She divorced her husband, and then remarried him once she normalized. As far as I know, she has been an exemplary wife and mother since. This woman was such a true believer that she approached her faith with complete humility — never talking about it except when asked, and living a Godly example in all respects theretofore and after. She was/is one of the best humans I’ve met.

So, yes, even the best of us can fall. But they don’t keep falling and they don’t make excuses for their failures.

PS: Money is not the root of all evil. Low self-esteem is.

[This message edited by PlanC at 6:08 PM, June 24th (Sunday)]

Our plight as BS's has nothing to do with the degree to which our WS is saved or a "real" Christian. Our plight and pain is a personal one, without regards to the degree of salvation our WS has or doesn't have.

Every person sins. Period. That can't really be debatable by any sect or denomination. Jesus did not provide a ranked order of sins and which ones doomed you to hell over all the others. If you have ever judged someone, maybe that sin, in God's plan, is at least as bad as cheating. Who knows.

As BS's, the best we can do is hold our WSs accountable for the wrongs done to us and our M's and then make our own determination if their remorse and empathy and sincerity are enough to offer that second chance. Whether or not they are "saved" is no more relevant than a cheater wondering of their BS is saved for any of a dozen other sins we may have committed, that have nothing to do with cheating.

A christian recognizes their sins can be forgiven and with a renewed commitment to Christ's covenants, they can redeem themselves and made whole again, i.e., live the life they committed to.

Yes, however, committing a sin and thinking "well, I just ask for forgiveness after" seems to be the standard practice for a lot of religious people (not singling out any particular religion). That attitude and mindset leads to basically any behavior your want, because, after all, God always forgives.

Adultery is a mortal sin. A mortal sin unequivocally separates you from God. As you knowingly commit a mortal sin, you are no longer true and no longer subject to Gods grace.

I think this captures it best for me, it's not so much about the sin itself as it is the intent. In short, it's the premeditation that makes this a horrible sin. Not excusing it (and its rare anyway), but a woman going out with her friends with NO intention of cheating, having too much to drink and winding up in bed is bad, yes, but it's also forgivable. It's a sin, no doubt, but it's not the same as what typically happens in an A.

A more typical scenerio, H kisses the wife and kids on his way to work, talks about their upcoming vacation over breakfast, perhaps says a prayer for his family, then climbs into his car and TXT's his AP on the way to work "hey sexy, want to meet up in a parking lot somewhere". That's premeditation, it's not the sin of having sex in a parking lot that's difficult to forgive (at least not for me), it's that it's a premeditated thing. They are (the AP's) pulling strings to commit sin; they are making sin happen, bringing sin into this world. Not because of a mistake, or because they made an error. A true believer KNOWS they are doing wrong and then makes choices, 100's or 1000's of them to continue doing wrong. It's very different than the drunk wife at the bar who made one bad decision. And we have this concept in other areas, murder vs manslaughter for example. The thing is, almost all A's are murders, you don't find yourself in situations that are conducive to sex accidentally very often, you have to make that happen (at least one, and perhaps both APs). You are willingly conspiring against your H/W and God. And that, IMHO, is what makes it such a difficult thing to forgive, at least for us, perhaps not for God. The real sin of the A is the lies, it's not the sex, as much as I talk about that, it's the lies that are the toxic thing to the relationship (especially the lies about sex, for a lot of us anyway).

Ride it out,

I think you’re confusing the sin to God vs the sin to your relationship.

You have the power, within your relationship, to forgive or not based upon what you believe or know of the circumstances of the infidelity.

God makes no such distinction. It is a mortal sin, whether it was one drunken night, or seven years.

One may work to again be a true Christian, through Contrition, Penance and Atonement, but you have severed with God when the act of adultery takes place.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 6:44 PM, June 24th (Sunday)]

Rideitout...

A wonderful post.

Thank you for your wisdom.

The following verse I feel is applicable to your question.

1 John 3, 6

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Unfortunately we still are tempted and yield to sin. When in sin we are not part of Christ. By sinning we separate ourselves from God. This is the definition of sin. When we cheat we betray ourselves, our spouses, and God. Our bodies do not belong to us. Without repenting of our sins and seeking forgiveness we are lost. Christ redeemed us. Does this give us a pass to cheat - NO. It is the only way back when we sin.

Well, I think we can all agree that a cheater certainly isn't living their faith.

Greeneyesbluezy...

I love God with all my heart and I’m sure you do too. The difference with me is, I don’t have a rule book of ‘if I do this then I must do that’. All I ask is the forgiveness of my sins.

I am writing to you with no ill.

wounded hank,

Mortal sins and Venial sins are vastly different. Venial sins create a wedge, Mortal sins divest you of Gods grace.

Imperfect contrition can also lead you back.

The question was a true Christian committing infidelity. Once infidelity happens, you are broken from God. Therefore no true Christian can cheat. The act of willful cheating has effectively ended the trueness of the Christianity.

I think about this a lot. WW and OM met at church. OM sent her verses of scripture, talked about how the affair was “God’s plan”. I just don’t understand how two people can break half of the Ten Commandments together and still pretend to have any respect for their professed faith.

I don’t think adultery per se can define if you are a Christian or not. An accountant that is faithful in marriage but embezzles his clients isn’t a true Christian, and there really isn’t a scale that could rate one as two-thirds Christian and the other one-seventh Christian.

What IMHO would define if an adulterer is Christian or not is the reaction once he realizes that his actions are wrong. Once the adulterer acknowledges to themselves that infidelity is morally wrong they should stop. Go forth and sin no more as some bearded guy said. Christianity is IMHO heavily based on free will and the option to choose between the correct moral options and options that might tempt us for all the wrong reasons. A true Christian would avoid wrong choices, but someone striving to be a true Christian would act to make amends and avoid repeating wrong decisions.

Mortal sins and Venial sins are vastly different. Venial sins create a wedge, Mortal sins divest you of Gods grace

Without getting too far into it (as I’m worried this thread is bucking the “no religion” guideline already), this is strictly Roman Catholic dogma. Other sects of Christianity may not entertain such distinctions.

Mouth kept shut,

I certainly don’t wish to cross guidelines. Which is why I reverted back to the original question.