SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No, they are not.

For one to maintain an affair, the ‘sins’ they choose to do are many and plentiful and regular.

Going to church on Sunday and asking for forgiveness cannot cure the adulterer, especially if they are in the throes of it at that time.

Heck, look at the 10 commandments. Even if you’re not a Christian, its a good tool to live by. And I’m pagan. I did grow up Christian.

WH grew up Baptist. He felt he had a better understanding of what being a Christian was.

Uh...no.

WH blew through most of those commandments in one meeting with OW. The only one he has consistently not broken was taking the lords name in vain. I’d also say that the murder one was broken when he killed our marriage.

So, IMO no, you cannot claim to be a Christian while in the middle of an affair.

Old time religion meant you walked the walk or you went to hell. Then religious leaders realized that nobody was walking the walk and because they didn't want to be told they were going to hell all the time they stopped participating in religion and stopped forking over money. This wouldn't do so they cooked up the new testament. Along comes Jesus. Under the new time religion all sins are welcome. Do whatever you want as long as you occasionally tell the big boss you're sorry all will be forgiven. Oh yeah, and he still needs money. A lot of it. Apparently the omnipotent creator of the universe is cash-strapped.

LOL, you might be more cynical than me, but, that doesn't negate the fact that you're right. The most valuable part of the Old Testament based religions is right in the beginning. If we all lived by the 10 commandments, life would be dramatically better for all of us. Don't get all deep into it and start trying to interpret the word of the lord 20 levels deep until you are actually living and practicing the 10 commandments. Honestly, some TINY fraction of us is able to make is a day successfully without breaking 1 of them. So improve there, that's all you really need to do. If you never stood in church for a single day, but lived your life adhering to the 10 commandments as if they were gospel (well, because they ARE), you would live an incredibly virtuous life. Everything beyond the 10C is "advanced material" IMHO, if you're not living the 10C's, don't bother with the rest of it because you're violating the most important part.

Because you all know I love analogies, it would be like an overweight person trying to lose weight and reading research papers on fat metabolism while, at the same time, eating a chocolate cake. You don't need to understand the ins and outs of cell energy usage when you're trying to lose weight until, UNTIL you're doing everything else right. If you're eating really well, exercising regularly and controlling your food intake and you've got a stubborn pocket of fat somewhere, then maybe you need to read and understand more. But the first part is REAL simple, eat less that you burn. No need to go 50 layers deep with medical research, just adopt a diet that adheres to that one "commandment" and you will lose weight. People love to over complicate things, including God, IMHO. 90% of the Bible is stories illustrating the 10C in practice, and showing warnings as to what happens when they aren't followed. It's a book that lays out the "rules" very succinctly, and then spends the next 1000 pages in explanation of why those rules are what they are. People skip page 1, and spend their entire lives interpreting page 2-999. All you really need to do it read page 1, put it into practice, and you'll be FAR better a person than most of the people sitting in bible study arguing about the meaning of some word buried deep in a story somewhere. Yes, it's interesting, and yes, I've done it and enjoyed it. But it's not what you really need to know unless you intend to be a biblical scholar/impress others with your Biblical knowledge. You NEED to know and live by the 10C, the rest will fall into place pretty neatly after that.

And if you wake up today and think "I'm gonna go kill someone" or "I'm gonna go bang my AP today", no, you're not a true Christian. Even if you wake up today and think "Phew, thank Go my BS hasn't found out about that lie". You're premeditating the breaking of a commandment. How can that be "true" to anything except yourself?

As far as forgiveness and redemption goes, scripture is clear. If you don’t forgive those who sin against you, your father in heaven will not forgive you.

I see forgiveness as the transfer of a debt. He owes me a debt he can never repay (and in fact has never even once said he’s sorry for). He owes me this debt. I transfer the debt to God. Now he owes me nothing, but that hasn’t erased the debt. Now he owes God. And God decides what to do with him. I’m free now and don’t have to carry around anger or bitterness, because I’ve given the debt to God. M

I believe I have forgiven wh. I haven’t forgiven ow. I cry every time I think about this in fact I’m typing this with tears in my eyes now. I like hating her. I get something from it. But I know unless I forgive her, my Heavenly Father won’t forgive me. Because that’s what scripture says.

Someone during an A can't possibly a good or 'true' Christian in those fallen moments. However, the path to redemption is very available if someone owns their sins and takes steps toward being a better person.

The tenants of my faith are also very clear to me about forgiveness (Matthew 18:22).

I don't know. I will even go hard agnostic on this and say that it can't be known.

I do know there is nothing that I can do to make God love me more. AND there is nothing I can do that is so bad that God will love me any less.

Paraphrasing from "Gospel" by Greear.

I believe, yes, a person can cheat and be a Christian because one who believes in Christ is a Christian. Is this person "acting in the Christian way" when he/she is having an affair? No. As my mom would say, that person is acting "in the flesh" (meaning....making bad human choices).

I do believe a Christian who is having an affair can come back to the marriage and be an even better Christian. My mom had a married couple for friends and the husband had an affair and treated his wife terribly. At times, flaunting in in her face. She chose to stay and they worked it out. The husband fully took responsibility for the affair and did the work to become a better husband and Christian.

Now, take me for example. I am a Christian. But....the past months I have really HATED my husband. Does a Christian hate? he/she isn't supposed to but we're human. I have even began to think of divorce. Is that Christian? To some...divorce is not what God wants. I am at a critical time in my life and marriage right now. You can read my back story and my past posts to get a better idea. I have no idea what I am going to do just yet.

Double post

[This message edited by whoknows at 12:34 PM, June 26th (Tuesday)]

Has the point been made that Biblical adultery does not include a married man sleeping with a woman other than his wife, unless that woman was also married (to someone else)?

I don’t know where you get that from. Adultery is sex outside of marriage. Nowhere is scripture is it limited to two married people only.

Actually, you are both right.

The definition of adultery does not include a married man having sexual relations with a woman other than his wife...that is, in the OLD Testament. But Jesus did ad that part to the definition.

According to the source I'm using, in the OLD Testament, adultery is sexual relations between a married woman and any man other than her husband.

The NEW Testament, (Jesus) modified the definition of adultery to include sexual relations between a married man and ant woman not his wife.

In other words, Jesus said not only were women bound by their vows, but also men.

But with Jesus' modification, adultery is basically sexual relations with so eone other than your spouse.

Also, Jesus adds the element of committing adultery in your heart...even if it never actually happens.

That, of course, doesn't address the question raised here.

I would argue that Jesus didn’t “modify” it as much as he expanded on it. Women are equal to men in God’s eyes. Different with different roles, but not less than.

I think our limited time here is better spent on being the best Christian that we can be, not trying to figure out whether someone else is a true Christian.

Also, Biblically, in the event of adultery, divorce is permitted but not required.

The truth is, scripture can be quoted to support almost whatever we believe.

In the Bible, it is said both that long hair on a man is a sin, (I am a child of the '60s and my mother quoted that one to me), but also it refers to Samson's long hair as a glory unto him (which I threw back at her!).

When my friend's mother would give her chores on Sunday, and my friend would cite "not working on the Sabboth" (which is actually Friday sundown to Saturday sundown), her mother would cite "children obey your parents."

Silly examples maybe, but IMHO, you can Biblically support practically anything you believe, depending on what scripture you quote, or what interpretation you assign to a particular scripture. And we need to respect each other in that process.

In our situation as BS, I feel the important thing - the thing that BS actually have control over, is whether or not to R. That is OUR choice. We can, but we don't have to.

As far as the question about whether a wayward is actually a Christian, or what their judgement / punishment from God will be - IMHO we need to let that go. It isn't in our control.

That should be let go of, and left to God.

freetogonow...

I stand corrected. You are right. "Modified" wasn't the best word. I liked the way you put it much better.

Freetogonow…

What drove you to start this wonderful thread? I have read everyone’s response and have learned a little from each post. Everyone that responded actually helped me heal a little better.

This site talks a lot about the WS being in the fog. Maybe we as the betrayed are also in some sort of fog called ‘pain’. It’s not healthy but I think about this pain everyday. For me, it’s time to snap out of it and start living and trust God to help me through this mess.

I think that we can all agree that if the ten commandments were followed, this world would be a better place.

Again freetogonow, thank you. Your simple question grew and flowered to help me heal.

As far as forgiveness and redemption goes, scripture is clear. If you don’t forgive those who sin against you, your father in heaven will not forgive you.

I see forgiveness as the transfer of a debt. He owes me a debt he can never repay (and in fact has never even once said he’s sorry for). He owes me this debt. I transfer the debt to God. Now he owes me nothing, but that hasn’t erased the debt. Now he owes God. And God decides what to do with him. I’m free now and don’t have to carry around anger or bitterness, because I’ve given the debt to God. M

I believe I have forgiven wh. I haven’t forgiven ow. I cry every time I think about this in fact I’m typing this with tears in my eyes now. I like hating her. I get something from it. But I know unless I forgive her, my Heavenly Father won’t forgive me. Because that’s what scripture says.

Freetogonow, I can completely relate to everything you typed, and I am so sorry you have been thrust into all the ugliness that is the outfall of an A.

I felt just like you did about the OW not too long ago, and I knew I had to work really hard on this part of the whole messed up situation I was forced into. Bitterness and hatred are such horrible feelings to carry around, aren't they?

What helped me was spending time studying what God thought about revenge, bitterness, and hatred. I allowed His word to convict me of these things, and then I worked on fixing that part of myself. I have several close friends I do Bible study and accountability with, and I had to confess my struggles to them. They prayed for me and helped me deal with these things and held my feet to the fire when it was necessary. There is a book out there by John Bevere called Bait of Satan. It deals with learning to forgive and move on from someone who has hurt you. It was highly influential in my own healing, and it may help you.

Seeing the OW still hurts. But I can honestly say I no longer look on her with the hatred I used to have, and I no longer get high on hanging on to the negative feelings I carried for her. It is like a huge weight was lifted from me. I hope someday it will lift for you, too.

Woundedhank, what prompted this thread is my insistence to wh that he is not a Christian, and his insistence to me that he is.

Let’s do the math. He cheated on me, never once said he’s sorry or asked forgiveness, left me for ow and is currently still married to me while shacked up with her.

There is no evidence of the fruit of the spirit in his life. None. In fact quite the opposite. He is short tempered, cuts corners in every area of his life when he wants to, and is incredibly selfish. He’s not only going astray himself, but he’s leading another person astray too. All to get what he wants.

I say there’s no way he could possibly be saved. He’s deceiving himself. He’s lost.

I see forgiveness as the transfer of a debt. He owes me a debt he can never repay (and in fact has never even once said he’s sorry for). He owes me this debt. I transfer the debt to God. Now he owes me nothing, but that hasn’t erased the debt. Now he owes God. And God decides what to do with him. I’m free now and don’t have to carry around anger or bitterness, because I’ve given the debt to God.

free... ❤️❤️❤️ I love this, thank you for this explanation- beautiful. I’ve been struggling with forgiveness as well, today toward my xFIL/MIL and WH. Everyday is a challenge to surrender that debt.

Wish we could chat sometime ha! Big ((()))

I used to have the wrong idea about forgiveness. I thought it was a task I was expected to go and do, and then report back to God that the task was completed. But one day when I was praying about someone I just couldn’t forgive, God showed me that I needed him to help me with it. I needed to give up my right to the debt, and give it to him. It was never something for me to do in my own.